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#4648306 - 01/27/18 07:14 PM At the range with ballistic gelatin
clarkflower Offline


Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 721
Loc: US
Forgot steaks and tape measure
2 layers denim
32 Buffalo Barnes no expansion inverted about 13 inches left wad of denim about 7 inches? The other left the gel at 8 inches
Lehigh 15 inches Sadly both the Leigh and Underwood had 2 fail to fire out each of 40. No jams....I shots 1000's of rounds without a fail to bang. I don't know how they consistently manage it. Same result last box and here all sorts of similar reports
Hornady XTP and the hydra shock.. No expansion at all ; 8-10 inches

380 Winchester train defend huge expansion 8 -9 inches (see pic vs Sig..look like a different caliber lol
380 Critical defense expanded but a bit smaller than the sig 11 inches
380 Sig Sauer expanded 13 inches


Buffalo Bore Barnes 38 (non plus p) was very impressive see pic from a 2" colt
Wound tracks below seecamp


Edited by clarkflower (01/27/18 07:25 PM)

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#4648394 - 01/27/18 08:40 PM Re: At the range with ballistic gelatin [Re: clarkflower]
ZZman Offline


Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 5790
Loc: Michigan
Didn't happen without cool video
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#4648658 - 01/28/18 06:30 AM Re: At the range with ballistic gelatin [Re: ZZman]
clarkflower Offline


Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 721
Loc: US
unable..and really this started to see one thing..if the Buffalo Bore Barnes expanded..it didn't
I did get pics http://www.seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1516839758/0#4

Though some old time 38 guys would love the Buffalo Bore Barnes 38 though...

Would love to hear opinions on the Winchester 380.. Just huge expansion but only 8.5 penatration vs 13 on the sig And the same as the tests here https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#380ACP


Edited by clarkflower (01/28/18 06:32 AM)

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#4648676 - 01/28/18 07:03 AM Re: At the range with ballistic gelatin [Re: clarkflower]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4411
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
While we're on the subject of ballistic gelatin, has anyone here worked with it? Is it a food type of product? Does it spoil, get smelly, or soft in warm temperatures? How is it stored, and what is it's shelf life? I have never physically seen it, touched it, or worked with it. But I have always wondered about it. I know the stuff isn't cheap, but it can be used over and over by "melting it down". Is there a limit on that, or does it have an indefinite rework life? Thanks in advance.

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#4648713 - 01/28/18 08:02 AM Re: At the range with ballistic gelatin [Re: clarkflower]
Driz Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 261
Loc: northern NY
Critical defense is what I keep in my LCP. From the tests Iíve seen they look fine to me. Itís about all youíre gonna get from .380 anyways. Remember , as all cops are schooled you never shoot and wait to see how you did. Bull [censored]. Keep banging till the threat is no longer a threat. Far too many dead folks have shot some punk who in return killed them and limped away.
Same goes for the big bore crowd. Donít ever for a second think that your .45 or similar is going to bowl some guy over or you may well be in for a rude awakening. Equally true for a guy with a knife. Plug the puke and get some distance and keep him covered or you may find he will wade right through your next rounds and stab you dead. Itís happened way to many times so itís worth mentioning as most people just donít believe it. As always itís not so much the caliber of that cannon but where you put those rounds even more so with a .380.

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#4648856 - 01/28/18 10:04 AM Re: At the range with ballistic gelatin [Re: billt460]
clarkflower Offline


Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 721
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: billt460
While we're on the subject of ballistic gelatin, has anyone here worked with it? Is it a food type of product? Does it spoil, get smelly, or soft in warm temperatures? How is it stored, and what is it's shelf life? I have never physically seen it, touched it, or worked with it. But I have always wondered about it. I know the stuff isn't cheap, but it can be used over and over by "melting it down". Is there a limit on that, or does it have an indefinite rework life? Thanks in advance.


