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Substitute for Ford XT-11-QDC Dual clutch fluid #4640609
01/20/18 03:34 AM
01/20/18 03:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,975
Everett, Washington
oilboy123 Offline OP
oilboy123  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,975
Everett, Washington
I'm on my second fill of this fluid. First was OE fill. Then I changed it out again at about 13K miles. I'm not real happy with the feel of the trans? Does not feel as good as I would like it to. Have about 14,500 miles now.

Amsoil Does not recommend anything they have. I have a 2016 Focus S with manual 5 speed trans. Anybody use anything else like Redline......gasp? My car is under warranty....... but I might try something else anyway. I have seen some mention of back a few years of using Amsoil European oil. But Amsoil has a few different European oils now.

Forgot to add, maybe the trans is not broken in all the way yet. Don't have any experience of a manual trans break in time/miles frame.

Last edited by oilboy123; 01/20/18 03:36 AM.

“Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
― Mark Twain






Re: Substitute for Ford XT-11-QDC Dual clutch fluid [Re: oilboy123] #4640723
01/20/18 09:56 AM
01/20/18 09:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,777
The Midwest
skyactiv Offline
skyactiv  Offline
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,777
The Midwest
Your transmission is broken in. They really don't need a break in period.
Your transmission and shift linkage play a huge role how things feel.
Could be there is no fluid you'll find that will make much of an impact.
Boutique fluids aren't any better from personal experience.
It's hard to go wrong with Redline 75W80 MTL.
Pennzoil synchromesh fluid is cheap and works very, very good in front wheel drive manual transmissions from what I've read.


Retired Chrysler manual transmission engineer.




Last edited by skyactiv; 01/20/18 09:56 AM.

Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 13' VW GTI 3 door 6 speed manual
Re: Substitute for Ford XT-11-QDC Dual clutch fluid [Re: oilboy123] #4640793
01/20/18 10:54 AM
01/20/18 10:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,236
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,236
Iowegia - USA
Try this;

Redline DCT

In my view, the Ford XT-11-QDC DCT is a good fluid.

Last edited by MolaKule; 01/20/18 10:56 AM.

Reading is fundamental; understanding is not a given ability.
Re: Substitute for Ford XT-11-QDC Dual clutch fluid [Re: oilboy123] #4640910
01/20/18 12:57 PM
01/20/18 12:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,743
New York
pbm Online content
pbm  Online Content
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,743
New York
I changed the FF in my 2014 Focus 5 speed M/T at approx. 28K using Volvo 75W MTF which met the Ford spec. for their MT fluid (FORD WSS-M2C200-D2)....the tranny shifts great. I believe this fluid is identical to the FF since Volvo used the MTX-75 in some of their models. It's cheaper online than Ford's stuff....

This stuff also claims to meet the spec. I'll use it next time.
https://www.amazon.com/RAVENOL-J1C1003-Manual-Transmission-Fluid/dp/B00QPCL7ZE?th=1


'Journalism is Dead'
Re: Substitute for Ford XT-11-QDC Dual clutch fluid [Re: oilboy123] #4640925
01/20/18 01:08 PM
01/20/18 01:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,975
Everett, Washington
oilboy123 Offline OP
oilboy123  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,975
Everett, Washington
Yes I might be chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. I realize the Ford DCT fluid is supposed to be good. The trans just feels notchy in certain spots. If there is something that might be better, I'm willing to try it.

Any other thoughts on other fluids? I see the Ford/Getrag M2C-936-A on the Redline bottle. This trans is supposed to be the MTX 75 model that has been around for 20+ years or so. They were specing different fluid for it in other applications before. Oddly enough the Redline site does not list their DCT fluid when I plug my Focus into the product search finder?


This is about the only real info on this I have found:

Here is the list of things Terry Haines had recommended for that transmission:
"DO NOT USE ATF OR EP type oils in ANY MTX-75*
*Friction mod is not needed....unless 'you' have an issue with the lube...Stay away from it if you can*

*MY Choice of lubes in decending order:-

1. Motorcraft 'Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid # XT-M5-QS ('honey')

2. Royal Purple 'Syncromax'

3. AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-40 European Motor Oil

4. (General) A Full Synthetic 5W-40 Diesel Engine oil...which includes:-

Mobil Delvac 1, 5w40 (full synthetic, a reformulated version of Mobil 1 which is intended for diesel engines)
Chevron Delo 400, 5w40 (full synthetic version)
Shell Rotella T (full synthetic version, not to be confused with Rotella SB synthetic blend or regular Rotella T non-synthetic)"Bob the oil guy)

Last edited by oilboy123; 01/20/18 01:14 PM.

“Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
― Mark Twain






Re: Substitute for Ford XT-11-QDC Dual clutch fluid [Re: oilboy123] #4642123
01/21/18 06:01 PM
01/21/18 06:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,236
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,236
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: oilboy123

...*MY Choice of lubes in decending order:-

1. Motorcraft 'Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid # XT-M5-QS ('honey')

2. Royal Purple 'Syncromax'

3. AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-40 European Motor Oil

4. (General) A Full Synthetic 5W-40 Diesel Engine oil...which includes:-

Mobil Delvac 1, 5w40 (full synthetic, a reformulated version of Mobil 1 which is intended for diesel engines)
Chevron Delo 400, 5w40 (full synthetic version)
Shell Rotella T (full synthetic version, not to be confused with Rotella SB synthetic blend or regular Rotella T non-synthetic)"Bob the oil guy)


Items 3 and 4 have too high a viscosity and does not have the proper additive mix for a DCT.

Item 1 has too high a viscosity for a DCT.

Item 2 does not have the proper additive mix for a DCT.

Apparently this Mr. Haines know little about MTF's.


Reading is fundamental; understanding is not a given ability.
Re: Substitute for Ford XT-11-QDC Dual clutch fluid [Re: oilboy123] #4642130
01/21/18 06:10 PM
01/21/18 06:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,060
Vancouver, Canada
jaj Offline
jaj  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,060
Vancouver, Canada
OP has a five-speed manual gearbox, not a DCT. Ford provides XL-18 as an FM to add to QDC for the MT-82 transmission in the Mustang to get it to shift smoothly. XL-18 is straight naphthalene, according to the MSDS.

I suspect that if the OP used QDC and added XL-18 it would solve his shifting problem.

Re: Substitute for Ford XT-11-QDC Dual clutch fluid [Re: oilboy123] #4642389
01/21/18 10:31 PM
01/21/18 10:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,975
Everett, Washington
oilboy123 Offline OP
oilboy123  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,975
Everett, Washington
MolaKule I was thinking initially that the DCT fluid that Ford has was only for the Dual clutch ford trans. Not the 5 speed manual I have. But they spec it for both transmissions.

I was shifting today, and noticing that when I go from 1st, to 2nd gear it seems like you have to wait for the teeth to mesh before it drops into gear easily. Same thing going from 3rd, to 2nd, to 1st.

I'm thinking maybe I'm trying to shove it into the gear before it is ready. I'm hesitant to add a FM to the fluid. Afraid of the negatives it could have. But interesting about it helping.


“Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
― Mark Twain






Re: Substitute for Ford XT-11-QDC Dual clutch fluid [Re: jaj] #4642405
01/21/18 11:03 PM
01/21/18 11:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,236
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,236
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: jaj
OP has a five-speed manual gearbox, not a DCT.


OK, but it wasn't clear from his initial post that it was a non-DCT tranny nor an MT-82 transmission.

Originally Posted By: jaj
XL-18 is straight naphthalene, according to the MSDS.


That doesn't add up.


Originally Posted By: jaj
I suspect that if the OP used QDC and added XL-18 it would solve his shifting problem.


Quite possibly or he simply needs to change fluid, and wait and see if it smooths up with a few more hours of operation. OEM MTF fluids do shear during operation.

A DCT fluid is simply an MTF fluid with an approx. 8 cst viscosity.

Last edited by MolaKule; 01/21/18 11:13 PM.

Reading is fundamental; understanding is not a given ability.
Re: Substitute for Ford XT-11-QDC Dual clutch fluid [Re: oilboy123] #4642443
01/22/18 12:15 AM
01/22/18 12:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,060
Vancouver, Canada
jaj Offline
jaj  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,060
Vancouver, Canada
He wrote "I have a 2016 Focus S with manual 5 speed trans" but it was in the second paragraph.

QDC is a 6.1 cSt fluid, so it's pretty much an LV ATF viscosity with a DCT add pack. It works great in MT's but early MT-82's and now newly rebuilt MT-82's get XL-18 to make them shift better. That's a friction mod issue, and it's added at 1:100 to the base fluid (a 27ml bottle goes into 2.7 litres in an MT82). That naphthalene makes no sense doesn't surprise me, but that's what they MSDS says. $20 for 27ml is a heck of a price for mothballs, let's just say.

