2016 Ford 3.5EB 10K miles castrol 0w40

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
...For comparison, consider this ...
Motorcraft 5/20 Blend - 2015 3.7l TiVTC. (4220Mi)
here's another UOA, shorter OCI at 4k miles, and the Fe is at 8ppm. So, the exact same wear rate exists (2.x ppm/1k miles).
And the engine here has a very low fuel content, so you cannot blame fuel here, can you? This engine isn’t even DI. ...


Results on that unit actually track more closely with hours than miles. Number in parenthesis are running hours/idle hours for the OCI and the percentage is the oil life indicated by a vehicle health report.

01/21/2016 - 4978 miles, 289hrs running, 191hrs idle 51%
03/16/2016- 10,042 miles, 645hrs running, 445hrs idle (356/254) 3% (not reset @ 1st change)
05/16/2016 - 14,954 miles, 891hrs running, 596hrs idle (246/151) 51%
06/27/2016 - 20,270 miles, 1070 hrs running, 681hrs idle (179/85) 41%
11/07/2016 - 24,991 miles, 1292 hrs running, 805 hrs idle (222/124) 0% (not reset @20,270)
02/07/2017 - 30,165 miles, 1467 hrs running, 878 hrs idle (175/73) Forgot to run
04/28/2017 - 34, 934 miles, 1757 hrs running, 1070 hrs idle (290/192) 52%
08/04/2017 - 40,355 miles, 2184 hrs running, 1387 hrs idle (427/317) 39%
11/09/2017 - 44,575 miles, 2301 hrs running, 1416 hrs idle (117/29) 58%

The flashpoint might leave one to question the accuracy of the fuel content as well...
 
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There is nothing good about fuel dilution. Period. Whether or not it has an effect over 100,000 to 150,000 miles of normal passenger car ownership? Probably not. There is a reason there is testing for fuel dilution across the industry for piston engines. It is bad. Period. There are tons of studies and tests that show this for myriad reasons, over decades. I have never seen one study or test that says fuel dilution either doesn't matter or is good. Never.

If you think that you can get by with fuel dilution of 5% over 10,000 miles, that is your business. But don't try to rationalize or justify. It absolutely does not fly, either scientifically or through real world experience.
 
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If you are talking to me about justifying my fuel dilution I don't know where you got that from. All I said is that I am in the camp that does not think it is that big of a deal. If this was an aircraft engine I would probably be worried sick but in a passenger car that will likely never see 200k I don't see the issue.

I originally was worried as you can see by my very first EB uoa here F150 2011 UOA ( I ran this truck until about 80k and traded it in)

But after seeing fuel dilution in every DI engine I own (Ford's and Hyundai's) not showing substantial issues based on UOA I ceased worrying about it. Not because I think its ok but because there is nothing I can do about it. The wear numbers do not change appreciably if I do 5k or 10k oil changes. In addition the dilution numbers are similar in a 5k uoa as they are in a 10k uoa. Sure UOA may not tell the whole story but it is the only story I can read. My cars/trucks run great, all of them have over 60k and 1 has over 100k and they (knock wood) have been trouble free so far. BTW my F350 diesel 6.7 had fuel dilution as well, I think these type of engines are the wave of the future and dilution is just something we all will have to deal with (those of us with DI). Modern oils seem up to the task but I guess we will have a clearer picture in the years to come.
 
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BeerCan, you're smart to use 0w40 (any at Walmart will do, Pennz/M1/Castrol) with some fuel dilution present. Ford probably won't deny engine warranty coverage if they find out you're using an excellent euro-qualified oil like that, over their minimum-spec Motorcraft 5w30 stuff.

I agree with those discussing above that say your KV100 was still plenty high enough here, and your wear numbers were very low. Keep doing what you're doing.
I'd make sure to use a tough "Fram Ultra" all-syn 20k-miles-rated oil filter here, just to make sure you have the most capable filter.

I'm kinda surprised the KV100 wasn't a bit lower since fuel dilution is relatively high-ish. It looks fine though.
 
Those who think they might not have the same dilution in the same engine type better not be using blackstone to compare. They aren't able to detect dilution levels like labs that use GC to measure.
 
Originally Posted By: KL31
Those who think they might not have the same dilution in the same engine type better not be using blackstone to compare. They aren't able to detect dilution levels like labs that use GC to measure.
Just focus on KV100 viscosity. That's measured accurately, and its the real issue, at least from an oil film thickness standpoint. The more the visc, the greater the oil film thickness. VII shearing & fuel dilution make visc go down, and oxidation makes visc go up. The end game is to see the KV100 not less than 2 cSt below the new-oil point as a general rule. A little extra visc above the new-oil point won't damage your engine, but is an indication the oil is heavily oxidized and needs to be changed.
 
I see nothing serious here. 10k is easily within a safe OCI. Ford would usher its demise if it started blowing engines in its money maker.
 
The iron numbers are better than the iron numbers we see with people doing 5,000 mile oil change intervls with M 1. As well as the viscosity with the blend and fuel dilution still is a 40.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
The iron numbers are better than the iron numbers we see with people doing 5,000 mile oil change intervls with M 1. As well as the viscosity with the blend and fuel dilution still is a 40.


https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4594964/2009_Honda_Fit,_Mobil_1_HM_5W-#Post4594964
 
#'s look fine to me. I guess some of these fuel dilution critics never drove a carburetor car - talk about running rich! Even they lasted hundreds of thousands of miles with [censored] oil back in the day. OP - just keep that baby topped off and keep doing what you're doing. It will be fine.
 
Originally Posted By: bigt61
#'s look fine to me. I guess some of these fuel dilution critics never drove a carburetor car - talk about running rich! Even they lasted hundreds of thousands of miles with [censored] oil back in the day. OP - just keep that baby topped off and keep doing what you're doing. It will be fine.


That is true and we were blissfully unaware. On the other hand, one of the reasons for longer engine life in modern cars is fuel injection that, until the DI era began, did a much better job controlling negatives like fuel dilution.
 
wished these analysis labs would specify the exact fuel dilution, reporting >5% although enough to merit attention is not accurate and difficult to gauge dilution severity.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
https://www.avweb.com/news/maint/185087-1.html

https://www.amsoil.com/techservicesbulletin/MotorOil/TSB MO 2004-07-02 Fuel Dilution.pdf

wear particle sizes are often 5 to 10 microns and larger. So, why does this matter? Size is important because the most commonly used test method to assess active machine wear - elemental spectroscopy - has a limit to the size of particles it can detect, elemental analysis can't detect particles larger than 3 to 8 microns in size, rendering it useless in situations of advanced machine wear, or where the failure mode naturally generates larger particles, such as fatigue or severe sliding wear.

Particle contamination accounts for 60 to 80 percent of all lubrication-related failures.

I understand people here put an awful lot of faith in UOA results. The fact remains, UOA is a tool and nothing more. There are many aspects of oil that are not tested with UOA. It's not uncommon to see failed engines that exhibited excellent UOA results.

I recently replaced an aircraft engine that had acceptable UOA results, ran quite well, and had nearly self destructed inside. It had excessive camshaft and rod bearing wear.
I have A@P friends mostly United Airlines San Francisco Airport ,though now retired. I always had them around for input when I hot rodded cars ,boats and motorcycles, They know things.
grin.gif
 
Isn't this the engine that folks are already reaching 200-300k miles with? I've read that Ford tested the snot out of these and did tear-downs after hundreds of thousands of miles and found virtually no measurable wear. Like someone else mentioned, blowing Ford engines would ruin Ford in their flagship money maker.

I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
 
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