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etron oil change- X-clean FE, 300V 0W15 combo #4650342
01/29/18 03:26 PM
01/29/18 03:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 282
San Francisco, CA
Flying_A Offline OP
Flying_A  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 282
San Francisco, CA
Hey all,
Did the first service on our A3 etron. Great little car with 200+ hp, nearly 270 lb ft of tq with a DSG gearbox while retaining 25 miles of EV range. Car does about 52MPG with each tank.

Funny thing is, VW recommends a 5W40 VW approved 502 oil (high HTHS, mid or full SAPS) in this plug-in hybrid. With the constant start/stop nature of the vehicle and being a fuel efficient purpose built car, it's pretty strange that this would be the recommendation- pretty much anything but a "fuel economy/energy conserving" oil that most other hybrids use.

So I thought outside the box a bit and went with the Motul X-clean FE 5W30 100% synthetic- VW 502 approved etc. Besides going to a 5W30, this product is also on the lower end of the high HTHS (3.5 mPa.s) scale to promote better fuel economy, hence the "FE" in the name. I also had a 2 liter can of the 300V Sprint 0W15 ester based 100% synthetic I use for short race stints. The 300V VOA's I've seen have a ton of moly in it so it should promote better engine efficiency as well (besides cutting the viscosity of the overall oil change).

Car takes about 4 quarts of oil so I went 3 parts 5W30 and 1 part 0W15 to make my own "fuel economy" and cold start friendly concoction. Based on the TDS's available the oil came out to be:

Vis HTHS: 3.1 mPa.s (low HTHS oils have a maximum cSt of 2.9)
Vis @ 40C: 60.5
Vis @ 100C: 10.3

Basically it comes out to somewhere between a 0W30/5W30 albeit on the thin side.

We use the electric engine about 25% of all miles driven so the gas engine rarely sees long distances or full oil temps. Mainly shorter trips and a lot of in town driving/stop and go traffic. I'll be monitoring with UOA on a short interval to start- excited to see if there are any obvious fuel economy gains.







Last edited by Flying_A; 01/29/18 03:33 PM.
Re: etron oil change- X-clean FE, 300V 0W15 combo [Re: Flying_A] #4650345
01/29/18 03:35 PM
01/29/18 03:35 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,839
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Offline
SubieRubyRoo  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,839
The land of USA-made Subies!
That's an AWFUL lot of money to be playing backyard chemist on. Best of luck...

Re: etron oil change- X-clean FE, 300V 0W15 combo [Re: Flying_A] #4650387
01/29/18 04:32 PM
01/29/18 04:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,412
Florida
Artem Offline
Artem  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,412
Florida
Does the owners manual list the typical approved oil viscosity "range" based on ambient temps? Or does it list 5w40 year round without any other option?

It would be interesting if your mileage does go up, however, I'm sure it would be in the 0.X range and nothing more.


2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart. (thanks Advance Auto Parts for the awesome deal)
Re: etron oil change- X-clean FE, 300V 0W15 combo [Re: Flying_A] #4650391
01/29/18 04:35 PM
01/29/18 04:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,307
NJ
bluesubie Offline
bluesubie  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,307
NJ
I think viscosity at 100C is slightly off?? X-clean FE is 10.0 and Sprint is 5.1.

It's ironic that this car still specs VW 502 while some of the latest S cars are speccing 0W-20 VW 508/509.


'04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Castrol Edge High Mileage
Re: etron oil change- X-clean FE, 300V 0W15 combo [Re: Flying_A] #4650394
01/29/18 04:38 PM
01/29/18 04:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 202
South Wales, UK
Bailes1992 Offline
Bailes1992  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 202
South Wales, UK
I can't help but feel that if the engine in the e-Tron could manage with a low viscosity/low HTHS oil then Audi would have specified it with one. Especially since they now have their new spec based on ACEA C5 which is a mid-SAPS 0W20


'13 Suzuki Jimmny - '16 Dacia Duster 1.5DCi 4WD
'96 LR Defender 300TDi - '12 BMW 320d

Engine Oil - Fuchs Titan XTL GT1 5w40
Gearbox Oil - Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80
Diff Oil - Fuchs Sintopoid 75w90
Re: etron oil change- X-clean FE, 300V 0W15 combo [Re: Flying_A] #4650399
01/29/18 04:45 PM
01/29/18 04:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
It probably won't cause a problem what you're doing, yet I'd go with VW-Audi's recommendation of a 502 oil here while under warranty. There could be a bearing pressure (load/area) issue the VW-Audi engineers see that we don't. ... Any 0w40 you see on the shelf at walmart would do great. {Pennzoil Euro, Castrol Edge, M1, all 0w40}

Re: etron oil change- X-clean FE, 300V 0W15 combo [Re: Flying_A] #4650420
01/29/18 05:09 PM
01/29/18 05:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 282
San Francisco, CA
Flying_A Offline OP
Flying_A  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 282
San Francisco, CA
Thanks for the thoughts. I too was surprised at the new 0W20 approvals on the new S models- I sure would've expected the same for a car like this. Maybe next generation will- the Prius went from a 5W30 to a 0W20 overnight with no change in engine design and my experiment is nowhere close to that drastic of a change.

