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Ford 2.0L Zetec interesting problem #4642586
01/22/18 07:50 AM
01/22/18 07:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,211
Middle of Iowa
DriveHard Offline OP
DriveHard  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,211
Middle of Iowa
Just looking to get some quick feedback on an interesting issue my daughters car has been having.

Patient:
2000 Ford ZX2 2.0L

Symptoms:
Start cold - starts just fine and goes to high idle
As idle slowly drops, it starts to cut out, then try to catch itself. As the idle continues to drop it gets to the point when it cuts out it can't re-catch and dies.
Once warm, it starts and idles just fine.
If cold and you start it and put it directly in gear, it won't die and idles fine
Even when warm, when you put it in gear, it jumps to 1100 rpm...which seems kind of high

What I have done:
replaced vacuum lines
replaced Idle Air control valve

What I am thinking:
I am wondering if there is a temperature sensor going bad somewhere in that the ECU thinks the engine is warmer than it really is on cold start, so it it trying to cut the idle down too fast, causing the stall. Any thoughts?


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Re: Ford 2.0L Zetec interesting problem [Re: DriveHard] #4642601
01/22/18 08:00 AM
01/22/18 08:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,815
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Offline
Chris142  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,815
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Put a scanner on it. See what temp it thinks it is vs actual temp.


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Re: Ford 2.0L Zetec interesting problem [Re: DriveHard] #4642802
01/22/18 11:08 AM
01/22/18 11:08 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 546
TEXAS
InhalingBullets Offline
InhalingBullets  Offline
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 546
TEXAS
just thinking out loud, check out the Mass air flow sensor?


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Re: Ford 2.0L Zetec interesting problem [Re: DriveHard] #4648236
01/27/18 06:04 PM
01/27/18 06:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,211
Middle of Iowa
DriveHard Offline OP
DriveHard  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,211
Middle of Iowa
replaced MAF and O2...still idling like poo and dying.

I think it is the throttle position sensor. It reads 17 even when fully closed, and jumps around at idle.


Smile, it increases your face value
2013 Fiat 500 Abarth mod heavy (my DD)
2018 Alfa Romeo Stelvio TI Sport (wife's)
2011 Silverado Crew Cab LT 6.2L/6spd (tow pig)
2007 Nissan Xterra (trail toy)
Re: Ford 2.0L Zetec interesting problem [Re: DriveHard] #4648978
01/28/18 11:50 AM
01/28/18 11:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,211
Middle of Iowa
DriveHard Offline OP
DriveHard  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,211
Middle of Iowa
update for anybody following...
replaced the throttle position sensor...problem persists. When sitting at "idle" it is now surging to 2000+ rpm. The throttle position sensor reading is jumping all around from 17 up to the 30's. I am starting to think it is the engine ECU. I can get a junkyard ECU for $35, so probably give that a shot.


Smile, it increases your face value
2013 Fiat 500 Abarth mod heavy (my DD)
2018 Alfa Romeo Stelvio TI Sport (wife's)
2011 Silverado Crew Cab LT 6.2L/6spd (tow pig)
2007 Nissan Xterra (trail toy)
Re: Ford 2.0L Zetec interesting problem [Re: DriveHard] #4649090
01/28/18 01:06 PM
01/28/18 01:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 975
midwest
JamesBond Offline
JamesBond  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 975
midwest
Can you check the voltage at the battery when it's running? The high idle sounds like a vac leak. What hoses did you replace? Try pulling the pcv hose from the intake and taping it off or just covering it with your finger.

The tps always shows high on my spi Ford engine even with the throttle closed, but I don't remember it jumping around. Try unplugging the icv and see what it does.

Last edited by JamesBond; 01/28/18 01:08 PM.
Re: Ford 2.0L Zetec interesting problem [Re: DriveHard] #4649095
01/28/18 01:09 PM
01/28/18 01:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,563
ME
eljefino Offline
eljefino  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,563
ME
When it's idling grab the engine wiring harness and tug it all around.

The potential is there that "any" sensor or faulty wiring is dragging down the regulated (5?) volts, and that the TPS is showing symptoms of this. Not necessarily b/c it's at fault, but b/c it needs the regulated voltage to work well.

