Recent Topics
WoO driver Jason Johnson injured
by bdcardinal
06/24/18 01:08 AM
Plastic burning smell when WOT
by Jaha24k
06/24/18 12:57 AM
Duckham's 15w50 Oil 12 one liter bottles
by Lolvoguy
06/24/18 12:00 AM
Ruger LCP .380
by PW01
06/23/18 11:24 PM
Launching boat with stick shift
by troutfisher
06/23/18 11:22 PM
Free oil
by Spitter
06/23/18 10:53 PM
Porsche Panamera buying advice
by CharlieBauer
06/23/18 10:04 PM
RC cars
by red7404
06/23/18 09:36 PM
Any Good 4K Movies ?
by Warstud
06/23/18 09:06 PM
Gray on Oil Dipstick?
by chinee
06/23/18 08:41 PM
Clear plastic scratch remover?
by Quattro Pete
06/23/18 08:15 PM
Parking wars show.
by Chris142
06/23/18 08:15 PM
set for years
by 93cruiser
06/23/18 08:07 PM
Looking to replace 2005 Sienna with SUV
by i6pwr
06/23/18 07:26 PM
Trying to fix chainsaw
by turtlevette
06/23/18 06:48 PM
tire rotation
by marine65
06/23/18 06:48 PM
Reese hitch $30 Walmart YMMV
by pda1122
06/23/18 06:14 PM
Managing Anger During Unexpected Tire Change
by TheLawnRanger
06/23/18 06:14 PM
2016 Honda Pilot appears to be consuming oil
by pilot1226
06/23/18 06:00 PM
New belt squeal cause damage to belt?
by pda1122
06/23/18 05:33 PM
Newest Members
bwechols, bowupid, pod423, lemaitrix, azzid0906
65303 Registered Users
Who's Online
17 registered (4WD, chainblu, AMC, Char Baby, David1, citationxeleven), 744 Guests and 39 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
65303 Members
67 Forums
285889 Topics
4771005 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#4642025 - 01/21/18 03:11 PM [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H
DuckRyder Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 4214
Loc: Atlanta








_________________________
Robert
  • 2007 Toyota Prius Touring
  • 2005 Honda Civic Sedan
  • 1972 Ford F100

Top
#4642031 - 01/21/18 03:19 PM Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: DuckRyder]
Pajero Offline


Registered: 05/05/12
Posts: 873
Loc: Rio Rancho, NM
The quality of the build is impressive. The filtering not so much!

Many people enjoy mocking Fram for the OCOD, yet Fram makes one of the best oil filters on the market (efficiency rating context), aside from the price.





Respectfully,

Pajero!
_________________________
Always remember "Planned obsolescence."

1994 Montero SR 3.5 DOHC, 133,xxx
Fram Ultra/ Snorkel with Pre-filter
K-9-Co-pilot

Top
#4642041 - 01/21/18 03:32 PM Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: DuckRyder]
slacktide_bitog Offline


Registered: 03/20/08
Posts: 6177
Loc: USA
There's some rust on the base plate. What is the date code on top of the can? smile

Top
#4642060 - 01/21/18 03:45 PM Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: DuckRyder]
Snagglefoot Offline


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1763
Loc: Alberta
Good photos. Thanks for sharing. Cheers1

Top
#4642071 - 01/21/18 03:52 PM Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: slacktide_bitog]
DuckRyder Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 4214
Loc: Atlanta
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
There's some rust on the base plate. What is the date code on top of the can? smile


Sorry forgot those the first time

_________________________
Robert
  • 2007 Toyota Prius Touring
  • 2005 Honda Civic Sedan
  • 1972 Ford F100

Top
#4642073 - 01/21/18 03:55 PM Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: Pajero]
das_peikko Offline


Registered: 01/01/18
Posts: 521
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted By: Pajero
The quality of the build is impressive. The filtering not so much!


It's the perfect filter for someone who values build quality over efficiency.

Top
#4642079 - 01/21/18 04:02 PM Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: DuckRyder]
slacktide_bitog Offline


Registered: 03/20/08
Posts: 6177
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
There's some rust on the base plate. What is the date code on top of the can? smile


Sorry forgot those the first time



Thanks thumbsup

Wow 10/28/17

not even three months old, and it's already starting to rust crzy

Top
#4642084 - 01/21/18 04:06 PM Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: Pajero]
newtoncd8 Offline


Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 872
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Pajero
The quality of the build is impressive. The filtering not so much!

