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How does PP 5W-20 stack up against M1 EP? #4650315
01/29/18 03:05 PM
01/29/18 03:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 57
NJ
AntDeek Offline OP
AntDeek  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 57
NJ
In a ford Duratec 3.5 I would like to use the best oil possible for this vehicle with seal compatibility to prevent future leaks. From what I understand, M1 EP is the gold standard?

I will always use an FL-500S


2013 Ford Edge - 3.5L V6 Ti-VCT
Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 + Motorcraft FL-500S.
The best oil filter is a good air filter!
Re: How does PP 5W-20 stack up against M1 EP? [Re: AntDeek] #4650325
01/29/18 03:11 PM
01/29/18 03:11 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,832
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Offline
SubieRubyRoo  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,832
The land of USA-made Subies!
They are both really good oils. If you are going by the OLM, shop by price. If you are doing UOAs religiously and are trying to get every last mile out of the OCI, well, then only the UOA will tell you which oil is better for your application.

FWIW, I just went 17.2k on PUP 0W20 and other than slight thickening, probably could have pushed to 20k if it didn't mean changing the oil with my back on the snowy driveway.

Re: How does PP 5W-20 stack up against M1 EP? [Re: AntDeek] #4650326
01/29/18 03:11 PM
01/29/18 03:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,979
Illinois
tig1 Offline
tig1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,979
Illinois
I have used M1 oils including EP for decades. What OCI do you intend to do? I have done 10K for 40 years with very good results. In the last 10 years I have put about 425K using 20wt. in my last 3 Fords.

Last edited by tig1; 01/29/18 03:15 PM.

2007 Ford Fusion 235,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 60K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: How does PP 5W-20 stack up against M1 EP? [Re: AntDeek] #4650329
01/29/18 03:14 PM
01/29/18 03:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,501
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,501
...
Any major brand of oil that meets the specs of your Ford will be fine. There is no best.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: How does PP 5W-20 stack up against M1 EP? [Re: AntDeek] #4650431
01/29/18 05:25 PM
01/29/18 05:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
Originally Posted By: AntDeek
In a ford Duratec 3.5 I would like to use the best oil possible for this vehicle with seal compatibility to prevent future leaks. From what I understand, M1 EP is the gold standard? I will always use an FL-500S
M1 EP is better due to its high PAO content vs. Pennz Plat. Actually the best Mobil1 oil is now their Annual Protection (AP) version, not EP, and AP also has some PAO.
Avoid Motorcraft oil filters because they are made by Purolator, and they all have a reputation for getting a hole in the filter media. No kidding, this is a thing seen a lot in the last few years. Best oil filter is a Fram Ultra, the winner of most comparison battles when it comes to efficiency, cost, construction, etc.

Re: How does PP 5W-20 stack up against M1 EP? [Re: AntDeek] #4650434
01/29/18 05:33 PM
01/29/18 05:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,578
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,578
Idaho
What is so special about PAO ? There are other base stocks that produce less wear.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: How does PP 5W-20 stack up against M1 EP? [Re: AntDeek] #4650506
01/29/18 06:26 PM
01/29/18 06:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 57
NJ
AntDeek Offline OP
AntDeek  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 57
NJ
I intend on 5000 mile intervals I prefer not to take oil too far.

Which one is a group IV oil? Isn’t PP technically group III?

CT8 - people like PAOs because they have much better high temp properties compared to hydrocracked


2013 Ford Edge - 3.5L V6 Ti-VCT
Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 + Motorcraft FL-500S.
The best oil filter is a good air filter!
Re: How does PP 5W-20 stack up against M1 EP? [Re: AntDeek] #4650565
01/29/18 07:13 PM
01/29/18 07:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,183
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,183
OH
Originally Posted By: AntDeek
I intend on 5000 mile intervals I prefer not to take oil too far.

Which one is a group IV oil? Isn’t PP technically group III?

CT8 - people like PAOs because they have much better high temp properties compared to hydrocracked


Well, any PP of the last few years would use a GTL basestock offering good high and low temperature performance.
You're driving a four or five year old machine anyway. What oils has it seen to date?
M1 EP is a perfectly good oil but I don't think that anyone considers it the gold standard.
In terms of preventing leaks, either M1 HM or Valvoline Maxlife would likely be better, but if you have no leaks in a mid-life machine and may never have them then why worry about it?
If and when you see oil leaks, let's talk.
Until that time, on 5K drains use any oil meeting the spec Ford called for and have no worries.
As we often say here, the rest of the Edge will be trash long before the engine dies of any cause related to oil used.


18 Accord Hybrid FF
17 Forester 18K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 96K SSO 0W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i
Re: How does PP 5W-20 stack up against M1 EP? [Re: oil_film_movies] #4650567
01/29/18 07:16 PM
01/29/18 07:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,883
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
irv Offline
irv  Offline
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,883
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: AntDeek
In a ford Duratec 3.5 I would like to use the best oil possible for this vehicle with seal compatibility to prevent future leaks. From what I understand, M1 EP is the gold standard? I will always use an FL-500S
M1 EP is better due to its high PAO content vs. Pennz Plat. Actually the best Mobil1 oil is now their Annual Protection (AP) version, not EP, and AP also has some PAO.
Avoid Motorcraft oil filters because they are made by Purolator, and they all have a reputation for getting a hole in the filter media. No kidding, this is a thing seen a lot in the last few years. Best oil filter is a Fram Ultra, the winner of most comparison battles when it comes to efficiency, cost, construction, etc.


How does it compare to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum?

