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#4647694 - 01/27/18 08:00 AM Filter question
RyanY Offline


Registered: 01/25/18
Posts: 95
Loc: South Carolina (SC)
I have lingered here for a while but haven't started a profile, so I would like to start by saying that the information I gleaned from the forum is priceless! Thank you to all contributors.

I recently came acroas a post (from 2004) in a Honda S2000 forum (s2ki.com) and was wondering if this suggestion is worth the cost/effort for daily driven vehicles (see point #7 below):


Quote:

Some UOA's I have seen:
1) M1 is consistently good, but never spectacularly good
2) Royal Purple is also good, but tends to lose its viscosity very fast. It does not appear to be an EDI (extended drain interval) product, its claims notwithstanding.
3) The 0w40 oils will shear down,. no matter what their base stocks are. Keep your viscosity spread as narrow as conditions permit.
4) GM engines have high copper wear rates.
5) Subaru and Honda seem to make the best engines. Surprise!!!
6) Red Line is above average or higher in nearly all testing, including some cars run very hard. It is always a solid choice.
7) It is always a good idea to change the oil filter at the middle of your OCI, with makeup oil. The insolubles in the oil will be reduced significantly.
8) "Performance" aire filters nearly always produce higher silicon levels in the oil.
9) At about 130k miles, either replace your injectors, or be prepared to lower your OCI. Dirt will eventually damage the pintles, reducing volumetric efficiency and raising fuel dilution of the oil. Even the extended drain oils will become thin.
10) The Camry V6 is the toughest engine on oil i have seen except for...
11) ...the BMW E46!!! This engine is not BMW's finest design.
12) If your car is one those European wonders where they will only change the oil when the computer says so, do your own oil changes. I saw a UOA on a Mercedes at 8843 where the TBN was .43 - it had depleted all its additives, leaving the engine bare naked. Even though the computer did finally catch it, had something one awry (like a bad batch of gas) this engine was set up for some high wear conditions.
13) Although base stocks are important, the additives are more so. UOA's show that using an ester (as much as I like them) but forgoing some AW compounds (like moly) in the process is not giving the protection that the base stocks + the best additives (and forget the API) can offer.


Edited by wwillson (01/27/18 10:22 PM)
Edit Reason: Fix quote

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#4647725 - 01/27/18 08:27 AM Re: Filter question [Re: RyanY]
Kira Offline


Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 5406
Loc: Champlain/Hudson Valley
A "Top 13 List"! Thanks.

1) Which oils were "spectacularly good".
2) A RP rep told me they used Mobil1 base stocks and their ad packs were superior. Maybe they're not?
3) Heard that about 0W-30 oils too.
4) My overall feelings regarding GM boil down to "steer clear".
5) I always thought engine quality was "engine-by-engine", not nameplate. My '95 Subaru 2.2 was great. Retro tooled Subaru 2.5's were leaky.
6) Seems to be the case.
7) Never heard that before. It doesn't sound crazy at all. I bet this one will get the most reaction.
8) Gospel
9) I'd love data on that one! I'm using a PEA (Techron) additive to clean my injectors. Hopefully my pintles will avoid being pitted.
10) Take your word for it.
11) see #10
12) File OLM's under "Toys for Cars". Too many variables involved. Start with engine build quality.
13) That's "common knowledge sounding".

Thanks for this list. I'd welcome you to BITOG but I'm not on the welcoming committee.

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#4647727 - 01/27/18 08:29 AM Re: Filter question [Re: RyanY]
Leo99 Offline


Registered: 03/30/14
Posts: 3109
Loc: NJ
Is there data to show #7 is true? How significantly do you need to reduce insolubles for it to make a difference to your engine's longevity?



Edited by Leo99 (01/27/18 08:31 AM)
_________________________
Without data you're just another person with an opinion. W. E. Deming

2003 Corolla 250,000 miles
2004 Rav4 359,000 miles
2015 Camry 59,000 miles

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#4647729 - 01/27/18 08:29 AM Re: Filter question [Re: RyanY]
Snagglefoot Offline


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1905
Loc: SE British Columbia, Canada
I really canít even comment on much here but if guys are so anal retentive they want to crawl under the car to change the oil filter half way through the OCI, why not give the car an oil tranfusion every day before work?

