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An oldie , but.... #4644331
01/23/18 08:07 PM
01/23/18 08:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
bigj_16 Offline OP
bigj_16  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
..goody.


Re: An oldie , but.... [Re: bigj_16] #4644341
01/23/18 08:19 PM
01/23/18 08:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,779
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Online content
Astro14  Online Content
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Posts: 8,779
Virginia Beach
"Was I to die this moment, ‘Want of Frigates’ would be found stamped on my heart."

- Lord Admiral Horatio Nelson

True today for the US Navy...the LCS is no frigate...

Last edited by Astro14; 01/23/18 08:20 PM.

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Re: An oldie , but.... [Re: bigj_16] #4644362
01/23/18 08:33 PM
01/23/18 08:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,514
Marshfield , MA
andyd Offline
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Marshfield , MA
ok, I'll play Mickey the Dunce. What type of vessel is that? A fast transport I'm guessin


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Re: An oldie , but.... [Re: bigj_16] #4644371
01/23/18 08:39 PM
01/23/18 08:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,285
Kansan,1911 45ACP fan
Marco620 Offline
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Kansan,1911 45ACP fan
Love naval vessels!! My dad was a petty officer in the Navy and spent hardly one day with them. Seems the Marines found him more appealing and he was a Navy Corpsman. Irony...being a sailor stuck in a desert.


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Re: An oldie , but.... [Re: andyd] #4644473
01/23/18 10:02 PM
01/23/18 10:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
bigj_16 Offline OP
bigj_16  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
Originally Posted By: andyd
ok, I'll play Mickey the Dunce. What type of vessel is that? A fast transport I'm guessin


That is the USS Hawes (FFG-53). Perry Class Guided Missile Frigate. I commissioned her on February 9, 1985 in Bath, Maine. She was decommissioned on December 9, 2010. She is at the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard. The Navy is considering bringing a few of the Perry class Frigates out of mothballs. Slim chance, but it might happen.

Re: An oldie , but.... [Re: bigj_16] #4644512
01/23/18 10:47 PM
01/23/18 10:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,366
Soviet State of Washington
PimTac Offline
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Soviet State of Washington
“A Fast Ship Going in Harms Way.”

The Hawes is not very old. I wonder if another country will be getting it on sale? Compare to the USCGC Confidence , a Ship I served on which was commissioned in 1966 and still going strong despite many years of Alaska patrols. We got a Battle E during my tour aboard as well as laying her over in Unimak Pass and getting badly damaged in a big winter storm in 1977 which put her in Charlie status for an extended period of time.


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Re: An oldie , but.... [Re: PimTac] #4644788
01/24/18 10:26 AM
01/24/18 10:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
bigj_16 Offline OP
bigj_16  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
Originally Posted By: PimTac
“A Fast Ship Going in Harms Way.”

The Hawes is not very old. I wonder if another country will be getting it on sale? Compare to the USCGC Confidence , a Ship I served on which was commissioned in 1966 and still going strong despite many years of Alaska patrols. We got a Battle E during my tour aboard as well as laying her over in Unimak Pass and getting badly damaged in a big winter storm in 1977 which put her in Charlie status for an extended period of time.


A few fun facts. The Perry class Frigates were originally conceptualized as a Coast Guard Cutter! They were a great ASW platform, but what put them in disfavor was their Mk 13 one armed bandit missile launcher. It could only carry SM-1 missiles in the magazine, and the Navy stopped using SM-1's in 2003. Some had Mk 38 Bushmasters installed over the launcher space, but the launcher removal sounded their death knell. There were other weapons ideas floated, but most of the Perry class Frigates had been worked over pretty well. The Hawes is scheduled for scrapping, which means if they bring a few back, it might make it. Some of the others are scheduled to be a reef, or for sale to another country. For what they were, the Perry class frigates were good little ships. They did a lot of interdiction work, and a lot of other multi mission duties, that freed up the Aegis ships for the bigger stuff.

Re: An oldie , but.... [Re: bigj_16] #4644901
01/24/18 12:45 PM
01/24/18 12:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,779
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Online content
Astro14  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,779
Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: bigj_16


A few fun facts. The Perry class Frigates were originally conceptualized as a Coast Guard Cutter! They were a great ASW platform, but what put them in disfavor was their Mk 13 one armed bandit missile launcher. It could only carry SM-1 missiles in the magazine, and the Navy stopped using SM-1's in 2003. Some had Mk 38 Bushmasters installed over the launcher space, but the launcher removal sounded their death knell. There were other weapons ideas floated, but most of the Perry class Frigates had been worked over pretty well. The Hawes is scheduled for scrapping, which means if they bring a few back, it might make it. Some of the others are scheduled to be a reef, or for sale to another country. For what they were, the Perry class frigates were good little ships. They did a lot of interdiction work, and a lot of other multi mission duties, that freed up the Aegis ships for the bigger stuff.


Exactly. The OHP Class of Frigates was part of CNO Zumwalt's hi/lo fleet mix. The DDGs were the high end: expensive, capable, ships. The FFGs were the low end: inexpensive, but numerous and useful. Capable against a low end threat. Hi/lo makes sense. F-15 and F-16. F-14 and F/A-18.

In the modern implementation of USN surface ships, the Arleigh-Burke is the high end and it's awesome. A supremely capable combatant.

