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#4647235 - 01/26/18 05:05 PM Amsoil Signature 0W-20, 2015 Tacoma, 10.3K miles
btanchors Offline


Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 761
Loc: Herndon, VA
This is the latest sample from my 2015 Tacoma, which I have owned since new. Looks OK to me, except for the trend of increasing aluminum. Is this a possible problem developing? Some Tacomas of this vintage have been known to make a whining noise when started up cold; the noise disappears after warming up for a couple of minutes. My Tacoma occasionally has this symptom. The whining noise problem is believed to be caused by the oil pump. What are oil pumps made of?

8ppm over 10.3K miles is not a *huge* amount of aluminum, but it is concerning. My plan is to just run another 10K and check then. I do have an extended warranty on this vehicle, which is good for 8 years and 125K miles, so I should be covered if a real problem develops. Comments?


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#4647247 - 01/26/18 05:15 PM Re: Amsoil Signature 0W-20, 2015 Tacoma, 10.3K miles [Re: btanchors]
CharlieBauer Offline


Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 1174
Loc: CA
Amsoil SS 0w20 has a virgin viscosity at 100c of 8.8.

Blackstone seem to think you're running a xw30.

What is your driving style? If you're running a xw20, it isn't holding up to the mileage you're doing.

In any case, I personally would dial down to 8,000 miles, not increase to 12,000. TAN is pretty high.
_________________________
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that ain't so.

- mistakenly attributed to Mark Twain

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#4647264 - 01/26/18 05:45 PM Amsoil Signature 5W-30, 10.2K miles, 2015 Tacoma [Re: CharlieBauer]
btanchors Offline


Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 761
Loc: Herndon, VA
Sorry, I'm actually running 5W-30. Typo due to force of habit - all my other vehicles run 0W-20.


Edited by btanchors (01/26/18 05:46 PM)

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#4647281 - 01/26/18 06:07 PM Re: Amsoil Signature 5W-30, 10.2K miles, 2015 Tacoma [Re: btanchors]
Spector Offline


Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 3452
Loc: Chattanooga, TN
You mention that you are not concerned as you have an extended warranty. Will that hold up when you show them that the last couple of OCIs have been around 10,000 miles? What does your manual say for OCIs under normal conditions, 7,500 or 10,000? Are you giving them a reason for denial should it come that?

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#4647289 - 01/26/18 06:15 PM Re: Amsoil Signature 5W-30, 10.2K miles, 2015 Tacoma [Re: btanchors]
CharlieBauer Offline


Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 1174
Loc: CA
OK thanks. If you've always run Amsoil, then I guess it has a high starting TAN.

Which oil did you use in the first 3 uoa's? Either they are 30's that sheared or 20's that oxidized.

What about the 4th and 5th? The 4th seems to have oxidized. Your phosphorous numbers are lower in your longer ocis which can happen when additives wear out. So the 4th uoa is interesting in that regard as it has oxidized as well as having the lowest phosphorous reading.

Which filter are you using? You don't seem to be getting as much life out of that premium Amsoil so maybe better filtration will help.

Your silicon and wear seem higher than normal although Blackstone don't say the mileage for the universal average. Maybe check the air filter?

And lastly, we don't know your operating conditions which might explain everything the most.
_________________________
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that ain't so.

- mistakenly attributed to Mark Twain

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#4647312 - 01/26/18 06:31 PM Re: Amsoil Signature 5W-30, 10.2K miles, 2015 Tacoma [Re: btanchors]
btanchors Offline


Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 761
Loc: Herndon, VA
To answer the questions:


The OCI specified in the manual is every 5,000 miles - so I am running at twice the manual specified OCI.

In all of the above UOAs, Amsoil Signature 5W-30 was used, with a Mobil 1 M1-209 filter. When I have a new vehicle, I run the first few OCIs short to get all the break-in metals out.

This vehicle is my wife's daily driver - generally around-town driving, with occasional highway. We never tow anything.

The engine air filter was changed at about 30,000 miles.

Virgin TAN of Amsoil Signature is about 4.6.

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#4647358 - 01/26/18 07:07 PM Re: Amsoil Signature 5W-30, 10.2K miles, 2015 Tacoma [Re: btanchors]
zeng Offline


Registered: 09/01/15
Posts: 2098
Loc: Malaysia
Good metal wear rates.
Oil in serviceable condition.
I would personally extend OCI to 12k or beyond, if not for warranty requirement.

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#4647421 - 01/26/18 08:21 PM Re: Amsoil Signature 5W-30, 10.2K miles, 2015 Tacoma [Re: btanchors]
Matagonka Offline


Registered: 02/03/15
Posts: 458
Loc: NC
Guys, correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't TAN be lower than TBN? What am I missing here?

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#4647583 - 01/27/18 01:06 AM Re: Amsoil Signature 5W-30, 10.2K miles, 2015 Tacoma [Re: btanchors]
CharlieBauer Offline


Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 1174
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: btanchors
To answer the questions:


The OCI specified in the manual is every 5,000 miles - so I am running at twice the manual specified OCI.