Many people enjoy mocking Fram for the OCOD, yet Fram makes one of the best oil filters on the market (efficiency rating context), aside from the price.


I have always been curious about this and BITOG stresses how important the micron rating is. 99% @ 35 microns (XP) vs 99% @ 20 microns (FU) in real world driving, can you quantify what that means for a daily driver?

Anecdotal: Our 4-cylinder Camry ran Toyota OEM filters (50% @ 20 microns) and Pennzoil conventional oil every 3-4k and the engine was still purring at 351,000 miles, but rust and a rear main seal leak made it not worth repairing. And, our RX330 just went over 226,000 miles on Toyota OEM filters.
_________________________
12 Jeep GC, 04 Lexus RX330, 77 MG-B
11 Audi A4, 01 Audi A4
99 Lexus ES300, 98 Isuzu Trooper
94 & 91 Acura Integra, 88 Toyota Camry,
84 Honda Accord, 70 Pontiac LeMans,
62 Ford Galaxy 500

Top
#4642099 - 01/21/18 04:29 PM Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: DuckRyder]
DuckRyder Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 4214
Loc: Atlanta
I donít think that is rust on the tapping plate, I noticed that the tapping plate looked sort of dirty but I think it is cardboard from the box mixed with anticorrosive sprayed on.

Wondering about the red stain in the media, I think that may also be a corrosion inhibitor (overspray) but not sure.
_________________________
Robert
  • 2007 Toyota Prius Touring
  • 2005 Honda Civic Sedan
  • 1972 Ford F100

Top
#4642186 - 01/21/18 06:09 PM Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: Pajero]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17795
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: Pajero
Many people enjoy mocking Fram for the OCOD, yet Fram makes one of the best oil filters on the market (efficiency rating context), aside from the price.

Price of the Ultra is actually very good for what you get. You won't find a cheaper filter with the same construction and efficiency.

Top
#4642296 - 01/21/18 07:40 PM Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: newtoncd8]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 18900
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: newtoncd8
Originally Posted By: Pajero
The quality of the build is impressive. The filtering not so much!

Many people enjoy mocking Fram for the OCOD, yet Fram makes one of the best oil filters on the market (efficiency rating context), aside from the price.


I have always been curious about this and BITOG stresses how important the micron rating is. 99% @ 35 microns (XP) vs 99% @ 20 microns (FU) in real world driving, can you quantify what that means for a daily driver?

Anecdotal: Our 4-cylinder Camry ran Toyota OEM filters (50% @ 20 microns) and Pennzoil conventional oil every 3-4k and the engine was still purring at 351,000 miles, but rust and a rear main seal leak made it not worth repairing. And, our RX330 just went over 226,000 miles on Toyota OEM filters.


From the literally hundreds of engines I have had apart over the last 45 years I cant honestly say I had one where damage could be attributed to a lower efficiency oil filter media, I have seen a couple of engines where the wrong filter was installed and the engine let go within a few miles but that's another thing.
IMHO a failed ADBV would be of greater concern to me if the engine required it.

Personally based on real world tear down experience of high mileage engines this whole efficiency thing is nothing more than advertising hype with possibly a little horse manure thrown in the mix for good measure.
_________________________
ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.

Top
#4642300 - 01/21/18 07:53 PM Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: Trav]
newtoncd8 Offline


Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 872
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Trav
Personally based on real world tear down experience of high mileage engines this whole efficiency thing is nothing more than advertising hype with possibly a little horse manure thrown in the mix for good measure.


Thank you for that. I believe I will continue to use the poorly rated Toyota OEM (50% @ 20 micron) filter. My wife wants to make it to 500,000 miles on her RX (as I stated above, her Camry made it to 351,000 miles), so she has a pretty good track record. This time, I am using synthetic oil and 5k oil changes, so we will see how it goes ... thanks again.
_________________________
12 Jeep GC, 04 Lexus RX330, 77 MG-B
11 Audi A4, 01 Audi A4
99 Lexus ES300, 98 Isuzu Trooper
94 & 91 Acura Integra, 88 Toyota Camry,
84 Honda Accord, 70 Pontiac LeMans,
62 Ford Galaxy 500

Top
#4642340 - 01/21/18 08:33 PM Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: Trav]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17795
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: Trav
From the literally hundreds of engines I have had apart over the last 45 years I cant honestly say I had one where damage could be attributed to a lower efficiency oil filter media.

