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GTX HM in OM617? #4641789
01/21/18 10:26 AM
01/21/18 10:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
Alex_V Offline OP
Alex_V  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
A member of a Mercedes Facebook page I'm on recently learned his import shop has been using Castrol high mileage 10w40 in his 5 cyl. turbo diesel, and near as either of us can find this oil is in no way diesel rated or otherwise appropriate for the engine. Is there anything we're missing or is the shop bonkers?

Last edited by Alex_V; 01/21/18 10:27 AM.

To quote a friend, "Synthetics, man."

'85 GMC C3500, 454, 132K
'82 Mercedes 300CD, OM617 turbo, 173K (totaled 2018, in rehab)
'85 Mercedes 300TD, OM617 turbo, 217K (wife's)
'67 Suburban, 350, 331K
Re: GTX HM in OM617? [Re: Alex_V] #4641805
01/21/18 10:52 AM
01/21/18 10:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,288
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,288
New Jersey
Nope.

Unfortunately this was very common back in the day, where a 10w-40 or 20w-50 PCMO would be used in an IDI, because it allowed euro shops to carry fewer options. Ive seen plenty of w123 cars with the old door service sticker showing 20w-50 especially.

An HDEO is better on all accounts, most importantly, dispersancy of the soot that IDI engines produce.

A 15w-40 standard HDEO would be a much better choice.

Re: GTX HM in OM617? [Re: Alex_V] #4641853
01/21/18 11:39 AM
01/21/18 11:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,297
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,297
Cincinnati, OH, USA
My (sold) '82 300D with the OM617 turbo was fed an exclusive diet of Castrol GTX 20W50 by the guy I bought it from. The oil was technically CF rated (believe SL/CF), but it clogged the rings, causing misfiring and excessive blowby. Delvac 1 5W40 and hard running flushed the crud out. PCMOs are a bad idea-maybe it was a central KY thing? My 300D's previous owners were from Paris & Lexington KY.

Last edited by bullwinkle; 01/21/18 11:42 AM.

06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: GTX HM in OM617? [Re: Alex_V] #4641896
01/21/18 12:37 PM
01/21/18 12:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
Alex_V Offline OP
Alex_V  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
Mine started in GA and was in FL up to 2009 - in the service booklet it shows Castrol 20w50, then 15w40 up until the last entry in 2002. It has 165K on it, holds fine oil pressure with 5w40 and doesn't use much at all so it doesn't seem to have hurt it much but the Castrol doesn't seem a sensible choice at all when there are so many other options.


To quote a friend, "Synthetics, man."

'85 GMC C3500, 454, 132K
'82 Mercedes 300CD, OM617 turbo, 173K (totaled 2018, in rehab)
'85 Mercedes 300TD, OM617 turbo, 217K (wife's)
'67 Suburban, 350, 331K
Re: GTX HM in OM617? [Re: Alex_V] #4644587
01/24/18 03:06 AM
01/24/18 03:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,177
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,177
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Alex_V
Is there anything we're missing or is the shop bonkers?

It may fall with API CF, but it would hardly be my first choice. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a 15w-40 HDEO, and they're not expensive.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: GTX HM in OM617? [Re: Alex_V] #4644976
01/24/18 01:14 PM
01/24/18 01:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,297
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,297
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Originally Posted By: Alex_V
Mine started in GA and was in FL up to 2009 - in the service booklet it shows Castrol 20w50, then 15w40 up until the last entry in 2002. It has 165K on it, holds fine oil pressure with 5w40 and doesn't use much at all so it doesn't seem to have hurt it much but the Castrol doesn't seem a sensible choice at all when there are so many other options.
CF will work, I've even used it in my oil leaking F-450 7.3 (which was originally specced SE/CD), but it doesn't have the soot dispersal ability of a true diesel HDEO. My 300D LOVED Delvac 1, but it leaked a lot more with 5W40 than it did with 15W40.