I bought it from this place and got it in 3 days. https://www.clearballistics.com/product-category/ballistic-gelatin/10-ballistic-gelatin/

It's nothing like Jello. It sat at room temp for 3 days and was very tough. Cutting out the rounds was very hard work with my pretty sharp S&W Swat knife. The knife wanted to bounce off as opposed to just sliding in.

It says I can re-use in by putting it in the oven for 4-6 hours at 255-275 (in a mold)

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#4648857 - 01/28/18 10:05 AM Re: At the range with ballistic gelatin [Re: Driz]
Nyquist Offline


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 967
Loc: Iowa
Best ammo reviews I've seen are here: https://www.youtube.com/user/tnoutdoors9/videos
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#4648865 - 01/28/18 10:09 AM Re: At the range with ballistic gelatin [Re: clarkflower]
Balrog006 Online   content


Registered: 08/09/16
Posts: 469
Loc: West Michigan
I like the CD for my .380 (Kahr P380) compared to everything else Iíve seen tested and tested-Gold dots, Winchesterís, Barnes copper, Rem Gs, PMC Starfire, HSTís, the list goes on-nothing is as consistent and penetrates with decent expansion in bare gel or thru denim. Most of the other loads for .380 out there plug with the denim and over penetrate or go sideways and tumble off because one or two ďpetalsĒ opened but the rest didnít. Hornady CD doesnít plug up or fail to expand-it does not expand 2x or anything but is consistent in expansion and penetration.
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#4648866 - 01/28/18 10:09 AM Re: At the range with ballistic gelatin [Re: Driz]
clarkflower Offline


Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 721
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Driz
Critical defense is what I keep in my LCP. From the tests Iíve seen they look fine to me. Itís about all youíre gonna get from .380 anyways. Remember , as all cops are schooled you never shoot and wait to see how you did. Bull [censored]. Keep banging till the threat is no longer a threat. Far too many dead folks have shot some punk who in return killed them and limped away.
Same goes for the big bore crowd. Donít ever for a second think that your .45 or similar is going to bowl some guy over or you may well be in for a rude awakening. Equally true for a guy with a knife. Plug the puke and get some distance and keep him covered or you may find he will wade right through your next rounds and stab you dead. Itís happened way to many times so itís worth mentioning as most people just donít believe it. As always itís not so much the caliber of that cannon but where you put those rounds even more so with a .380.


I use it too, however I think after what I've seen the sig looks a tiny bit better in expansion and and inch or two on penetration. https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/...798681458172.do



Edited by clarkflower (01/28/18 10:10 AM)

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#4648918 - 01/28/18 11:01 AM Re: At the range with ballistic gelatin [Re: clarkflower]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4411
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: clarkflower
Originally Posted By: billt460
While we're on the subject of ballistic gelatin, has anyone here worked with it? Is it a food type of product? Does it spoil, get smelly, or soft in warm temperatures? How is it stored, and what is it's shelf life? I have never physically seen it, touched it, or worked with it. But I have always wondered about it. I know the stuff isn't cheap, but it can be used over and over by "melting it down". Is there a limit on that, or does it have an indefinite rework life? Thanks in advance.


I bought it from this place and got it in 3 days. https://www.clearballistics.com/product-category/ballistic-gelatin/10-ballistic-gelatin/

It's nothing like Jello. It sat at room temp for 3 days and was very tough. Cutting out the rounds was very hard work with my pretty sharp S&W Swat knife. The knife wanted to bounce off as opposed to just sliding in.

It says I can re-use in by putting it in the oven for 4-6 hours at 255-275 (in a mold)


Thanks!

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#4648984 - 01/28/18 11:54 AM Re: At the range with ballistic gelatin [Re: clarkflower]
Robenstein Offline


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 5653
Loc: Central IA
I know Underwood uses CCI primers which are the hardest ones available in America and can cause some failures to go bang on some guns.
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#4649030 - 01/28/18 12:32 PM Re: At the range with ballistic gelatin [Re: Robenstein]
clarkflower Offline


Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 721
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
I know Underwood uses CCI primers which are the hardest ones available in America and can cause some failures to go bang on some guns.