In all of the above UOAs, Amsoil Signature 5W-30 was used, with a Mobil 1 M1-209 filter. When I have a new vehicle, I run the first few OCIs short to get all the break-in metals out.

This vehicle is my wife's daily driver - generally around-town driving, with occasional highway. We never tow anything.

The engine air filter was changed at about 30,000 miles.

Virgin TAN of Amsoil Signature is about 4.6.


Thanks for all those answers.

Amsoil SS 5w30 starts at kv100c 10.3cst, TBN 12.5 & has a Noack of 6.7%.

Your UOAs are showing it shears down to 9.3cst in 2500 miles and at some point after 5000 miles, begins to thicken up.

It looks to me that Toyota have a reason to set the oil change to 6 months / 5000 miles. Maybe by using the top of the range Amsoil, you have been able to exceed this without TBN going to dangerously low levels.

However, the following is what worries me with over extending on this engine. When oil oxidizes and thickens up, it gets worse quickly. In the case of your 4th oci this took place and by 10k miles you had significantly thickened oil and phosphorous dropped. You changed it just after it went into the condemnation range.

If your oil does that again at the 10k mile mark ie reaches the condemnation point, then what would it look like after you put another 2000 miles on it? What deposits would begin to form in your engine? This is where I think both Amsoil and Blackstone are a bit reckless. Amsoil with their 1 year, 25,000 mile claim regardless of any other pertinent factors, and Blackstone with their idea that running TBN to 1 is ok.

I definitely wouldn't exceed 10,000 miles. I'd probably dial it back to 8,000 miles to give me confidence I was draining the oil while it was still doing it's job.
_________________________
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that ain't so.

- mistakenly attributed to Mark Twain

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#4647593 - 01/27/18 02:03 AM Re: Amsoil Signature 5W-30, 10.2K miles, 2015 Tacoma [Re: btanchors]
FZ1 Offline


Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 4727
Loc: Texas
Looks good to me. I would think 10,000 oci max. .02.

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#4647604 - 01/27/18 04:35 AM Re: Amsoil Signature 5W-30, 10.2K miles, 2015 Tacoma [Re: btanchors]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 5724
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: btanchors

Virgin TAN of Amsoil Signature is about 4.6.


Is this accurate data?

That sounds really high.
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4647779 - 01/27/18 09:07 AM Re: Amsoil Signature 5W-30, 10.2K miles, 2015 Tacoma [Re: btanchors]
btanchors Offline


Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 761
Loc: Herndon, VA
4.6 does sound high, but I performed a VOA on the oil some time back. This is what it came back as. It's also consistent with the 0W-20 version of this oil, I did a VOA on that as well - so no question virgin TAN is around 4.6. Amsoil just changed its formulation recently, and this TAN represents the earlier formulation (prior to September 2017). The new version may have changed.

Also, I have heard comments from Blackstone in the past suggesting high virgin TAN oils tend to decrease in TAN part way into a change interval, before then increasing as the oil ages in service.

Also - to respond to Matagonka's comment - suggesting condemnation of oil when TAN crosses TBN, I disagree with that, especially for high virgin TAN oils. For these oils, I think it is more valid to look at delta TAN (ABS(VOA TAN - UOA TAN)) and compare that with TBN. In this specific UOA, delta TAN is 2.3 (6.9 - 4.6). Since 2.3 > 2.0, that would suggest this oil has slightly passed its condemnation limit, assuming you agree with this approach to TAN and TBN.

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#4647795 - 01/27/18 09:23 AM Re: Amsoil Signature 5W-30, 10.2K miles, 2015 Tacoma [Re: btanchors]
Artem Offline


Registered: 10/30/10
Posts: 5088
Loc: Florida
Yea that's a lot of TAN vs TBN. Interesting...
_________________________
2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart.

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#4647873 - 01/27/18 10:20 AM Re: Amsoil Signature 5W-30, 10.2K miles, 2015 Tacoma [Re: btanchors]
johnD2 Offline


Registered: 04/11/16
Posts: 77
Loc: West Central , FL
Maybe I missed it. How many miles are on this tacoma ?
_________________________
2000 Silverado Short Wheelbase 4.8 L 4x4
Wix 51522 / PYB 10W40
2016 F150 crew cab 5.0 2WD
Fram Ultra XG10575 / PP 5W20


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#4647877 - 01/27/18 10:21 AM Re: Amsoil Signature 5W-30, 10.2K miles, 2015 Tacoma [Re: johnD2]
SatinSilver Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 9760
Loc: OH
Originally Posted By: johnD2
Maybe I missed it. How many miles are on this tacoma ?


40k.
_________________________
2012 Toyota Camry 72k-Idemitsu 0w20,OEM filter, RT43s.
2005 Toyota Matrix 135k miles - VWB 5w30 conv, Valvoline oil filter. Nokian eNTYRES.

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