Recent Topics
Mobil 1 Extended Protection High Mileage Test
by njohnson. 09/22/18 07:57 AM
WPA 3 Wireless Security Coming
by StevieC. 09/22/18 01:16 AM
Robo Calls/Telemarketers
by Nick1994. 09/22/18 12:47 AM
What oil should be used!
by BigShug681. 09/22/18 12:28 AM
VW Electronic Parking Brake
by StevieC. 09/21/18 11:48 PM
Leak Sealing and Mould Treatments?
by Ducked. 09/21/18 11:44 PM
UPS / FedEx / USPS
by StevieC. 09/21/18 11:21 PM
puncture repair question
by neo3. 09/21/18 10:55 PM
Can I use a 10 amp extension cord for...
by gregk24. 09/21/18 10:48 PM
In the unlikely event of a crash
by StevieC. 09/21/18 10:09 PM
Craigslist time wasters
by Anduril. 09/21/18 09:41 PM
Who runs a 20wt here?
by StevieC. 09/21/18 07:31 PM
Need help on edit profile
by jetmech1. 09/21/18 06:34 PM
Oil thickness on the dipstick
by Idlewild294. 09/21/18 05:40 PM
Chinese WIX Trans filter bad, let me down..
by jetmech1. 09/21/18 04:47 PM
Gen 8 Accord rear brakes-What tool?
by fdcg27. 09/21/18 04:30 PM
Ammeters?
by buck91. 09/21/18 03:55 PM
Newest Members
Sarrge, Big_R, gordond, mrgreggn, JRMFt11
66040 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
77 registered members (928, -SyN-, Aero540T, 2010Civic, Al, 2002 Maxima SE, 5 invisible), 1,343 guests, and 26 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics290,811
Posts4,850,834
Members66,040
Most Online3,590
Jan 24th, 2017
Donate to BITOG
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
[Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H #4642025
01/21/18 04:11 PM
01/21/18 04:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,399
Atlanta
DuckRyder Offline OP
DuckRyder  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,399
Atlanta










Robert
  • 2007 Toyota Prius Touring
  • 2005 Honda Civic Sedan
  • 1972 Ford F100
Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: DuckRyder] #4642031
01/21/18 04:19 PM
01/21/18 04:19 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 953
Rio Rancho, NM
Pajero Offline
Pajero  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 953
Rio Rancho, NM
The quality of the build is impressive. The filtering not so much!

Many people enjoy mocking Fram for the OCOD, yet Fram makes one of the best oil filters on the market (efficiency rating context), aside from the price.





Respectfully,

Pajero!


Always remember "Planned obsolescence."

1994 Montero SR 3.5 DOHC, 133,xxx
Fram Ultra/ Snorkel with Pre-filter
K-9-Co-pilot
Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: DuckRyder] #4642041
01/21/18 04:32 PM
01/21/18 04:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,816
USA
slacktide_bitog Offline
slacktide_bitog  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,816
USA
There's some rust on the base plate. What is the date code on top of the can? smile

Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: DuckRyder] #4642060
01/21/18 04:45 PM
01/21/18 04:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,328
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Online content
Snagglefoot  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,328
SE British Columbia, Canada
Good photos. Thanks for sharing. Cheers1


If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: slacktide_bitog] #4642071
01/21/18 04:52 PM
01/21/18 04:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,399
Atlanta
DuckRyder Offline OP
DuckRyder  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,399
Atlanta
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
There's some rust on the base plate. What is the date code on top of the can? smile


Sorry forgot those the first time



Robert
  • 2007 Toyota Prius Touring
  • 2005 Honda Civic Sedan
  • 1972 Ford F100
Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: Pajero] #4642073
01/21/18 04:55 PM
01/21/18 04:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 534
San Antonio, TX
das_peikko Offline
das_peikko  Offline
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 534
San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted By: Pajero
The quality of the build is impressive. The filtering not so much!


It's the perfect filter for someone who values build quality over efficiency.

Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: DuckRyder] #4642079
01/21/18 05:02 PM
01/21/18 05:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,816
USA
slacktide_bitog Offline
slacktide_bitog  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,816
USA
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
There's some rust on the base plate. What is the date code on top of the can? smile


Sorry forgot those the first time



Thanks thumbsup

Wow 10/28/17

not even three months old, and it's already starting to rust crzy

Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: Pajero] #4642084
01/21/18 05:06 PM
01/21/18 05:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 886
Colorado
newtoncd8 Offline
newtoncd8  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 886
Colorado
Originally Posted By: Pajero
The quality of the build is impressive. The filtering not so much!

