Amsoil Signature 0W-20, 2015 Tacoma, 10.3K miles

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This is the latest sample from my 2015 Tacoma, which I have owned since new. Looks OK to me, except for the trend of increasing aluminum. Is this a possible problem developing? Some Tacomas of this vintage have been known to make a whining noise when started up cold; the noise disappears after warming up for a couple of minutes. My Tacoma occasionally has this symptom. The whining noise problem is believed to be caused by the oil pump. What are oil pumps made of?

8ppm over 10.3K miles is not a *huge* amount of aluminum, but it is concerning. My plan is to just run another 10K and check then. I do have an extended warranty on this vehicle, which is good for 8 years and 125K miles, so I should be covered if a real problem develops. Comments?

 
Amsoil SS 0w20 has a virgin viscosity at 100c of 8.8.

Blackstone seem to think you're running a xw30.

What is your driving style? If you're running a xw20, it isn't holding up to the mileage you're doing.

In any case, I personally would dial down to 8,000 miles, not increase to 12,000. TAN is pretty high.
 
Sorry, I'm actually running 5W-30. Typo due to force of habit - all my other vehicles run 0W-20.
 
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You mention that you are not concerned as you have an extended warranty. Will that hold up when you show them that the last couple of OCIs have been around 10,000 miles? What does your manual say for OCIs under normal conditions, 7,500 or 10,000? Are you giving them a reason for denial should it come that?
 
OK thanks. If you've always run Amsoil, then I guess it has a high starting TAN.

Which oil did you use in the first 3 uoa's? Either they are 30's that sheared or 20's that oxidized.

What about the 4th and 5th? The 4th seems to have oxidized. Your phosphorous numbers are lower in your longer ocis which can happen when additives wear out. So the 4th uoa is interesting in that regard as it has oxidized as well as having the lowest phosphorous reading.

Which filter are you using? You don't seem to be getting as much life out of that premium Amsoil so maybe better filtration will help.

Your silicon and wear seem higher than normal although Blackstone don't say the mileage for the universal average. Maybe check the air filter?

And lastly, we don't know your operating conditions which might explain everything the most.
 
To answer the questions:


The OCI specified in the manual is every 5,000 miles - so I am running at twice the manual specified OCI.

In all of the above UOAs, Amsoil Signature 5W-30 was used, with a Mobil 1 M1-209 filter. When I have a new vehicle, I run the first few OCIs short to get all the break-in metals out.

This vehicle is my wife's daily driver - generally around-town driving, with occasional highway. We never tow anything.

The engine air filter was changed at about 30,000 miles.

Virgin TAN of Amsoil Signature is about 4.6.
 
Good metal wear rates.
Oil in serviceable condition.
I would personally extend OCI to 12k or beyond, if not for warranty requirement.
 
Guys, correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't TAN be lower than TBN? What am I missing here?
 
Originally Posted By: btanchors
To answer the questions:


The OCI specified in the manual is every 5,000 miles - so I am running at twice the manual specified OCI.

In all of the above UOAs, Amsoil Signature 5W-30 was used, with a Mobil 1 M1-209 filter. When I have a new vehicle, I run the first few OCIs short to get all the break-in metals out.

This vehicle is my wife's daily driver - generally around-town driving, with occasional highway. We never tow anything.

The engine air filter was changed at about 30,000 miles.

Virgin TAN of Amsoil Signature is about 4.6.


Thanks for all those answers.

Amsoil SS 5w30 starts at kv100c 10.3cst, TBN 12.5 & has a Noack of 6.7%.

Your UOAs are showing it shears down to 9.3cst in 2500 miles and at some point after 5000 miles, begins to thicken up.

It looks to me that Toyota have a reason to set the oil change to 6 months / 5000 miles. Maybe by using the top of the range Amsoil, you have been able to exceed this without TBN going to dangerously low levels.

However, the following is what worries me with over extending on this engine. When oil oxidizes and thickens up, it gets worse quickly. In the case of your 4th oci this took place and by 10k miles you had significantly thickened oil and phosphorous dropped. You changed it just after it went into the condemnation range.

If your oil does that again at the 10k mile mark ie reaches the condemnation point, then what would it look like after you put another 2000 miles on it? What deposits would begin to form in your engine? This is where I think both Amsoil and Blackstone are a bit reckless. Amsoil with their 1 year, 25,000 mile claim regardless of any other pertinent factors, and Blackstone with their idea that running TBN to 1 is ok.

