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Saab 2.8T V6 Royal Purple 0W-40 #4644860
01/24/18 12:01 PM
01/24/18 12:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4
Anacortes, WA
Artfulkatana Offline OP
Artfulkatana  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4
Anacortes, WA
Long time lurker, first time poster.
I purchased this Aero at 108,XXX miles and immediately performed coolant flush, oil change (to RP 0W-40 w/ Napa Gold Filter), Spark Plugs, etc. All standard serviceable items. I found the usual discrepancies; incorrect coils, plugs, filter etc.

I ran the oil for 5,756 miles. I don't like running over 6k, and since I drive a lot, I don't personally have a time limitation on oils. My bike won't go past 4, maybe 5 months if the weather is bad and I don't ride.

I chose RP because I have had a horrendous experience with Mobile in another Saab of mine (1985 900 Turbo) and will never repeat that mistake. I fell for the Amsoil sales pitch and put in 0W-30 Signature after this Royal Purple, which I just can't justify the price for with so many other options meeting and exceeding GM-LL-A-25 / Dexos2. I'll ask about that later as well. Not quite sold on Pennzoil Platinum, but still looking.

No oil additives in this one, only fuel. Seafoam and Chevron Techron cleaning. I have used ASL CamGuard in aircraft for years and have seen astonishing results. Doesn't mean I don't see Lycoming engines failing left and right (because the suck), but overall durability and corrosion resistance really shines in those engines when I have to replace cylinders or perform other functions. I think I will add some CamGuard after I see the next oil report.

I apologize for the format, I read the first sticky on the oil analysis thread and don't have a comparison yet to make a nice format.

MI/HR On Oil 5,756
MI/HR On Unit 114,132
Sample Date 07JAN18

Aluminum 2
Chromium 0
Iron 7
Copper 101
Lead 61
Tin 0
Molybdenum 65
Nickle 0
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 0
Boron 54
Silicon 9
Sodium 6
Calcium 1835
Magnesium 14
Phosphorus 715
Zinc 832
Barium 0

SUS Viscosity @ 210F : 65.0
cST Viscosity @ 100C : 11.62
Flashpoint in F : 440
Fuel % :<0.5
Antifreeze & Water : 0.0
Insolubles % :0.2


So I am concerned with the copper, as is stated in Blackstone's report. The lead in the mix indicates to me that the previous owner/s may have used additives in the oil. Upon breakdown and inspection of the filter, I didn't see anything alarming. No massive carbon deposits and no metallic slivers or flakes like I've seen in my old Saab or various aircraft over the years. I will have a better idea upon my next analysis (I have 3,500 miles left before change). I've read that GM engines have more copper than others, and this being an LP9 I could almost understand that. Wrist pin bushings and such. Also read into seepage from the oil cooler? Around the Saab forums I've run into a few who have been changing the stock oil cooler to run remotely, which would be my preference. Difficult since the cooler also runs coolant through the oil cooler to decrease warmup time. Logical, but I'm still going to wait the 5 or so minutes for a proper warmup. Rapid metal expansion and contraction should be avoided at all costs.

With a noticeable lack of other metals (looking at chromium mostly), I wouldn't quite say my bearing wear is a cause of concern, but if my next report comes out similar, I need to start looking at options.

Re: Saab 2.8T V6 Royal Purple 0W-40 [Re: Artfulkatana] #4644878
01/24/18 12:23 PM
01/24/18 12:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,003
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,003
MN
Saabs are incredible fun to drive! I think the 2.8T was in 2006 to 2010 models, so your model year is in that range. Good UOA there, no problems.
I'd maybe use a walmart 5-quart jug Castrol black jug Edge 0w40 which meets the very high standard of Mercedes 229.5.
The Amsoil 0w30 does meet the minimum HTHS spec though, so you are good there, but the value, like you say, isn't good.
No really bad choices.
I might just put in Valvoline Maxlife full-synthetic 5w30 which does meet dexos1 Gen2, plenty of spec'ed protection and some extra seal conditioners to keep leaks from happening in the future.


Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
To the original poster, welcome to the BITOG. thumbsup

You have not specified model year, but I believe the Corsa in question is still relatively new. Up until the mid 2000s, a 15,000 km/1 year drain interval was what Opel recommended. Having said that, the GM-LL-A-025 specification basically requires the following:

HTHS viscosity: >2.9 cSt
Viscosity classification: 0W-30, 5W-30, 0W-40 or 5W-40
NOACK: <11.5 wt%
TBN: >10.5 mg KOH/ g
Sulfated ash content: < 1.6 wt%

So these are things you may wish to look for in a product data sheet. The GM-LL-B-025 specification is actually quite close. The only differences are:

HTHS viscosity: >3.5 cSt
TBN: > 9.0 mg KOH/ g

Looking at the specifications of Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40, there isn't information available on NOACK, TBN and sulfated ash content, so if there's anybody in the know, I hope they chime in.

That said, as others have mentioned, I see no problems using Helix Ultra and following the old service recommendation. But if you really wish to step up to 30,000 km intervals, Mobil 1 0W-40 is a great choice, meeting GM-LL-A-025. Is this readily available in your area?

Re: Saab 2.8T V6 Royal Purple 0W-40 [Re: Artfulkatana] #4644889
01/24/18 12:32 PM
01/24/18 12:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,003
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,003
MN
Because its a cartridge oil filter, your choice of Napa Gold was pretty good. (For canned oil filters, its almost always Fram Ultra.)
You could improve the filtering efficiency slightly if you get a Fram XG8765 or TG8765, or maybe a Mobil1 oil filter.

Lead and copper may mean some crank bearings are beginning to go. All you can do is just listen for knocking noises. That part of a UOA is advisory-only. No action possible unless you want to go the expense of replacing the lead-copper layers in the crank and rod bearings. "In addition to the supporting steel back, tri-metal bearings have an intermediate layer made of a copper alloy containing 20-25% of lead as a solid lubricant and 2-5% of tin as a strengthening additive. " from http://kingbearings.com/files/Engine_Bearing_Materials.pdf

Last edited by oil_film_movies; 01/24/18 12:39 PM.
Re: Saab 2.8T V6 Royal Purple 0W-40 [Re: Artfulkatana] #4644908
01/24/18 12:55 PM
01/24/18 12:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,868
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,868
Kalifornia Kollective
Did you do a pan drop and clean the oil pump pick-up? These are known to possibly have coking issues because of the close proximity of the CAT. Aero is a very nice car smile

It does not get that cold where you are, so maybe try Rotella T6 (5W-40) if you want a less expensive option for oil... That's what I ran in my 2.3t right up until I sold it a few months ago. Worked fine smile


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Saab 2.8T V6 Royal Purple 0W-40 [Re: BrocLuno] #4644979
01/24/18 02:16 PM
01/24/18 02:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4
Anacortes, WA
Artfulkatana Offline OP
Artfulkatana  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4
Anacortes, WA
Pan drop is not necessary for any B207 or B284 engine as the exhaust doesn't run down the pan. Taking off the pan on this engine also requires removal of the timing cover and a few other components. No time or desire really.


I thought Fram filters were a BIG no-no? I have always used WixXp or Napa Gold (same, obviously) My experience with mobile makes me never want to touch one of their products again, so that filter choice isn't really something I will consider. I'm too stubborn on Mobile now.

Last edited by Artfulkatana; 01/24/18 02:17 PM.

2006 Saab 93SS Aero (Super Corsair)
2003 Saab 93SS (StationAir)
1985 Saab 900 Turbo (Sky Train)
Re: Saab 2.8T V6 Royal Purple 0W-40 [Re: Artfulkatana] #4644980
01/24/18 02:17 PM
01/24/18 02:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 31
Chester County/Pa.
Dobbie Offline
Dobbie  Offline
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 31
Chester County/Pa.
Why the Camguard? Many peoples belief on BITOG is that -- no need these days for oil additives with the quality of good synthetic & conventional oils on the market that do a superb job of cleaning & protecting engines.

Re: Saab 2.8T V6 Royal Purple 0W-40 [Re: Artfulkatana] #4644993
01/24/18 02:29 PM
01/24/18 02:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,905
Upper Midwest
kschachn Online content
kschachn  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,905
Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: Artfulkatana
I thought Fram filters were a BIG no-no? I have always used WixXp or Napa Gold (same, obviously) My experience with mobile makes me never want to touch one of their products again, so that filter choice isn't really something I will consider. I'm too stubborn on Mobile now.

Are we just trolling around or?