But the low end is an abject failure. The LCS (Littoral Combat Ship) is expensive, has severe operating limitations, fails on many mission fronts, and has hurt the USN combat capability. There has been legitimate talk of bringing OHP-class FFGs out of mothballs. A retrofit and overhaul would still be cheaper than a new LCS, and the ship would offer far more capability than the LCS.

"Want of Frigates" is the current state of the US Navy. Nelson knew how much that mattered over 200 hundreds years ago, but CNOs like ADM Greenert simply forgot the lesson and became enamored of high-tech, new design that fails on nearly every count: cost, capability, range, effectiveness. His vision, " a networked, agile, stealthy surface combatant capable of defeating anti-access and asymmetric threats in the littorals." sounds like a bunch of buzzwords strung together in a powerpoint sales pitch. The LCS has delivered none of the elements envisioned at the time of its approval. The CNO famously chose to pick BOTH designs in the contest (like picking BOTH the YF-16 and the YF-17 in the USAF lightweight fighter competition....what's the point of a competition, then?) driving up the cost of procurement, spare parts, training and inventory.

Now, confronted with the huge price over-runs, the lack of capability, the silliness of TWO ships in a class that was envisioned to have a maximum of 50 ships total, the USN has had to select just one design, and build more capability into it...changing it from LCS - to, well, a Frigate!

Last summer, the USN asked for an RFI (phase one of procurement) on a new frigate...FFG(x).

"Want of Frigates" indeed...


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Re: An oldie , but.... [Re: Astro14] #4645093
01/24/18 04:18 PM
01/24/18 04:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
bigj_16 Offline OP
bigj_16  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
Originally Posted By: Astro14
In the modern implementation of USN surface ships, the Arleigh-Burke is the high end and it's awesome. A supremely capable combatant.

You mean like this?


USS John S. McCain (DDG-56). I commissioned her on July 2, 1994 in Bath also. It was really hot and humid (for Maine). The former President George H.W. Bush was the speaker. His connection to the ship was that my CO, Jake Ross, was Bush's Naval Aide in the White House. Bush, interestingly enough, was also the speaker at the commissioning of this ship:



USS San Jacinto (CG-56),which I commissioned in Houston on January 23, 1988. George H.W. was Vice President at the time. We drove up the Galveston Ship Channel, right past the Battle of San Jacinto Memorial. Texans were lining the ship channel all the way up. There were about 5,000 people waiting on us when we pulled in. George H.W.'s connection to this ship was that of Texas, but more so, the previous San Jacinto(CVL-30) was his ship in WWII.

Last edited by bigj_16; 01/24/18 04:19 PM.
Re: An oldie , but.... [Re: bigj_16] #4645119
01/24/18 04:39 PM
01/24/18 04:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,779
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Online content
Astro14  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,779
Virginia Beach
Yeah..like that!

I was actually present at the commissioning of DDG-51, the USS Arleigh Burke. Where Admiral Arleigh Burke (by then quite old, in his 90s, I think) gave some remarks. It was the 4th of July, and a hot one, at that, in downtown Norfolk, where the ceremony took place.

"31-knot" Burke said something like, "This ship can fight, so you had better know how!"

Flight III AEGIS DDGs are impressive ships. A Tico-class cruiser carries more missiles in the VLS but that is its sole advantage over the latest DDGs, they're really impressive ships. BMD-capable, fast, able to do AAW, ASW, SUW all at the same time. I like the Arleigh Burke class. But they are expensive to build.


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Re: An oldie , but.... [Re: bigj_16] #4645122
01/24/18 04:43 PM
01/24/18 04:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,779
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Online content
Astro14  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,779
Virginia Beach
Found this awesome photo of Admiral Burke arriving in style for the commissioning ceremony...



That's a 1930 Packard from the looks of it. In Aztec Olivine Brown with Black. The exact color of my car.

Always admired Admiral Burke...now, I like him even more...

Cheers,
Astro

Last edited by Astro14; 01/24/18 04:48 PM.

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Re: An oldie , but.... [Re: Astro14] #4645127
01/24/18 04:48 PM
01/24/18 04:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
bigj_16 Offline OP
bigj_16  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Yeah..like that!

I was actually present at the commissioning of DDG-51, the USS Arleigh Burke. Where Admiral Arleigh Burke (by then quite old, in his 90s, I think) gave some remarks. It was the 4th of July, and a hot one, at that, in downtown Norfolk, where the ceremony took place.

"31-knot" Burke said something like, "This ship can fight, so you had better know how!"

Flight III AEGIS DDGs are impressive ships. A Tico-class cruiser carries more missiles in the VLS but that is its sole advantage over the latest DDGs, they're really impressive ships. BMD-capable, fast, able to do AAW, ASW, SUW all at the same time. I like the Arleigh Burke class. But they are expensive to build.


Yeah, but the cruisers have an Admiral's cabin smile

Re: An oldie , but.... [Re: bigj_16] #4660090
02/08/18 04:24 PM
02/08/18 04:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,083
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
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Posts: 42,083
New Jersey
Speaking of...

Taken this AM:






Re: An oldie , but.... [Re: bigj_16] #4660171
02/08/18 06:06 PM
02/08/18 06:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,366
Soviet State of Washington
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,366
Soviet State of Washington
@ bigj_16,

Is that the same USS John S McCain that was involved in the collision some months ago? A very unfortunate incident.


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