Visually inspecting for "damage" isn't going to tell you if an inefficient filter resulted in more engine wear. Engine components can visually look fine, but be out of dimensional specs due to wear. If you can see major visual damage, it's from lack of oiling, not lack of filter efficiency unless there was no filter and the oil was loaded with major wear debris.

Originally Posted By: Trav
I have seen a couple of engines where the wrong filter was installed and the engine let go within a few miles but that's another thing.

I'd like to hear the details of that situation.

Originally Posted By: Trav
Personally based on real world tear down experience of high mileage engines this whole efficiency thing is nothing more than advertising hype with possibly a little horse manure thrown in the mix for good measure.

Did you do a controlled experiment with accurate ways to measure wear to conclude that more efficient oil filtets don't prevent as much engine wear? Many experts have (ie, SAE papers), and they always conclude that cleaner oil results in less engine wear.

Top
#4642402 - 01/21/18 09:55 PM Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: ZeeOSix]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 18900
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
New engine measurements and wear limits from Honda FSM. Over 200K km all lubricated parts within new specs using Starrett micrometers (digital and analog).
This engine was owned by me from 0km brand new in crate motorcycle for over 12 years, run on one brand and weight oil except for the break in and Honda oil filters with the exception of a few aftermarket filters when OE was not available.

Engine was totally disassembled for a stretched cam chain, cylinder and pistons removed and cases split. The engine routinely saw 12,000 rpm and high sustained speeds.
What experts? I have SAE access. No dispute oil with few particles will result in less wear but the question is where do the particles come from?

This particular engine is a rare and perfect example for this discussion, it was in the same hand its whole life, taken care of by someone who knew how to and did take care of it and it has a full OCI history.
Another point worth mentioning is this engine was very tight and well protected against stray air ingress and tight ventilation system. The air intakes were located behind the riders legs on the side keeping the airflow to the filters air box low pressure and undisturbed air flow.

As the engine was not wearing to any measurable degree very few particles were being released into the oil, the oil did a good job of keeping carbon of the pistons and skirts.
The only real avenue for particle ingress would have been the air filter which was always replaced sometimes before recommended interval and obviously did its job as no scoring was evident in the soft tri metal bearing overlay.

Basically it would appear this engine could have run with not much more than a screen for an oil filter with no ill effects.
If an engine is leaking unfiltered air like a sieve like some old carburetor engines did from places like carb to air cleaner connection because the gasket was long gone years ago or leaky pcv system then yes I believe a more efficient oil filter would be of some benefit but how much additional engine life will result from it?

Modern engines are very well sealed against unfiltered air ingress and judging by the reduced size of oil filters found on many engines these days the oil filters efficiency is less important than flow through the system.
Some engines like those from VW use a large filter not only for filtering but for additional capacity like on the earlier 1.8 turbo engines.
Using a quality air filter with tight connections and changed on schedule is IMO probably the most important part of keeping particles out of the engine.

The engines I have seen ruined by incorrect oil filters were Fiat diesels that knocked or seized right after an oil and filter change. I have no info on which filter was installed as I didn't install them, I just investigated the damage, the engines and filters were subsequently sent to Fiat through the dealer network.
I did note however the filter that caused the damage had an ADBV in both cases and the OE spec did not indicating this particular engine possibly used a different flow through the filter.
_________________________
ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.

Top
#4642474 - 01/22/18 01:12 AM Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: Pajero]
MetalSlug Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 2636
Loc: vicksburg ms
Originally Posted By: Pajero
The quality of the build is impressive. The filtering not so much!

Many people enjoy mocking Fram for the OCOD, yet Fram makes one of the best oil filters on the market (efficiency rating context), aside from the price.





Respectfully,

Pajero!


Not the best . Mabe mid range . Not high range either . Either low or mid range . Without the ultra fram still having bad rep every where on car forum .

To op that a solid build filter , I am going to use wix xp next . Only reason I was using fram ultra was the synthetic media and WIREBACK . Now I see wix build the same but more solid. It will be my to go filter from now . Wix made one of the best filter on the market . No bad rep any where I go. Fram do have bad rep every where I go.
_________________________
NO FRAM OCOD " Orange Can Of DEATH ď
03 SVT COBRA 10th anniversary Whipple 600whp M1 5w30 Wix 51372XP
01 Corvette ZO6 stock M1 5w30 / M1-107A
2016 NISSAN TITAN dealer OC daily drive

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >