definition of short trip for a motorcycle

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i'm well aware of problems with short trips in a car and I define short trip as less than 5-10 miles (in mild climate).

now, how about a motorcycle? specifically i'm thinking 250cc, 4-cycle, water cooled, with 1.6 qts oil capacity?

thanks!
 
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Well what is your actual concern? Are you concerned with moisture accumulation due to the engine not reaching high enough temperatures often enough?

For street bikes this is typically less of a concern because they aren't usually ridden in wet weather and they are often stored in dry locations. Now there are undoubtedly exceptions to those conditions, but I'd say a large majority of bikes are ridden and stored dry.

Do you have reason to be concerned about moisture in your bike or are you asking in regards to a different potential issue?
 
the concern is my son uses his bike in town for small distances. if this was a car, i would say that's short tripping and oil should be changed more often. i know nothing about bikes and hence i ask the question. according to honda oil should be changed every 8000 miles or 12 months. it's stored outdoors, if it makes a difference (he is a student living in a dorm).
 
Well then if it isn't being stored dry, only doing short trips would warrant more frequent oil changes, yes.

I wouldn't say 10 miles is a "short" trip though for a bike. They get up to temperature pretty fast. The sumps are small enough that there isn't a whole lot of oil to heat. If he is doing 10 miles daily or at least fairly regularly, I would think that should be enough to keep the moisture content low enough to not be overly worried about it.
 
Bikes that don't get warmed up do get condensation in the oil. I have seen it on different bikes ridden in cool weather..I suppose a small liquid cooled bike engine would be fully warmed up about the same as a small car...If the young man flogs the bike it'll warm up faster.....But flogging a cold engine is not so good...
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I have done a 3.6 mile commute year round for over 10 years. 473cc with oil run low at 1.8 L.

Summer is OK but even then the oil doesn't really get hot enough. Winter, you don't want to know how low the oil temperature is. I vent the crankcase overnight to let the moisture evaporate and change the oil at 1000 miles.

Air cooled engines only need a very short run before they carburate properly but in terms of oil temperature rise I think they are no better than cars. It doesn't help that my engine is probably too efficiently cooled by those cylinder struck out in the breeze.
 
I won't pull the bike out of the garage unless I plan on putting at least 50 miles on it. Especially in the winter. Too much to go thru getting all the heavy clothes on for a 10 minute ride.,,,
 
I would say anything less than 2 miles on a bike is a short trip. I would change the oil at least every 4k (or probably 2k) miles. but I'm sure that's overkill.
 
My scooter does a 3km trip everyday to work. Just gotta love a 2 stroke for lack of maintenance. I have a 150cc air cooled 4 stroke, it holds 2 litres of oil and the oil never warms up no matter how long I ride it.
 
Only way to really know if the oil gets up to temperature is to install an oil temperature gauge.

What kind of miles are those 5-10 miles? 5-10 miles of stop and go traffic will get the oil nice and hot. 5-10 miles of highway riding, not so much.
 
I would not wait 8000 miles in those driving conditions. I would say 4000 miles or 1 year max if you at least take it out on a long ( If no long ride, every 4000 miles or 6 months.
Or when you notice shifting starting to get clunky or hard to find neutral (this is a big indicator, regardless of mileage).
I forgot who said it here, but "let your left foot decide when it is time to change the oil" is a good rule.

My bike gets a lot of short trips (3 miles each way to work, I can still put my hand on the side cover when I shut it down). I do make regular longer trips at least weekly most of the time.
With that, I decided on a 2500-3000 mile interval with conventional or syn blend oils, may stretch it to 4000 if I use a full syn. I do have a larger bike than the OP, as well as a larger oil capacity (1100cc and ~3.5 qt capacity).
 
previous bike was a 2006 honda shadow 750 that was liquid cooled & sat/stored outdoors; it was notoriously cold blooded and took a long time to get fully warmed up...the longest oil change interval I ever did with it was 2700-2800 miles; my pattern was 750-1000 miles on the oil that was in during late autumn-winter-early spring riding & storage, 1 or 2 oil changes during riding season with 2000-2500 mile intervals, and another oil change in mid to late October for some riding & off season storage; being a DIYer helps keep costs down so doing more frequently doesn't break the bank; I know the tree huggers frown on not using an oil to its fullest potential and I plan to lengthen my OCI's to reduce using resources...
 
