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How 4WD Helps You Stop on Slippery Roads #4647482
01/26/18 09:28 PM
01/26/18 09:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,213
Kentucky
Ramblejam Offline OP
Ramblejam  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,213
Kentucky

Re: How 4WD Helps You Stop on Slippery Roads [Re: Ramblejam] #4647488
01/26/18 09:34 PM
01/26/18 09:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,179
US-WA
Dyusik Offline
Dyusik  Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,179
US-WA
A 5 minute video when one sentence is in order. "Distribution of power" Not even a full sentence.


95 Cherokee 190K DELO 10W30, XG8
07 IS250 103K Napa 10w30, FULL
04 YZF-R1 19K DELO 15w40, XG7317
99 HD XL1200S 21K VR1 20w50, NG1515
14 RX450h 35k PP MIX, NG7047
Re: How 4WD Helps You Stop on Slippery Roads [Re: Ramblejam] #4647490
01/26/18 09:35 PM
01/26/18 09:35 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 953
Rio Rancho, NM
Pajero Offline
Pajero  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 953
Rio Rancho, NM
Let's see that on ice!





Respectfully,

Pajero!


Always remember "Planned obsolescence."

1994 Montero SR 3.5 DOHC, 133,xxx
Fram Ultra/ Snorkel with Pre-filter
K-9-Co-pilot
Re: How 4WD Helps You Stop on Slippery Roads [Re: Ramblejam] #4647491
01/26/18 09:35 PM
01/26/18 09:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 683
South Carolina
eyeofthetiger Offline
eyeofthetiger  Offline
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 683
South Carolina
Yeah, but it only works with real locked 4WD. So it does not apply to these new fangled AWD crossover whatama doo hickeys with lane assist, auto parking, self braking and bluetooth texting so you can keep your eyes on your phone where they belong.


2017 Ford Fiesta 1.0T - Valvoline SynPower 5W-20, Motorcraft FL910S
1988 GMC K1500 4.3/700R4 - Supertech 15W-40, Fram TG3980
1986 Ford Ranger 2.0 - uhh
Re: How 4WD Helps You Stop on Slippery Roads [Re: Ramblejam] #4647496
01/26/18 09:39 PM
01/26/18 09:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 896
CA, USA
paulri Offline
paulri  Offline
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 896
CA, USA
Thanks for sharing that. I found it pretty interesting.

TL;DR--2WD breaks mainly the front tires, while the rear tires keep moving the car forward. 4WD distributes the breaking power more evenly among the front and back tires, allowing it to stop sooner.

Did I summarize that correctly?


2005 Toyota Sienna LE; 156,000 miles
1998 Honda Civic DX; 202,000 miles
Re: How 4WD Helps You Stop on Slippery Roads [Re: Ramblejam] #4647506
01/26/18 09:50 PM
01/26/18 09:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 868
MA USA
andrewp1998 Offline
andrewp1998  Offline
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 868
MA USA
Tires matter more than anything IMO..


2001 Honda civic HX vtecE- 5 spd,232k+
Re: How 4WD Helps You Stop on Slippery Roads [Re: paulri] #4647508
01/26/18 09:53 PM
01/26/18 09:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 994
Bremerton, WA
DemoFly Offline
DemoFly  Offline
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 994
Bremerton, WA
Originally Posted By: paulri
Thanks for sharing that. I found it pretty interesting.

TL;DR--2WD breaks mainly the front tires, while the rear tires keep moving the car forward. 4WD distributes the breaking power more evenly among the front and back tires, allowing it to stop sooner.

Did I summarize that correctly?

"4WD brakes driven wheels."


Pushrods, please.
Re: How 4WD Helps You Stop on Slippery Roads [Re: eyeofthetiger] #4647515
01/26/18 10:09 PM
01/26/18 10:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,235
Ontario, Canada
IndyIan Offline
IndyIan  Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,235
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: eyeofthetiger
Yeah, but it only works with real locked 4WD. So it does not apply to these new fangled AWD crossover whatama doo hickeys with lane assist, auto parking, self braking and bluetooth texting so you can keep your eyes on your phone where they belong.