Many people enjoy mocking Fram for the OCOD, yet Fram makes one of the best oil filters on the market (efficiency rating context), aside from the price.


I have always been curious about this and BITOG stresses how important the micron rating is. 99% @ 35 microns (XP) vs 99% @ 20 microns (FU) in real world driving, can you quantify what that means for a daily driver?

Anecdotal: Our 4-cylinder Camry ran Toyota OEM filters (50% @ 20 microns) and Pennzoil conventional oil every 3-4k and the engine was still purring at 351,000 miles, but rust and a rear main seal leak made it not worth repairing. And, our RX330 just went over 226,000 miles on Toyota OEM filters.


12 Jeep GC, 04 Lexus RX330, 77 MG-B
11 Audi A4, 01 Audi A4
99 Lexus ES300, 98 Isuzu Trooper
94 & 91 Acura Integra, 88 Toyota Camry,
84 Honda Accord, 70 Pontiac LeMans,
62 Ford Galaxy 500
Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: DuckRyder] #4642099
01/21/18 05:29 PM
01/21/18 05:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,399
Atlanta
DuckRyder Offline OP
DuckRyder  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,399
Atlanta
I donít think that is rust on the tapping plate, I noticed that the tapping plate looked sort of dirty but I think it is cardboard from the box mixed with anticorrosive sprayed on.

Wondering about the red stain in the media, I think that may also be a corrosion inhibitor (overspray) but not sure.


Robert
  • 2007 Toyota Prius Touring
  • 2005 Honda Civic Sedan
  • 1972 Ford F100
Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: Pajero] #4642186
01/21/18 07:09 PM
01/21/18 07:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,692
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,692
PNW
Originally Posted By: Pajero
Many people enjoy mocking Fram for the OCOD, yet Fram makes one of the best oil filters on the market (efficiency rating context), aside from the price.

Price of the Ultra is actually very good for what you get. You won't find a cheaper filter with the same construction and efficiency.

Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: newtoncd8] #4642296
01/21/18 08:40 PM
01/21/18 08:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,916
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,916
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: newtoncd8
Originally Posted By: Pajero
The quality of the build is impressive. The filtering not so much!

Many people enjoy mocking Fram for the OCOD, yet Fram makes one of the best oil filters on the market (efficiency rating context), aside from the price.


I have always been curious about this and BITOG stresses how important the micron rating is. 99% @ 35 microns (XP) vs 99% @ 20 microns (FU) in real world driving, can you quantify what that means for a daily driver?

Anecdotal: Our 4-cylinder Camry ran Toyota OEM filters (50% @ 20 microns) and Pennzoil conventional oil every 3-4k and the engine was still purring at 351,000 miles, but rust and a rear main seal leak made it not worth repairing. And, our RX330 just went over 226,000 miles on Toyota OEM filters.


From the literally hundreds of engines I have had apart over the last 45 years I cant honestly say I had one where damage could be attributed to a lower efficiency oil filter media, I have seen a couple of engines where the wrong filter was installed and the engine let go within a few miles but that's another thing.
IMHO a failed ADBV would be of greater concern to me if the engine required it.

Personally based on real world tear down experience of high mileage engines this whole efficiency thing is nothing more than advertising hype with possibly a little horse manure thrown in the mix for good measure.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: Trav] #4642300
01/21/18 08:53 PM
01/21/18 08:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 886
Colorado
newtoncd8 Offline
newtoncd8  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 886
Colorado
Originally Posted By: Trav
Personally based on real world tear down experience of high mileage engines this whole efficiency thing is nothing more than advertising hype with possibly a little horse manure thrown in the mix for good measure.


Thank you for that. I believe I will continue to use the poorly rated Toyota OEM (50% @ 20 micron) filter. My wife wants to make it to 500,000 miles on her RX (as I stated above, her Camry made it to 351,000 miles), so she has a pretty good track record. This time, I am using synthetic oil and 5k oil changes, so we will see how it goes ... thanks again.


12 Jeep GC, 04 Lexus RX330, 77 MG-B
11 Audi A4, 01 Audi A4
99 Lexus ES300, 98 Isuzu Trooper
94 & 91 Acura Integra, 88 Toyota Camry,
84 Honda Accord, 70 Pontiac LeMans,
62 Ford Galaxy 500
Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: Trav] #4642340
01/21/18 09:33 PM
01/21/18 09:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,692
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,692
PNW
Originally Posted By: Trav
From the literally hundreds of engines I have had apart over the last 45 years I cant honestly say I had one where damage could be attributed to a lower efficiency oil filter media.