I try to ride my motorcycles (currently a Super Tenere and a Kawasaki Versys-X 300) at least 20 miles or 30 minutes every two weeks. I have done this for many years with various motorcycles and has worked good for me.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
i'm well aware of problems with short trips in a car and I define short trip as less than 5-10 miles (in mild climate).

now, how about a motorcycle? specifically i'm thinking 250cc, 4-cycle, water cooled, with 1.6 qts oil capacity?

thanks!


Its most likely in the owners manual, most times in the OCI part of the manual, there will be reference to 'Notes" 1, 4, etc
Its really no different then an automobile, short trips and out of the ordinary conditions, also when you know the oil is not getting up to FULL operating conditions.

Example, this is right out the Harley Davidson owners manual for my 2014 touring bike, most people do not know this statement exists under "Notes" as it is for most bikes.

"1. Perform annually or at specified intervals, whichever comes first"

"2. Perform maintenance more frequently in severe riding conditions such as extreme temperatures, dusty environment, mountainous or rough roads, long storage conditions, short runs, heavy stop/go traffic or poor fuel quality"

_______

Also in the manual there is a Winter Lubrication Paragraph -
" Change engine oil often in colder climates. If motorcycle is frequently used for trips less then 15 miles, in ambient temperatures below 60 (degrees)F reduce oil change intervals to 1500 mi (2400km)"

_________

Another interesting note in the manual - (I have also seen the reference about not switching brands in other motorcycle manufacturers manuals as well)

"Notice"
"Do not switch lubricant brands indiscriminately because some lubricants interact chemically with mixed. Use of inferior lubricants can damage the engine."
 
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Since 2002 I've owned 6 different Harley's that were ridden year round. Thru the Summer heat and Winter cold. I noticed what you've posted, a Winter Lubrication Paragraph -
" Change engine oil often in colder climates. If motorcycle is frequently used for trips less then 15 miles, in ambient temperatures below 60 (degrees)F reduce oil change intervals to 1500 mi (2400km)". So I have to ask, what exactly is supposed to happen to your bike if you don't spend more money at the Harley dealer buying oil and changing it at 1500 miles?. I've never had any issues in the Winter by not changing oil way to often. The manual doesn't even say what could happen. Warm oil with 1500 miles on it will look like new if you drain it out. I'm pretty sure that if you warmed it up properly ,drained it and sent a sample for analysis it would come back fine with lots of life left in it. I never read a report that said, good thing you changed it out now , that cold weather really put a hurtin on your oil.,,,
 
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Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Since 2002 I've owned 6 different Harley's that were ridden year round. Thru the Summer heat and Winter cold. I noticed what you've posted, a Winter Lubrication Paragraph -
" Change engine oil often in colder climates. If motorcycle is frequently used for trips less then 15 miles, in ambient temperatures below 60 (degrees)F reduce oil change intervals to 1500 mi (2400km)". So I have to ask, what exactly is supposed to happen to your bike if you don't spend more money at the Harley dealer buying oil and changing it at 1500 miles?. I've never had any issues in the Winter by not changing oil way to often. The manual doesn't even say what could happen. Warm oil with 1500 miles on it will look like new if you drain it out. I'm pretty sure that if you warmed it up properly ,drained it and sent a sample for analysis it would come back fine with lots of life left in it. I never read a report that said, good thing you changed it out now , that cold weather really put a hurtin on your oil.,,,
My manual does say what will happen!

[ Water vapor is a normal by-product of combustion in any engine. In freezing weather this water will become slush or ice and, if allowed to accumulate too long, may block the oil lines and cause damage to the engine. If the engine is run frequently and allowed to thoroughly warm up, most of this water will become vapor again and will be blown out through the crankcase breather. If the engine is not run frequently and allowed to thoroughly warm up, this water will accumulate, mix with the engine oil and form a sludge that is harmful to the engine.] Hop on your bike, ride three miles to the bar, come back 2 hours later, hop on your bike ride three miles back home 5 days a week...bad! Take the 25 mile scenic route each way....good! Of course, no drinking while you're in the bar. Harley guys don't need that stigma!
 
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I guess it's possible that the carnage stated by Harley could happen, but I have never or nobody I know has ever had that problem. It may have been a problem in 1936 when the oil of those days were more susceptible do freezing. Although I knew guy who used to ride in the winter and had a strange ritual. Every time He started his bike , he would take a shot, and pour one shot into the gas tank. I can tell ya that motor never froze.,,
 
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