The 5W30 is a 502 approved oil minus the 0W15 part of course. Audi accepts 0W30 (I can't find a 502 0W30 in the US), 5W30, 5W40, 10W40 as acceptable viscosities and that's why I'm not really worried. Especially the conditions the car sees and the nature of the vehicle- EV range, hybrid start/stop and engine shutdown under coasting etc. OP I can confirm the 5W30 is at 12.1 cSt at 100C and the 300V is at 5.1 cSt.

I just wanted to improve the cold flow characteristics of the oil since that is so tough on an engine and to maximize fuel economy. It's kinda crazy in EV mode, if you get passed a certain throttle position the gas engine will kick on and rev match throttle input. The engine literally will go from not running to 3k-5k RPM if you need it in a hurry and another reason I went to a "lighter" blended oil.

Last edited by Flying_A; 01/29/18 05:10 PM.
Re: etron oil change- X-clean FE, 300V 0W15 combo [Re: Flying_A] #4650426
01/29/18 05:20 PM
01/29/18 05:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
Originally Posted By: Flying_A
The 5W30 is a 502 approved oil minus the 0W15 part of course. Audi accepts 0W30 (I can't find a 502 0W30 in the US), 5W30, 5W40, 10W40 as acceptable viscosities and that's why I'm not really worried. Especially the conditions the car sees and the nature of the vehicle- EV range, hybrid start/stop and engine shutdown under coasting etc. OP I can confirm the 5W30 is at 12.1 cSt at 100C and the 300V is at 5.1 cSt.

https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-06244-0W-30-Advanced-Synthetic/dp/B007G7PUMS and its at your door in days.
The Castrol Edge 0w40 at walmart isn't much different really. They are both VW 502 oils to keep your warranty intact.
The oil viscosity needed is a function of bearing pressure, and unless you're a VW-Audi engineer, I wouldn't 2nd guess what they say. There might be a reason why they say a 0w20 or low-HTHS 5w30 shouldn't be used.
All that moly added via the racing oil should at least add some boundary lubrication protection to fill in the for the low HTHS causing less hydrodynamic lubrication, that is if the VW-Audi engineers can be trusted, and I think they can.

Re: etron oil change- X-clean FE, 300V 0W15 combo [Re: oil_film_movies] #4650439
01/29/18 05:39 PM
01/29/18 05:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 282
San Francisco, CA
Flying_A Offline OP
Flying_A  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 282
San Francisco, CA
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: Flying_A
The 5W30 is a 502 approved oil minus the 0W15 part of course. Audi accepts 0W30 (I can't find a 502 0W30 in the US), 5W30, 5W40, 10W40 as acceptable viscosities and that's why I'm not really worried. Especially the conditions the car sees and the nature of the vehicle- EV range, hybrid start/stop and engine shutdown under coasting etc. OP I can confirm the 5W30 is at 12.1 cSt at 100C and the 300V is at 5.1 cSt.

https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-06244-0W-30-Advanced-Synthetic/dp/B007G7PUMS and its at your door in days.
The Castrol Edge 0w40 at walmart isn't much different really. They are both VW 502 oils to keep your warranty intact.
The oil viscosity needed is a function of bearing pressure, and unless you're a VW-Audi engineer, I wouldn't 2nd guess what they say. There might be a reason why they say a 0w20 or low-HTHS 5w30 shouldn't be used.
All that moly added via the racing oil should at least add some boundary lubrication protection to fill in the for the low HTHS causing less hydrodynamic lubrication, that is if the VW-Audi engineers can be trusted, and I think they can.


I understand your point and if a 0W30 wasn't accepted by VW I would have not gone this route. This still falls within the C2/C3 HTHS requirement and is a 0W30; all which is accepted by VW.

Last edited by Flying_A; 01/29/18 05:40 PM.
Re: etron oil change- X-clean FE, 300V 0W15 combo [Re: Flying_A] #4650705
01/30/18 12:05 AM
01/30/18 12:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 3,027
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Offline
Snagglefoot  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 3,027
SE British Columbia, Canada
What are the details on that cool looking air powered jack system.


If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: etron oil change- X-clean FE, 300V 0W15 combo [Re: Snagglefoot] #4651103
01/30/18 12:22 PM
01/30/18 12:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 282
San Francisco, CA
Flying_A Offline OP
Flying_A  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 282
San Francisco, CA
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
What are the details on that cool looking air powered jack system.


It's a hydraulic powered jack/lift made by Quick Jack. This one is rated for 3500 lbs and was about $1k USD. It folds down to about 2 inches in height so you can just drive over it where you park your car so it doesn't take up any usable space.

Definitely beats jacking all 4 corners up manually!

Last edited by Flying_A; 01/30/18 12:23 PM.

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