Also, and not looking to start another oil battle, but I switched over to Pennzoil oils years ago, after using Mobil for years, as I consistently seen on here that Pennzoil oils received better UOA's than what Mobil oils did.

Mobil UOA's always seemed to have higher amounts of wear metals in them compared to Pennzoil oils. I am not sure that is still the case, but it was enough for me to switch over when I did, plus I could consistently find Pennzoil oils cheaper than Mobil oils, which, of course, was a bonus.


2017 Chevy Impala 3.6 L.
2013 Ram 5.7 L Hemi Bighorn QC 4x4
2008 Chevy Malibu 2.4 L Ecotec
Pennzoil Platinum and/or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum in all 3.
Re: How does PP 5W-20 stack up against M1 EP? [Re: AntDeek] #4650575
01/29/18 07:29 PM
01/29/18 07:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
Originally Posted By: AntDeek
Which one is a group IV oil? Isn’t PP technically group III?
CT8 - people like PAOs because they have much better high temp properties compared to hydrocracked

M1 EP and AP are mixed GroupIV/III. (GroupIV is synonymous with PAO.)
Yes PAO is more resistant to high temperature oxidation, which is the reason Exxon-Mobil puts more of it in their premium EP & AP oils, which need to go more time & miles. PAO also has better low-temperature flow properties as well. Its an expensive base oil component, meaning its not there unless it really needs to be there.

Its a little tough to find the evidence there is PAO (aka 1-Decene Homopolymer) on MSDS's.
M1 EP and AP shows its there in varying amounts depending on what weight you have.
Note M1 EP and AP have base oil thats a mix of PAO, GroupIII, and perhaps some GroupV esters.

Pennz Plat MSDS sheets have recently showed they are likely just going with PurePlus (GroupIII+) as the base oil, maybe with a small amount of esters.
An exception might be the BMW-branded SOPUS (Pennzoil-Shell) pureplus-based oil they make for the BMW-Mini dealerships which has to meet LL-01FE or LL-14FE+, possibly requiring some PAO mixed in to meet the tough performance standards.

If you still don't believe PAO is superior to GroupIII, notice all the Mercedes 229.5 oils use it.

Re: How does PP 5W-20 stack up against M1 EP? [Re: oil_film_movies] #4650690
01/29/18 10:56 PM
01/29/18 10:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,449
[email protected] CZ firearm factory
Marco620 Online happy
Marco620  Online Happy
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,449
[email protected] CZ firearm factory
GTL based oil in BMW,Maserati and Ferrari. I'll stick with Pennzoil


15' Civic R18 200,090k 0w20 Redline/Archoil9200/TEIN/Eibach/Injen/Tanabe Sustec/Borla Exhaust!
Going for 238,900 milestone. My house to moon is 238,900 miles!
Son of a Navy Corpsman. Support veterans!


Re: How does PP 5W-20 stack up against M1 EP? [Re: AntDeek] #4650840
01/30/18 07:54 AM
01/30/18 07:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,578
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,578
Idaho
Marketing works so well.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: How does PP 5W-20 stack up against M1 EP? [Re: CT8] #4650899
01/30/18 08:53 AM
01/30/18 08:53 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,920
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,920
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: CT8
What is so special about PAO ? There are other base stocks that produce less wear.


It requires less VII and no PPD's, which means you get more oil and less plastic. The base stock isn't the significant factor to protect against wear, it's the additive package that's important there.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: How does PP 5W-20 stack up against M1 EP? [Re: Marco620] #4650941
01/30/18 09:33 AM
01/30/18 09:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
Originally Posted By: Marco620
GTL based oil in BMW,Maserati and Ferrari. I'll stick with Pennzoil

GTL pureplus GroupIII+ ... with PAO added to meet the tougher specs you mention.
Pennz Plat PP is not the same oil as LL-01FE, LL-14FE+, and the 10w60 Ferrari-spec oil this thread is about.

Re: How does PP 5W-20 stack up against M1 EP? [Re: irv] #4651011
01/30/18 10:34 AM
01/30/18 10:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,920
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,920
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: AntDeek
In a ford Duratec 3.5 I would like to use the best oil possible for this vehicle with seal compatibility to prevent future leaks. From what I understand, M1 EP is the gold standard? I will always use an FL-500S
M1 EP is better due to its high PAO content vs. Pennz Plat. Actually the best Mobil1 oil is now their Annual Protection (AP) version, not EP, and AP also has some PAO.
Avoid Motorcraft oil filters because they are made by Purolator, and they all have a reputation for getting a hole in the filter media. No kidding, this is a thing seen a lot in the last few years. Best oil filter is a Fram Ultra, the winner of most comparison battles when it comes to efficiency, cost, construction, etc.


How does it compare to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum?

Also, and not looking to start another oil battle, but I switched over to Pennzoil oils years ago, after using Mobil for years, as I consistently seen on here that Pennzoil oils received better UOA's than what Mobil oils did.

Mobil UOA's always seemed to have higher amounts of wear metals in them compared to Pennzoil oils. I am not sure that is still the case, but it was enough for me to switch over when I did, plus I could consistently find Pennzoil oils cheaper than Mobil oils, which, of course, was a bonus.


If you haven't read some of Doug Hillary's excellent posts, as well as his article on the value of UOA's on the main page of the site, I'd give it a read. You can't simply compare UOA's between oils to determine which one is "better". That's not the purpose of the tool, which is to determine oil life, contamination levels for condemnation limits, as well as to allow one to potentially glean some insight into machine health and indicate potential impending catastrophe.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
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