Re: Ford 2.0L Zetec interesting problem [Re: eljefino] #4650856
01/30/18 08:04 AM
01/30/18 08:04 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,211
Middle of Iowa
DriveHard Offline OP
DriveHard  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,211
Middle of Iowa
Originally Posted By: eljefino
When it's idling grab the engine wiring harness and tug it all around.

The potential is there that "any" sensor or faulty wiring is dragging down the regulated (5?) volts, and that the TPS is showing symptoms of this. Not necessarily b/c it's at fault, but b/c it needs the regulated voltage to work well.


I would think if it was being drug down, it would show as lower throttle position settings...not higher settings. When it fluctuates, it always goes high. I need to find a faster multi meter, so I can monitor the input voltage to that sensor and see if it is going above 5V.


Smile, it increases your face value
2013 Fiat 500 Abarth mod heavy (my DD)
2018 Alfa Romeo Stelvio TI Sport (wife's)
2011 Silverado Crew Cab LT 6.2L/6spd (tow pig)
2007 Nissan Xterra (trail toy)
Re: Ford 2.0L Zetec interesting problem [Re: DriveHard] #4650955
01/30/18 09:41 AM
01/30/18 09:41 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,533
Baltimore, Maryland, USA
zzyzzx Online sleepy
zzyzzx  Online Sleepy
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,533
Baltimore, Maryland, USA
What about the PCV valve?

Re: Ford 2.0L Zetec interesting problem [Re: zzyzzx] #4651238
01/30/18 02:46 PM
01/30/18 02:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,211
Middle of Iowa
DriveHard Offline OP
DriveHard  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,211
Middle of Iowa
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
What about the PCV valve?


I do need to look into that as well...but I am not sure how that would explain the throttle position signal jumping all around.


Smile, it increases your face value
2013 Fiat 500 Abarth mod heavy (my DD)
2018 Alfa Romeo Stelvio TI Sport (wife's)
2011 Silverado Crew Cab LT 6.2L/6spd (tow pig)
2007 Nissan Xterra (trail toy)
Re: Ford 2.0L Zetec interesting problem [Re: DriveHard] #4651348
01/30/18 03:59 PM
01/30/18 03:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,457
California
nthach Offline
nthach  Offline
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,457
California
I would say check the ECT sensor but a bum one can and does set a code in the PCM.

Re: Ford 2.0L Zetec interesting problem [Re: nthach] #4651770
01/31/18 07:38 AM
01/31/18 07:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,211
Middle of Iowa
DriveHard Offline OP
DriveHard  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,211
Middle of Iowa
Originally Posted By: nthach
I would say check the ECT sensor but a bum one can and does set a code in the PCM.



there are no codes, and no pending codes


Smile, it increases your face value
2013 Fiat 500 Abarth mod heavy (my DD)
2018 Alfa Romeo Stelvio TI Sport (wife's)
2011 Silverado Crew Cab LT 6.2L/6spd (tow pig)
2007 Nissan Xterra (trail toy)
Re: Ford 2.0L Zetec interesting problem [Re: DriveHard] #4651774
01/31/18 07:53 AM
01/31/18 07:53 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,595
USA
mk378 Online content
mk378  Online Content
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,595
USA
Have you looked at the ECT and IAT live data and compare to actual temperature? A sensor can be out of spec and cause runnability problems but not far enough off to throw a code.

Last edited by mk378; 01/31/18 07:53 AM.
Re: Ford 2.0L Zetec interesting problem [Re: DriveHard] #4651783
01/31/18 08:06 AM
01/31/18 08:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,481
Ontario, Canada
mightymousetech Offline
mightymousetech  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,481
Ontario, Canada
Did you check the actual throttle plate? Could be loose.


Mighty Mouse Tech
BMW Tech, Former Acura Tech
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Re: Ford 2.0L Zetec interesting problem [Re: DriveHard] #4651906
01/31/18 09:58 AM
01/31/18 09:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 316
Michigan
rat Offline
rat  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 316
Michigan
Originally Posted By: DriveHard
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
What about the PCV valve?


I do need to look into that as well...but I am not sure how that would explain the throttle position signal jumping all around.



Iíve had a few of these ZX2s. The rubber elbow at the PCV valve erodes and causes a vacuum leak and the very condition that you are experiencing.


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