I definitely wouldn't exceed 10,000 miles. I'd probably dial it back to 8,000 miles to give me confidence I was draining the oil while it was still doing it's job.
 
Originally Posted By: btanchors

Virgin TAN of Amsoil Signature is about 4.6.


Is this accurate data?

That sounds really high.
 
4.6 does sound high, but I performed a VOA on the oil some time back. This is what it came back as. It's also consistent with the 0W-20 version of this oil, I did a VOA on that as well - so no question virgin TAN is around 4.6. Amsoil just changed its formulation recently, and this TAN represents the earlier formulation (prior to September 2017). The new version may have changed.

Also, I have heard comments from Blackstone in the past suggesting high virgin TAN oils tend to decrease in TAN part way into a change interval, before then increasing as the oil ages in service.

Also - to respond to Matagonka's comment - suggesting condemnation of oil when TAN crosses TBN, I disagree with that, especially for high virgin TAN oils. For these oils, I think it is more valid to look at delta TAN (ABS(VOA TAN - UOA TAN)) and compare that with TBN. In this specific UOA, delta TAN is 2.3 (6.9 - 4.6). Since 2.3 > 2.0, that would suggest this oil has slightly passed its condemnation limit, assuming you agree with this approach to TAN and TBN.
 
Originally Posted By: btanchors
4.6 does sound high, but I performed a VOA on the oil some time back. This is what it came back as. It's also consistent with the 0W-20 version of this oil, I did a VOA on that as well - so no question virgin TAN is around 4.6. Amsoil just changed its formulation recently, and this TAN represents the earlier formulation (prior to September 2017). The new version may have changed.

Also, I have heard comments from Blackstone in the past suggesting high virgin TAN oils tend to decrease in TAN part way into a change interval, before then increasing as the oil ages in service.

Also - to respond to Matagonka's comment - suggesting condemnation of oil when TAN crosses TBN, I disagree with that, especially for high virgin TAN oils. For these oils, I think it is more valid to look at delta TAN (ABS(VOA TAN - UOA TAN)) and compare that with TBN. In this specific UOA, delta TAN is 2.3 (6.9 - 4.6). Since 2.3 > 2.0, that would suggest this oil has slightly passed its condemnation limit, assuming you agree with this approach to TAN and TBN.


Hadn't heard of that method but since it backs up my suggestion to not exceed 10k miles, I can support it!
 
Try Magnetech or Valvoline Synthetic with Max life Technology for a comparsion.
 
Originally Posted By: btanchors
4.6 does sound high, but I performed a VOA on the oil some time back. This is what it came back as. It's also consistent with the 0W-20 version of this oil, I did a VOA on that as well - so no question virgin TAN is around 4.6. Amsoil just changed its formulation recently, and this TAN represents the earlier formulation (prior to September 2017). The new version may have changed.

Also, I have heard comments from Blackstone in the past suggesting high virgin TAN oils tend to decrease in TAN part way into a change interval, before then increasing as the oil ages in service.

Also - to respond to Matagonka's comment - suggesting condemnation of oil when TAN crosses TBN, I disagree with that, especially for high virgin TAN oils. For these oils, I think it is more valid to look at delta TAN (ABS(VOA TAN - UOA TAN)) and compare that with TBN. In this specific UOA, delta TAN is 2.3 (6.9 - 4.6). Since 2.3 > 2.0, that would suggest this oil has slightly passed its condemnation limit, assuming you agree with this approach to TAN and TBN.


When the TAN gets close to 3X the starting TAN, then it is time to change oil.

Starting TAN's high? Well, no, because some of the newer Friction Modifiers in the additive packages have a higher virgin TAN.

However, I am not sure you should be playing 10k OCI roulette's with this engine.
 
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Call me crazy but I own two 2009 Sonatas and really want to see the results if I run the Amsoil 5W30 to its max of 25 000 miles. I dont care about the 1 year limit. Usually I do about 15 000 miles a year.

So far I did several 15000 OCIs on my Sonatas and everything was looking good.
As soon as weather temp rise, I will change the oil, put in Amsoil 5W30 SS and use a Fram Ultra oil filter and go the full 25 000 miles on the oil.

Afterward do 2 UOA reports to see how oil was doing.
Would be nice if Fram could inspect the oil filter to check the filter...
 
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