Some of the crossovers do have a selectable centre diff lock but often that shuts off at hwy speed.
When my wife first switched from our 03 MT 4x4 Tracker to the AT AWD CRV , the poor braking in snow was the first thing she noticed. One front tire or the other on the CRV would lock up and get the ABS going and you actually have to press the brakes harder to get the other 3 tires to use their full grip. The Tracker with no ABS essentially slowed all 4 tires equally when in 4wd and slowed the tires at a reasonable rate as the engine is also locked to wheel speed with the MT. She ran the Tracker in 4wd with any amount of snow on the road, or even if the road was wet and the system didn't seem to mind being in 4hi for 10's of thousands of hwy miles in the winter.


07 Focus ZXW, 5spd manual, 218km M1 5W30
18 Outback 2.5 CVT 15km 0W20
Re: How 4WD Helps You Stop on Slippery Roads [Re: IndyIan] #4647524
01/26/18 10:20 PM
01/26/18 10:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 683
South Carolina
eyeofthetiger Offline
eyeofthetiger  Offline
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 683
South Carolina
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: eyeofthetiger
Yeah, but it only works with real locked 4WD. So it does not apply to these new fangled AWD crossover whatama doo hickeys with lane assist, auto parking, self braking and bluetooth texting so you can keep your eyes on your phone where they belong.

Some of the crossovers do have a selectable centre diff lock but often that shuts off at hwy speed.
When my wife first switched from our 03 MT 4x4 Tracker to the AT AWD CRV , the poor braking in snow was the first thing she noticed. One front tire or the other on the CRV would lock up and get the ABS going and you actually have to press the brakes harder to get the other 3 tires to use their full grip. The Tracker with no ABS essentially slowed all 4 tires equally when in 4wd and slowed the tires at a reasonable rate as the engine is also locked to wheel speed with the MT. She ran the Tracker in 4wd with any amount of snow on the road, or even if the road was wet and the system didn't seem to mind being in 4hi for 10's of thousands of hwy miles in the winter.


Oh yeah, The CR-V has Honda's "Real-Time 4WD". I had an Element with the same thing. It only engages the rear wheels under throttle, and only when the front wheels slip enough. I had an Element with the same system. It was certainly better than FWD, but is very mild as far as AWD goes. I think the Pilot and some other Hondas have lockable center differentials that work at low speeds. It should have been an option on the CR-V and Element, too.

In fact, I am reminded of my mother recently complaining about her AWD Ford Escape being hard to control when trying to get down her steep driveway in the winter. Even with winter tires, the Escape just can't get down the driveway without sliding all over. She used to have an Expedition, and she would lock it in 4-Low to creep down the driveway with no problem, despite using regular all-season tires. She only got rid of it because it was too big and thirsty. She recently asked me about what new compact or mid-sized SUVs were available with better 4WD systems for her driveway. I had to tell her that there weren't too many left on the market. The Toyota 4-Runner was the only one I could think of with real 4WD and a low range.

Last edited by eyeofthetiger; 01/26/18 10:25 PM.

2017 Ford Fiesta 1.0T - Valvoline SynPower 5W-20, Motorcraft FL910S
1988 GMC K1500 4.3/700R4 - Supertech 15W-40, Fram TG3980
1986 Ford Ranger 2.0 - uhh
Re: How 4WD Helps You Stop on Slippery Roads [Re: Ramblejam] #4647536
01/26/18 10:53 PM
01/26/18 10:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
HoosierJeeper Offline
HoosierJeeper  Offline
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
That or a Cherokee/Renegade/Compass Trailhawk. Although first gear in the 9 speed trans is so low it almost feels like a low range.


15 Jeep KL Limited V6: Formula Shell 5W20
07 LR3 SE V8: Maxlife 5W30
05 Jeep KJ Limited: PHM 5W30
96 Jeep XJ Country: STP HM 5W30 (winter)
Re: How 4WD Helps You Stop on Slippery Roads [Re: DemoFly] #4647542
01/26/18 11:08 PM
01/26/18 11:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Originally Posted By: DemoFly
Originally Posted By: paulri
Thanks for sharing that. I found it pretty interesting.

TL;DR--2WD breaks mainly the front tires, while the rear tires keep moving the car forward. 4WD distributes the breaking power more evenly among the front and back tires, allowing it to stop sooner.