Re: Substitute for Ford XT-11-QDC Dual clutch fluid [Re: oilboy123] #4642798
01/22/18 12:05 PM
01/22/18 12:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,743
New York
pbm Online content
pbm  Online Content
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,743
New York
The owners manual for my 5 speed MT 2014 Focus (which I don't have in front of me) is a bit confusing when it recommends "DCT fluid" for the manual transmission. I'm nearly certain that the fluid used in the (terrible) DCT is different than the fluid used in the MT (despite the verbiage in the owners manual which seems to suggest they are the same).

What you need is a 75W, GL4 MTF.....a 75w-80 GL-4 MTF would probably also work....a dedicated DCT fluid would probably cause issues (as you seem to have).

Ford should have been more specific in the OM.

PS: Terry Haines wrote that years ago....I don't know if the MTX-75 in the 2014 Focus is identical to the MTX-75 in a 1996 Contour....


'Journalism is Dead'
Re: Substitute for Ford XT-11-QDC Dual clutch fluid [Re: pbm] #4642936
01/22/18 02:14 PM
01/22/18 02:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,153
The Garden State
Whimsey Offline
Whimsey  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,153
The Garden State
Originally Posted By: pbm
The owners manual for my 5 speed MT 2014 Focus (which I don't have in front of me) is a bit confusing when it recommends "DCT fluid" for the manual transmission. I'm nearly certain that the fluid used in the (terrible) DCT is different than the fluid used in the MT (despite the verbiage in the owners manual which seems to suggest they are the same).

What you need is a 75W, GL4 MTF.....a 75w-80 GL-4 MTF would probably also work....a dedicated DCT fluid would probably cause issues (as you seem to have).

Ford should have been more specific in the OM.

PS: Terry Haines wrote that years ago....I don't know if the MTX-75 in the 2014 Focus is identical to the MTX-75 in a 1996 Contour....


I still own a 1996 Contour with the 5 speed manual MTX transmission. Originally it called for Mercon ATF then I believe in 2000 they back spec'd the fluid in these older manual transmissions to the new Ford synthetic 75W-90 transmission fluid.
Whimsey

Re: Substitute for Ford XT-11-QDC Dual clutch fluid [Re: oilboy123] #4643208
01/22/18 06:24 PM
01/22/18 06:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,236
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,236
Iowegia - USA
Here is list of MT fluids with [email protected] from 6.X to 9.5 cSt:

NOTE: This list is only a “suggested” list of MTFs. It is not an endorsement of any one fluid, nor is it implied that any one fluid will cure problems in MTs that have design problems or those that have excessive wear.

A. These LV MTL fluids are closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.X [email protected] (About the same viscosity as a Dexron VI) and SAE 70 or so are:

1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W,
2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3,
3. Honda MTII or MTF 2.
4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC
5. Volvo Manual Transmission Fluid (6.4 cSt) [Recommended for: type M65 5-speed with 6-cyl. engine, M66, MTX75 and MMT6 and of the type M56, M58 and M59 from and including model year 1996. Meets Ford specification WSSM2C200-D2]


B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.0 to 7.6 [email protected] versions [SAE 70W75] (About the same viscosity as the original DexronIII/Merc)

1. Royal Purple's Synchromax
2. Ravenol MTF-2
3. Honda MTF
4. VW part number G052512A2
5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid
6. BMW (Pentosin MTF 2) MTF-LT-1, 2 ,3
7. Tutelo (Petronus, Italy, Product Code 1402)
8. Pentosin Pro Gear 70W75 (Australia)
9. Pentosin FFL-4
10. Redline Power Steering Fluid
11. RAVENOL STF



C. The next higher viscosity MTL group is in the 8.0 cSt to 8.9 cSt Range would be:

1. Castrol Syntrans V FE (8.0cSt)
2. Redline DCTF Dual Clutch Transmission Fluid (8.1 cSt)
3. The next higher viscosity would be BG Synchroshift II (8.2 cSt)
4. RAVENOL PSA


D. The next higher viscosity MTL group in the 9.0 to 9.5 cSt range is

1. Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0 cSt
2. Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 9.2 cSt
3. Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt
4. RAVENOL PSA 9.5 cSt
5. RAVENOL SSG 9.5 cSt

Last edited by MolaKule; 01/22/18 06:25 PM.

Reading is fundamental; understanding is not a given ability.

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