1994 BMW 530i, 228K
1996 Honda Accord, 263K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 400K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 271K
Re: Saab 2.8T V6 Royal Purple 0W-40 [Re: Artfulkatana] #4645072
01/24/18 04:00 PM
01/24/18 04:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,003
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,003
MN
Originally Posted By: Artfulkatana
I thought Fram filters were a BIG no-no? I have always used WixXp or Napa Gold (same, obviously) My experience with mobile makes me never want to touch one of their products again, so that filter choice isn't really something I will consider. I'm too stubborn on Mobile now.
Fram was a no-no back about 12 years ago, but someone at that company really turned it around. Have confidence in Fram. ...
What exactly makes you hate M1 oil? They've always used decent base oils with good add packs, so I don't understand.

WixXP=NAPAplatinum and Wix=NAPAgold. All Wix products are OK, but they all lag behind in filtering efficiency compared to Fram/M1/Amsoil/RoyPurp oil filters. (Really avoid anything Purolator or Motorcraft, as they can get holes in them.)
Originally Posted By: Dobbie
Why the Camguard?
No need for Camguard. Well engineered oil is all you need.

Re: Saab 2.8T V6 Royal Purple 0W-40 [Re: Artfulkatana] #4645103
01/24/18 04:23 PM
01/24/18 04:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,551
Indiana
farrarfan1 Offline
farrarfan1  Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,551
Indiana
It's Mobil, not Mobile. Never have understood why some people call it Mobile.


If laughter is the best medicine, then why do sick people go to doctors instead of comedians?
Re: Saab 2.8T V6 Royal Purple 0W-40 [Re: Artfulkatana] #4645151
01/24/18 05:13 PM
01/24/18 05:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4
Anacortes, WA
Artfulkatana Offline OP
Artfulkatana  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4
Anacortes, WA
I'm not trolling about Mobil, it ruined the bottom end of one of my 900 Turbos, ruined the bottom end of a racing prosche buddy of mine on the east coast, and a few in the Saab community have had bad issues with Mobil. Not trolling. Thankfully Mobil fixed the problem for me, but I won't use their products anymore.


I was not aware that Fram turned around. Just like I'm not aware that Pennzoil was good...I've been trying to learn here. Filters are important, and will look more into RP and the like for filters. Thanks for the tip there :-)

Last edited by Artfulkatana; 01/24/18 05:14 PM.

2006 Saab 93SS Aero (Super Corsair)
2003 Saab 93SS (StationAir)
1985 Saab 900 Turbo (Sky Train)
Re: Saab 2.8T V6 Royal Purple 0W-40 [Re: Artfulkatana] #4645159
01/24/18 05:22 PM
01/24/18 05:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4
Anacortes, WA
Artfulkatana Offline OP
Artfulkatana  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4
Anacortes, WA
I also was looking into camguard because I am concerned about corrosion in the long run. I have also seen differences in camshaft lobes with it's usage.
I have a water/methanol injection setup that I will be installing in the near future, and blow-by is always a factor. In the perfect world, I'd start with a Glyptol treatment around all applicable serfaces, but I can't have that kind of down time. So camguard is cheap insurance for now.


2006 Saab 93SS Aero (Super Corsair)
2003 Saab 93SS (StationAir)
1985 Saab 900 Turbo (Sky Train)
Re: Saab 2.8T V6 Royal Purple 0W-40 [Re: Artfulkatana] #4645235
01/24/18 07:05 PM
01/24/18 07:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,003
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,003
MN
Originally Posted By: Artfulkatana
I'm not trolling about Mobil, it ruined the bottom end of one of my 900 Turbos, ruined the bottom end of a racing prosche buddy of mine on the east coast, and a few in the Saab community have had bad issues with Mobil. Not trolling. Thankfully Mobil fixed the problem for me, but I won't use their products anymore.
Some indictments of Mobil1 oil have popped up from time to time. 10 years ago, there was Valvoline's blatant unapologetic presentation that showed there was a problem with M1 5w30: https://mafiadoc.com/valvoline-synpower-...bc9ae9890b.html
I don't know. It was very strange though. Surely whatever problems they might have had before have been corrected now though.

Re: Saab 2.8T V6 Royal Purple 0W-40 [Re: farrarfan1] #4645406
01/24/18 09:58 PM
01/24/18 09:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,644
Dallas,Tx USA
aquariuscsm Offline
aquariuscsm  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,644
Dallas,Tx USA
Originally Posted By: farrarfan1
It's Mobil, not Mobile. Never have understood why some people call it Mobile.


Probably spell check. My Mac and iPhone will correct "mobil" to "mobile" if I don't catch it :P


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5W20


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