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: GTX HM in OM617? [Re: Alex_V] #4649382
01/28/18 06:07 PM
01/28/18 06:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 432
Stewartstown PA
spiderbypass Offline
spiderbypass  Offline
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 432
Stewartstown PA
Taking Amsoil’s CI4 + oils out of the equation-would new CK4 diesel oils which have noticeably less SAPS content protect an older Diesel engine compared with Mobil 1 15w50 fs or 0w40 FS. They have lots of calcium ZDDP and much higher SAPS content compared with modern hdeo formulations. The 0w40 while on the light side has a noack of 9% which is lower than most 15w40 diesel oils which seem to be between 13-15 percent.


Insecurity with overcompensation are the root of evil deeds.
Re: GTX HM in OM617? [Re: Alex_V] #4652348
01/31/18 05:17 PM
01/31/18 05:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,221
London, England
bigjl Offline
bigjl  Offline
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,221
London, England
What is wrong with 10w40 exactly?

This is the various viscosities for my 2016 S350d



16 S350d LWB 25k Mobil Super 3000 XE 5w30
17 Smart ForFour Auto 6.5k Mobil 1 0w40 FS
Re: GTX HM in OM617? [Re: Alex_V] #4652425
01/31/18 06:14 PM
01/31/18 06:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,297
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,297
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Nothing wrong with MODERN 10W40, there was even a Shell Rotella T5 10W40 here in the USA for a brief period-but back in the pre-1985 days, 10W40 had a lot of VIIs, which weren't the best thing for a diesel (sludge/shearing issues).


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: GTX HM in OM617? [Re: bigjl] #4653215
02/01/18 01:56 PM
02/01/18 01:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,288
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,288
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: bigjl
What is wrong with 10w40 exactly?

This is the various viscosities for my 2016 S350d



229.5x and ACEA Bx are diesel ratings - purpose specific.

A current API SN oil does not carry a diesel rating.

In the US market, HDEOs are designed for diesels, and are a dime a dozen. The add pack for dispersing soot is, IMO more important than any other element. A run of the mill PCMO does not carry those ratings, or necessarily a sufficient add pack - for the same money why not run an oil designed for it.

Especially since were talking a 617; an IDI engine that will load soot much more readily than your S-class. All the more important/reason to use an oil with an add pack best suited.

And D-B had a different viscosity chart for the older vehicles... not THAT different, but it was different.

Re: GTX HM in OM617? [Re: Alex_V] #4657049
02/05/18 02:32 PM
02/05/18 02:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,221
London, England
bigjl Offline
bigjl  Offline
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,221
London, England
These are the various specs in my handbook. I will do some research this week when I have some time but I am sure some of the thicker oils where SN, 5w40s, and I am sure they were also Bx rated oild.

I will double check.



Having only done 6k miles so far i have not done an oil change.

B1 is due in 52days or just over 9k miles. I think the service interval is 15k or 1 year.

What interested me is that Mercedes still advocate the use of what many US based consumers would consider a very thick oil.

Kia dealers in my experience use 5w30 (2 different dealers) but Kia actually recommend 5w20.

I have put in 5w20. It may be my imagination but I think the engine was slightly noisier.

Out of interest would you run a thicker oil in a Mercedes diesel engine?

I am thinking 5w40 or even 5w50.

My only consideration is engine and turbo longevity.

If I accept a contract I have been offered I will be doing 70/80k a year in the Merc almost all on Motorways (Highways) with a projected 3 or 4 year vehicle lifespan.

Last edited by bigjl; 02/05/18 02:45 PM.

16 S350d LWB 25k Mobil Super 3000 XE 5w30
17 Smart ForFour Auto 6.5k Mobil 1 0w40 FS
Re: GTX HM in OM617? [Re: Alex_V] #4657712
02/06/18 08:31 AM
02/06/18 08:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,221
London, England
bigjl Offline
bigjl  Offline
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,221
London, England
This is my intial thoughts for a 5w40

SN, C3 and 229.51


https://www.motul.com/ca/en-US/products/8100-x-clean-5w40

Dont remind me how expensive it is. Hurts everytime people in the US talk about rebates and oil prices in general

Last edited by bigjl; 02/06/18 08:35 AM.

16 S350d LWB 25k Mobil Super 3000 XE 5w30
17 Smart ForFour Auto 6.5k Mobil 1 0w40 FS

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