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M1 0-40, 1.8k, 2006 STi, E85 #4639103
01/18/18 07:18 PM
01/18/18 07:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 94
SWFL
chado_skins Offline OP
chado_skins  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 94
SWFL
this was my first full OCI with full E85. i run E85 24/7, current ethanol content around 80%. ran it short to get a base line. this OCI had more than the normal amount of WOT 4th gear pulls. in the process of remote tuning, and try to diag a boost issues that only arises at full boost and high RPM. i'm guessing that's where some of the higher wear numbers are coming from. i was bit nervous when i drained the oil, because it smelled of straight up ethanol. but everything looks to be in order. i'm going to go out to 3K per their recommendation. (400whp).

COmments:

A full run on E85 didn't affect the oils physical properties to any noticeable extent. The viscosity is well within range for 0/40 and the insolubles level shows a low amount of oxidized solids built up in the oil. E85 use shouldn't directly impact wear metals, but the increased power could lead to wear. Metals are a little higher than we've seen in the past after a shorter oil run, but nothing inceased enough suspect poor wear or a problem, either. The TBN is very strong thanks to the short run, Give 3000 miles a try for the next run.

Code:
Oil Type: M10-40
Make up oil used: 0
Miles unit:     35,850         30.667k    24.879k
Mileage oil:     1,850         3395       3417
Date:             1/18         7/16       5/17      AVG(5/17) AVG (1/18)

Aluminum           5            2           3        4         4
Chromium           1            1           1        2         1
Iron               8            6           7        20        9
Copper             13           6           6        10        8
Lead               1            1           1        1         2
Tin                0            1           0        0         1
Molybdenum         89           66          60       77        74
Nickel             0            1           0        0         0
Manganese          0            0           0        0         2
Silver             0            0           0        0         1
Titanium           0            0           0        0         1
Potassium          4            0           1        1         3
Boron              194          201         49       136       51
Silicon            8            30          11       18        10 
Sodium             5            6           4        4         29
Calcium            2814         2750        1098     2083      1839
Magnesium          18           24          585      387       433
Phosphorus         954          848         583      777       848
Zinc               1093         937         717      944       1007
Barium             0            0           0        0         0

[email protected] 210F          70.1         62.5        57.2     63-76
cSt @100C          12.99        10.93       9.42     11.1-14.8
Flashpoint         430          395         385      >375
Fuel %             <.5          <.5         <.5      <2
Antifreeze %       0            0           0        0
Water %            0            0           0        0
Insolubles %       .2          .2          .2       <.6
TBN                8.8          7                    >1




i noticed the unverisal averages changed since my last UOA, so i threw them in there. is that normal in just an eight month period? some of them fell by half.

Re: M1 0-40, 1.8k, 2006 STi, E85 [Re: chado_skins] #4639310
01/18/18 10:16 PM
01/18/18 10:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 542
Texas (south)
FermeLaPorte Offline
FermeLaPorte  Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 542
Texas (south)
try 15w40 hdeo


Always Mobil 1
2014 1.6L Nissan Versa Sedan, 5 spd, 5k OCI.
2011 3.5L Chevrolet Impala, Automatic, 5k OCI.
Re: M1 0-40, 1.8k, 2006 STi, E85 [Re: FermeLaPorte] #4639402
01/18/18 11:37 PM
01/18/18 11:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,270
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,270
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: chado_skins
400whp

400 rwhp?
How are you keeping it alive?

Originally Posted By: FermeLaPorte
try 15w40 hdeo


If you are changing it often, I'd have to agree with this suggestion.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: M1 0-40, 1.8k, 2006 STi, E85 [Re: Linctex] #4639632
01/19/18 08:42 AM
01/19/18 08:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 94
SWFL
chado_skins Offline OP
chado_skins  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 94
SWFL
Originally Posted By: Linctex

400 rwhp?
How are you keeping it alive?



awhp. lots of fuel and air

Re: M1 0-40, 1.8k, 2006 STi, E85 [Re: chado_skins] #4639771
01/19/18 11:18 AM
01/19/18 11:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,864
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,864
Idaho
400 Hp WOT produces quite the load on the engine etc..