Did I summarize that correctly?

"4WD brakes driven wheels."


Puzzled. Y'all are talking about engine braking, presumably, but I thought y'll drove automatics, which (on my only automatic so far, 2 RWD), gives you very little. Is it specially enhanced in 4WD?

Only driven manual 4WD (Daihatsu 4-track) and never on bad ice, though in snow a bit.

With 2WD on ice, (or any other time, really) didn't use engine braking much. I coast a lot, and I use the brakes to stop the car, because I think that's what they are for, and because they operate on all wheels. I also prefer RWD to FWD generally, and especially when its slippery. .

Expert drivers tell me this is all wrong.

Dunno, but I do know that I've had FWD cars swap ends a couple of times when I accidentally used engine braking in slippery conditions

Re: How 4WD Helps You Stop on Slippery Roads [Re: Ramblejam] #4647565
01/27/18 12:01 AM
01/27/18 12:01 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 11,091
Phoenix, AZ
Nick1994 Offline
Nick1994  Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 11,091
Phoenix, AZ
Yeah, if you dump it in Reverse and floor it grin2

But seriously, that Cherokee doesn't have ABS. Neither does mine, when stopping on a loose gravel road in a hurry in my Jeep, sometimes you have to shake out your shorts. Actually last month I was in traffic in it and cars in front of me stopped real quick, I was going maybe 30 mph and slammed on the brakes, the fronts locked up and I was surrounded with white smoke from the tires, it just kept skidding and I stopped in time.


2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L 88k Motorcraft Synthetic Blend 5w30 & OEM
2000 Toyota Camry 2.2L 231k Valvoline 5w30 & Fram Ultra
1996 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L 147k Mobil 1 HM 10w40 & Fram Ultra
Re: How 4WD Helps You Stop on Slippery Roads [Re: Ramblejam] #4647570
01/27/18 12:11 AM
01/27/18 12:11 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 953
Rio Rancho, NM
Pajero Offline
Pajero  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 953
Rio Rancho, NM
My Montero has slid over black ice on trails (Engineer's Pass out of Silverton,CO) I could hear the ice cracking and of course sliding. I carefully backed down, very very slowly. 4x4 backwards in adverse conditions is always fun.

I recall, at Mt. Rainer (Paradise) down hill, no type of 4x4 system can mitigate ice and physics. Not even a Hummer or 6x6 will fair better. Heavy vehicles tend to slide faster (down hill). I learned that in my Montero.

As the previous poster indicated, tires are what matters. Airing down tires helps a lot. Friction is your friend. Helps in ice, snow, and sand.

I have a rear locker, but meaningless in ice.

For many many reasons; I shouldn't be alive......


Respectfully,

Pajero!


Always remember "Planned obsolescence."

1994 Montero SR 3.5 DOHC, 133,xxx
Fram Ultra/ Snorkel with Pre-filter
K-9-Co-pilot
Re: How 4WD Helps You Stop on Slippery Roads [Re: Ramblejam] #4647610
01/27/18 05:01 AM
01/27/18 05:01 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,031
New England
madRiver Offline
madRiver  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,031
New England
Those drivers at o neill know way more about driving then we could dream about.

I have observed the same thing when I owned a primitive 4wd with power locked together on mud and snow. AWD remember is different and varies amongst car makers. My wife had a full time 45/55 split pure mechanical bliss with LSD rear on her 2005 Subaru Legacy turbo wagon 5mt. She prefers the feeling of control over a modern nanny AWD car like our Acura on snow/ice.


Re: How 4WD Helps You Stop on Slippery Roads [Re: Nick1994] #4647611
01/27/18 05:06 AM
01/27/18 05:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,031
New England
madRiver Offline
madRiver  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,031
New England
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Yeah, if you dump it in Reverse and floor it grin2

But seriously, that Cherokee doesn't have ABS. Neither does mine, when stopping on a loose gravel road in a hurry in my Jeep, sometimes you have to shake out your shorts. Actually last month I was in traffic in it and cars in front of me stopped real quick, I was going maybe 30 mph and slammed on the brakes, the fronts locked up and I was surrounded with white smoke from the tires, it just kept skidding and I stopped in time.


ABS defeats slowing you down in these conditions and gravel.

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