I had one Underwood with a hard strike, a dent in the primer and no bang.
With the Lehigh some speculate the first click seats the round and the second pull fires it. Mine fired on the second pull.

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#4649547 - 01/28/18 08:49 PM Re: At the range with ballistic gelatin [Re: clarkflower]
bubbatime Offline


Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 5627
Loc: South Florida
Ive shot a lot of gel (and other things)

I dont think you will find a better .380 than Gold Dot.

That's my personnel, professional opinion.

Your looking at 11 to 14 inches of penetration and decent expansion. But that is NOT the only story here. Speer uses premium components, premium low flash powders, premium primers, that the others only dream about. They also load these rounds hot, which is a good thing. That extra 70 feet per second over Hornady and others is good for reliability. A hot round is likely to cycle the action, especially if you have a weak grip on the gun (possible)

Internet gel "experts" look at the gel performance of the rounds they are considering, and nothing else. They dont factor in the quality conrtol, reliability, or other factors.

That's my short opinion, on a topic that I could write 25 pages on.

For .32ACP (if that's the .32 you are talking about), Id find a hot, European FMJ, loaded in Europe to European standard. 32 JHP sucks.

And for what its worth, after my testing was completed, I wouldn't run Critical Defense in anything. I flat out do not like the performance of that round and find it sub-par.
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#4650130 - 01/29/18 12:37 PM Re: At the range with ballistic gelatin [Re: bubbatime]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 6999
Loc: Mahzurrah!
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Ive shot a lot of gel (and other things)

I dont think you will find a better .380 than Gold Dot.

That's my personnel, professional opinion.

Your looking at 11 to 14 inches of penetration and decent expansion. But that is NOT the only story here. Speer uses premium components, premium low flash powders, premium primers, that the others only dream about. They also load these rounds hot, which is a good thing. That extra 70 feet per second over Hornady and others is good for reliability. A hot round is likely to cycle the action, especially if you have a weak grip on the gun (possible)

Internet gel "experts" look at the gel performance of the rounds they are considering, and nothing else. They dont factor in the quality conrtol, reliability, or other factors.



Interesting. I try not to carry .380 but sometimes I must...I use Underwood +P 90 gr XTP's. Almost all my other carry loads are Underwood Gold Dots. Never tried Speer's .380 Gold Dot I will check them out.

I agree with you about the internet gel testing, while interesting and often helpful it has taken on a life of it's own and has created it's own brand of nonsense.

Paul Harrell is much more interesting and conducts tests that are closer to real world IMO.
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#4651082 - 01/30/18 11:56 AM Re: At the range with ballistic gelatin [Re: bubbatime]
NateDN10 Offline


Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 1735
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Ive shot a lot of gel (and other things)

I dont think you will find a better .380 than Gold Dot.

That's my personnel, professional opinion.

Your looking at 11 to 14 inches of penetration and decent expansion. But that is NOT the only story here. Speer uses premium components, premium low flash powders, premium primers, that the others only dream about. They also load these rounds hot, which is a good thing. That extra 70 feet per second over Hornady and others is good for reliability. A hot round is likely to cycle the action, especially if you have a weak grip on the gun (possible)

Internet gel "experts" look at the gel performance of the rounds they are considering, and nothing else. They dont factor in the quality conrtol, reliability, or other factors.

That's my short opinion, on a topic that I could write 25 pages on.

For .32ACP (if that's the .32 you are talking about), Id find a hot, European FMJ, loaded in Europe to European standard. 32 JHP sucks.

And for what its worth, after my testing was completed, I wouldn't run Critical Defense in anything. I flat out do not like the performance of that round and find it sub-par.

With respect to the Critical Defense, are you talking about 380 specifically, or other calibers as well? What don't you like about it - velocity/expansion, or other factors?
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