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: M1 0-40, 1.8k, 2006 STi, E85 [Re: chado_skins] #4639780
01/19/18 11:25 AM
01/19/18 11:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,117
Virginia
bigt61 Offline
bigt61  Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,117
Virginia
#'s look good. Your 3k OCI plan sounds reasonable if you're sticking with E85.


92 Suburban 2500 7.4L 58k M1_0w40 5yr OCI
99 Olds Aurora 4.0L 91K M1_5w30 5yr OCI
13 Dodge Dart 2.0L 30k PP 0w20 OLM OCI
70 Camaro 5.7L 59k
Re: M1 0-40, 1.8k, 2006 STi, E85 [Re: CT8] #4640496
01/19/18 10:22 PM
01/19/18 10:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 94
SWFL
chado_skins Offline OP
chado_skins  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 94
SWFL
Originally Posted By: CT8
400 Hp WOT produces quite the load on the engine etc..


true. the car is my daily, and the engine is completely stock. i'm not sure how long it'll live at this power level, but i'm prepared if it decides to give up the ghost.

Re: M1 0-40, 1.8k, 2006 STi, E85 [Re: bigt61] #4640498
01/19/18 10:25 PM
01/19/18 10:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 94
SWFL
chado_skins Offline OP
chado_skins  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 94
SWFL
Originally Posted By: bigt61
#'s look good. Your 3k OCI plan sounds reasonable if you're sticking with E85.


yes i have e85 readily available here, so i'll be running full time. i can live with 3k mile oil changes.

for anyone that runs that short of an OCI, do you change the filter every time? i'm running a fram ultra synthetic, wondering if i could change the filter every other OCI?

Re: M1 0-40, 1.8k, 2006 STi, E85 [Re: chado_skins] #4641388
01/20/18 10:08 PM
01/20/18 10:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 16
San Diego CA
2zrVios Offline
2zrVios  Offline
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 16
San Diego CA
Knowing the EJ commonly fails in 2 ways, Piston and Rod bearing. The increase in copper concerns me, but I'm no professional.

Re: M1 0-40, 1.8k, 2006 STi, E85 [Re: 2zrVios] #4641399
01/20/18 10:18 PM
01/20/18 10:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 94
SWFL
chado_skins Offline OP
chado_skins  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 94
SWFL
Originally Posted By: 2zrVios
Knowing the EJ commonly fails in 2 ways, Piston and Rod bearing. The increase in copper concerns me, but I'm no professional.



yes i believe the stock bearings are made of copper, and this was also a thought of mine. i'm going to keep an eye on things and see what happens wear wise. ringlands are the biggest weak link in the 2.5 i believe, but i believe that's related mostly to knock. the stock pistons just don't like it. ethanol should take care of that, it's virtually knock proof and the car is custom tuned and i monitor the snot out of it daily. the oil seems to be doing it's job, so i don't really see a need to change at this point, as was mentioned i just may be at the threshold of where this stock engine just doesn't like this much power.

Re: M1 0-40, 1.8k, 2006 STi, E85 [Re: chado_skins] #4643721
01/23/18 08:45 AM
01/23/18 08:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,296
NJ
bluesubie Offline
bluesubie  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,296
NJ
By "remote tuning" I presume this is the same as e-tuning? From the benefit of others, this would consist of the tuner sending a tune over email, you installing in the car, datalogging, and sending the datalog back to the tuner. You're probably right that this is where the wear came from. How many times do you estimate that you did this?

Be careful extending your OCI's based on good uoa's or advice here on bitog. I did that and it was very expensive (turbo failure). Didn't this model year have the turbo and AVCS banjo bolt screens? Are you still running them? And play it safe by changing the oil filter. On a stock STI of this model year, Subaru recommends 3,750 mile OCI on a stock car due to the screens.