Visually inspecting for "damage" isn't going to tell you if an inefficient filter resulted in more engine wear. Engine components can visually look fine, but be out of dimensional specs due to wear. If you can see major visual damage, it's from lack of oiling, not lack of filter efficiency unless there was no filter and the oil was loaded with major wear debris.

Originally Posted By: Trav
I have seen a couple of engines where the wrong filter was installed and the engine let go within a few miles but that's another thing.

I'd like to hear the details of that situation.

Originally Posted By: Trav
Personally based on real world tear down experience of high mileage engines this whole efficiency thing is nothing more than advertising hype with possibly a little horse manure thrown in the mix for good measure.

Did you do a controlled experiment with accurate ways to measure wear to conclude that more efficient oil filtets don't prevent as much engine wear? Many experts have (ie, SAE papers), and they always conclude that cleaner oil results in less engine wear.

Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: ZeeOSix] #4642402
01/21/18 10:55 PM
01/21/18 10:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,916
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,916
MA, Mittelfranken.de
New engine measurements and wear limits from Honda FSM. Over 200K km all lubricated parts within new specs using Starrett micrometers (digital and analog).
This engine was owned by me from 0km brand new in crate motorcycle for over 12 years, run on one brand and weight oil except for the break in and Honda oil filters with the exception of a few aftermarket filters when OE was not available.

Engine was totally disassembled for a stretched cam chain, cylinder and pistons removed and cases split. The engine routinely saw 12,000 rpm and high sustained speeds.
What experts? I have SAE access. No dispute oil with few particles will result in less wear but the question is where do the particles come from?

This particular engine is a rare and perfect example for this discussion, it was in the same hand its whole life, taken care of by someone who knew how to and did take care of it and it has a full OCI history.
Another point worth mentioning is this engine was very tight and well protected against stray air ingress and tight ventilation system. The air intakes were located behind the riders legs on the side keeping the airflow to the filters air box low pressure and undisturbed air flow.

As the engine was not wearing to any measurable degree very few particles were being released into the oil, the oil did a good job of keeping carbon of the pistons and skirts.
The only real avenue for particle ingress would have been the air filter which was always replaced sometimes before recommended interval and obviously did its job as no scoring was evident in the soft tri metal bearing overlay.

Basically it would appear this engine could have run with not much more than a screen for an oil filter with no ill effects.
If an engine is leaking unfiltered air like a sieve like some old carburetor engines did from places like carb to air cleaner connection because the gasket was long gone years ago or leaky pcv system then yes I believe a more efficient oil filter would be of some benefit but how much additional engine life will result from it?

Modern engines are very well sealed against unfiltered air ingress and judging by the reduced size of oil filters found on many engines these days the oil filters efficiency is less important than flow through the system.
Some engines like those from VW use a large filter not only for filtering but for additional capacity like on the earlier 1.8 turbo engines.
Using a quality air filter with tight connections and changed on schedule is IMO probably the most important part of keeping particles out of the engine.

The engines I have seen ruined by incorrect oil filters were Fiat diesels that knocked or seized right after an oil and filter change. I have no info on which filter was installed as I didn't install them, I just investigated the damage, the engines and filters were subsequently sent to Fiat through the dealer network.
I did note however the filter that caused the damage had an ADBV in both cases and the OE spec did not indicating this particular engine possibly used a different flow through the filter.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: [Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H [Re: Pajero] #4642474
01/22/18 02:12 AM
01/22/18 02:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,641
vicksburg ms
MetalSlug Offline
MetalSlug  Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,641
vicksburg ms
Originally Posted By: Pajero
The quality of the build is impressive. The filtering not so much!

Many people enjoy mocking Fram for the OCOD, yet Fram makes one of the best oil filters on the market (efficiency rating context), aside from the price.





Respectfully,

Pajero!


Not the best . Mabe mid range . Not high range either . Either low or mid range . Without the ultra fram still having bad rep every where on car forum .

To op that a solid build filter , I am going to use wix xp next . Only reason I was using fram ultra was the synthetic media and WIREBACK . Now I see wix build the same but more solid. It will be my to go filter from now . Wix made one of the best filter on the market . No bad rep any where I go. Fram do have bad rep every where I go.


NO FRAM OCOD " Orange Can Of DEATH ď
03 SVT COBRA 10th anniversary Whipple 600whp M1 5w30 Wix 51372XP
01 Corvette ZO6 stock M1 5w30 / M1-107A
2016 NISSAN TITAN dealer OC daily drive
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™