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#4647766 - 01/27/18 08:56 AM Re: Filter question [Re: Snagglefoot]
Dufus2 Offline


Registered: 12/12/13
Posts: 277
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
I really canít even comment on much here but if guys are so anal retentive they want to crawl under the car to change the oil filter half way through the OCI, why not give the car an oil tranfusion every day before work?

Why not just go with a better quality filter? Most quick lube shops use the cheapest product available.
_________________________
ASE Certified in Med/Heavy Truck Service including A9
Heavy Equipment Repair, Fleet Maintenance
Real Cars Rattle and Smoke a Little

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#4647838 - 01/27/18 09:51 AM Re: Filter question [Re: RyanY]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 11212
Loc: Idaho
Change oil and filter ona regular basis and make sure yourun a decent quality air filter and check the in take plumbig is tight. The most important thing about an oil filter is that it doesn't fail. The most important oil filter is the air filter.
_________________________
"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."
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#4647847 - 01/27/18 09:54 AM Re: Filter question [Re: RyanY]
RyanY Offline


Registered: 01/25/18
Posts: 95
Loc: South Carolina (SC)
Thx for the prompt responses. The suggestion is definitely inconsistent with everything I have ever heard, but I dont claim to be an expert (on anything, really). I'm not even sure what these "insolubles" are, other than dirt, and why they would be of concern.
_________________________
2007 Cadillac CTS 3.6L (Pennzoil Platinum HM 5W-30) >115k

2012 Honda Odyssey EX-L (Valvoline Synthetic Maxlife 0W-20) >85k

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#4647855 - 01/27/18 10:04 AM Re: Filter question [Re: RyanY]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 9507
Loc: Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: RyanY
Thx for the prompt responses. The suggestion is definitely inconsistent with everything I have ever heard, but I dont claim to be an expert (on anything, really). I'm not even sure what these "insolubles" are, other than dirt, and why they would be of concern.

And yet you're sure of all those other things?
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 227K
1996 Honda Accord, 262K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 397K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 267K

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#4647871 - 01/27/18 10:18 AM Re: Filter question [Re: Kira]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 19284
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Kira you don't have to worry about pintel injectors. IIRC your car it uses disc injectors. The only way you would cause excess fuel dilution with pintel injectors is if they were either leaking or worn so bad they were dumping fuel at a higher rate the spec, its that simple.
That is probably not happening under 200K with the Honda ones, they can and do get dirty but they can often be successfully cleaned, leak, spray pattern and flow tested to specs and either returned to service or failed ones replaced.

Redline SI-1 contains not only cleaners but corrosion protectors and lubricants that can be very beneficial to this type of injector even in small amounts, running a small dose at every fill will keep them in nice shape for a long time to come.
_________________________
ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.

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#4647876 - 01/27/18 10:21 AM Re: Filter question [Re: RyanY]
blupupher Offline


Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 4475
Loc: Katy, Republic of Texas
Originally Posted By: RyanY
I have lingered here for a while but haven't started a profile, so I would like to start by saying that the information I gleaned from the forum is priceless! Thank you to all contributors.

I recently came acroas a post (from 2004) in a Honda S2000 forum (s2ki.com) and was wondering if this suggestion is worth the cost/effort for daily driven vehicles (see point #7 below):


/start quote/
Some UOA's I have seen:
1) M1 is consistently good, but never spectacularly good
2) Royal Purple is also good, but tends to lose its viscosity very fast. It does not appear to be an EDI (extended drain interval) product, its claims notwithstanding.
3) The 0w40 oils will shear down,. no matter what their base stocks are. Keep your viscosity spread as narrow as conditions permit.
4) GM engines have high copper wear rates.
5) Subaru and Honda seem to make the best engines. Surprise!!!
6) Red Line is above average or higher in nearly all testing, including some cars run very hard. It is always a solid choice.
7) It is always a good idea to change the oil filter at the middle of your OCI, with makeup oil. The insolubles in the oil will be reduced significantly.
8) "Performance" aire filters nearly always produce higher silicon levels in the oil.
9) At about 130k miles, either replace your injectors, or be prepared to lower your OCI. Dirt will eventually damage the pintles, reducing volumetric efficiency and raising fuel dilution of the oil. Even the extended drain oils will become thin.
10) The Camry V6 is the toughest engine on oil i have seen except for...
11) ...the BMW E46!!! This engine is not BMW's finest design.
12) If your car is one those European wonders where they will only change the oil when the computer says so, do your own oil changes. I saw a UOA on a Mercedes at 8843 where the TBN was .43 - it had depleted all its additives, leaving the engine bare naked. Even though the computer did finally catch it, had something one awry (like a bad batch of gas) this engine was set up for some high wear conditions.
13) Although base stocks are important, the additives are more so. UOA's show that using an ester (as much as I like them) but forgoing some AW compounds (like moly) in the process is not giving the protection that the base stocks + the best additives (and forget the API) can offer.
/end quote/
Lots of generalizations and opinions in this post.

  1. M1 is good, some viscosities/types are better than others.
  2. Which RP, they have several different levels of oil.
  3. Not all do
  4. Not all do
  5. Many manufactures make good engines. Subaru and Honda have problem engines as well.
  6. Redline is a good choice, as are many others. Is the cost worth it though?
  7. Honda recommends oil filter change every other oil change on many models. Changing the filter 1/2 way through does nothing.
  8. Not all performance air filters do, just some.
  9. If your using quality fuel, injectors last a long time.
  10. Not sure why they say this
  11. or this
  12. So one outlier is a reason to avoid it 100%
  13. Some truth to this one, but again, still a lot of opinion.
_________________________
1994 Honda VT1100C: Peak 15w-40/TG/2500 mile OCI
2002 Ford F150: GTX HM 5w-20/EcoGard Syn/1yr OCI
2012 Scion xB: QSUD 0w-20/CQ Blue/5k OCI


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#4647905 - 01/27/18 10:38 AM Re: Filter question [Re: RyanY]
Yah-Tah-Hey Offline


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 3475
Loc: Columbus,Nebraska
Nonsense

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#4647937 - 01/27/18 11:24 AM Re: Filter question [Re: Yah-Tah-Hey]
DuckRyder Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 4253
Loc: Atlanta
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
Nonsense


thumbsup
_________________________
Robert
  • 2007 Toyota Prius Touring
  • 2005 Honda Civic Sedan
  • 1972 Ford F100

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#4648091 - 01/27/18 02:57 PM Re: Filter question [Re: RyanY]
burla Offline


Registered: 11/07/16
Posts: 256
Loc: sonoma
Spun Microglass is the only way to go unless you like contamination flowing around your engine @ 30 microns. The only thing this test doesn't tell you is what the filters do when cold, "if" the bypass opens. And the longevity of spun microglass. I have tested my own filters for a decade or better, spun microglass is like new at 14 months, and this very month I will be able to see if it actually looks good at 2 years! pm me if you want that update. As for cold properties of the filter, if you believe the white paper at Machinelube.com then spun microglass not only catches more as the test I posted, but also flows better as oil goes around the spun microglass better and easier then paper.

The 3 filters in order that topped this test , Royal Purple, Amsoil and Fram Ultra, all spun microglass. Of note, wix xp wasn't tested, I'm sure we all wished they would have.


look at the rectangles, the top 3 look pretty good, nummer 4 is a combo filter. It is not a coincidence that the top postions all have the same thing in common, spun microglass.... each rectangle is labeled on the left, the cleaner the rectangle the less contamination is flowing around the engine. Another note, K&N seams to be the best paper filter. But nothing as good as synthetic filters.



Edited by burla (01/27/18 03:02 PM)

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#4648158 - 01/27/18 04:22 PM Re: Filter question [Re: RyanY]
jj51702 Offline


Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 232
Loc: California
Lol at these "suggestions"

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#4648477 - 01/27/18 10:22 PM Re: Filter question [Re: Trav]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6186
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Trav
Redline SI-1 contains not only cleaners but corrosion protectors and lubricants that can be very beneficial to this type of injector even in small amounts, running a small dose at every fill will keep them in nice shape for a long time to come.


Which is why I run Marvel Mystery Oil in my fuel hide
_________________________
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(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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