'04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Castrol Edge High Mileage
Re: M1 0-40, 1.8k, 2006 STi, E85 [Re: bluesubie] #4644478
01/23/18 10:08 PM
01/23/18 10:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 94
SWFL
chado_skins Offline OP
chado_skins  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 94
SWFL
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
By "remote tuning" I presume this is the same as e-tuning? From the benefit of others, this would consist of the tuner sending a tune over email, you installing in the car, datalogging, and sending the datalog back to the tuner. You're probably right that this is where the wear came from. How many times do you estimate that you did this?

Be careful extending your OCI's based on good uoa's or advice here on bitog. I did that and it was very expensive (turbo failure). Didn't this model year have the turbo and AVCS banjo bolt screens? Are you still running them? And play it safe by changing the oil filter. On a stock STI of this model year, Subaru recommends 3,750 mile OCI on a stock car due to the screens.



yes remote tuning is the same as E tuning, datalog, revise, flash datalog. the final number of revisions is over 20, but not all of them were on this OCI. probably the last 5-7 i'd guess. but in the course of this last OCI, i was also chasing a boost issue that only happened at WOT at higher RPM, so in order to trouble shoot i was constantly in that part of the power band. i'm going to try and tame it down this OCI and see if copper comes back down.

yes this model has the turbo filter screen, i already removed that and upgraded the turbo oil feed line.

Re: M1 0-40, 1.8k, 2006 STi, E85 [Re: chado_skins] #4644777
01/24/18 10:06 AM
01/24/18 10:06 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,296
NJ
bluesubie Offline
bluesubie  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,296
NJ
I've always thought that e-tuning was a headache. Maybe because there are so many good dyno/street tuners in this area. shrug I'd probably go with something more robust if your wear numbers don't come down. Not that you need a 0W in SWFL anyway.

<----lives life dangerously running a Cobb AP OTS tune and still has all banjo bolt screens. smile2

Last edited by bluesubie; 01/24/18 10:07 AM.

'04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Castrol Edge High Mileage
Re: M1 0-40, 1.8k, 2006 STi, E85 [Re: bluesubie] #4645438
01/24/18 10:23 PM
01/24/18 10:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 94
SWFL
chado_skins Offline OP
chado_skins  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 94
SWFL
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
I've always thought that e-tuning was a headache. Maybe because there are so many good dyno/street tuners in this area. shrug I'd probably go with something more robust if your wear numbers don't come down. Not that you need a 0W in SWFL anyway.

<----lives life dangerously running a Cobb AP OTS tune and still has all banjo bolt screens. smile2



i've done dyno tunes in the past, and i prefer e tuning. unless you're spending ungodly amounts of money for dyno time to dial in the perfect timing map for every RPM range, chances are you get three pulls and done. this map was actually less than a dyno tune, and it's a flex fuel tune. and the way it's tuned is exactly how it's driven on the street, not a simulated environment like the dyno. if i run into an issue, like i did with holding boost, on a dyno unless you can fix it FAST (usually with texa$) your SOL. on the etune he'll give me a chance to fix it, and continue tuning. he hasn't asked for extra money throughout the whole process. i still think the dyno has it's place, but i'm really liking my e tune from eric minehart.

when i first moved down here about a year ago i considered dropping the 0W and going with a 10, but if it works it works. i like the idea that the oil is nice and thin at startup, and comes to temp faster than an oil of a high weight would, whether it actually does anything wear wise is probably debatable.

Re: M1 0-40, 1.8k, 2006 STi, E85 [Re: chado_skins] #4645477
01/24/18 11:20 PM
01/24/18 11:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,940
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,940
'Stralia
Actually, a slightly thicker oil will come to temperature faster. And the "0W" is really only "thinner" at the pumpability limit range, which is what the "W" ratings are there for.

For example, M1 10W30 High Mileage is around the same viscosity as your 0W40 at your sort of stating temperatures, and is likely to be a more shear stable product across the board.

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