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So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's #4637558
01/17/18 11:03 AM
01/17/18 11:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 3,929
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Online content OP
Snagglefoot  Online Content OP

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 3,929
SE British Columbia, Canada
I get it that we are looking for Iron ppm as a wear indicator but what are the other main tipoffs when are trying to assess if a particular oil and OCI is protecting our engines. Thanks.

SF Coffee


If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Snagglefoot] #4637577
01/17/18 11:30 AM
01/17/18 11:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,810
Texas
440Magnum Offline
440Magnum  Offline

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,810
Texas
A sudden change from one UOA to the next is really the only reliable clue. Everything else depends so much on engine type, details of internal configuration, materials used, etc. that the absolute numbers aren't much use. A big-block v8 with 4+ inch bores is probably going to have a higher iron percentage than a small bore 4-cylinder with a similar sized oil sump, even if the actual wear per millimeter of ring circumference is the same or even a little lower in the v8.


'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 XJ 4x4 4.0/AX15, '14 WK2 4x4 3.6/8HP
Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Snagglefoot] #4637581
01/17/18 11:34 AM
01/17/18 11:34 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,613
lllinois
salesrep Offline
salesrep  Offline

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,613
lllinois
440magnum pegged it. One must get a baseline and look for any changes from established data.


High quality Specialized Lubricants pay for themselves!
Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Snagglefoot] #4637585
01/17/18 11:35 AM
01/17/18 11:35 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,857
out there
spasm3 Offline
spasm3  Offline

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,857
out there
Unless there is some sudden high number, coolant or fuel dilution, i'm not sure how to gauge engine wear. I think of a uoa as a measure of how the oil is holding up and its basic components.

Last edited by spasm3; 01/17/18 11:36 AM.

13 elantra 75k 5w30 QSUD
03 chevy avalanche 80k synpwr 5w30
17 mazda cx-5 9500 miles m1 0w30
Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Snagglefoot] #4637594
01/17/18 11:45 AM
01/17/18 11:45 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 21,850
Upstate NY
Donald Online content
Donald  Online Content

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 21,850
Upstate NY
If you see copper or lead more than very low numbers (and have no oil cooler) then that is a good indication you have bearing that are wearing.

Baseline is good for iron. Also aluminum.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Snagglefoot] #4637619
01/17/18 12:12 PM
01/17/18 12:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,467
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,467
Where the wind comes sweepin'
This makes me wish we had a sticky thread with links to all the bad UOAs posted to the site. I know they are out there but finding them may not be easy.


The ones I recall were:

Some guy with a newish motorcycle had some super high Aluminum or Copper numbers but he said the bike was OK.

One where it was very obvious that coolant was finding it's way into the oil.


For us motorcycle people, we also look at the cSt @ 100 value to see if the oil has sheared down past the original viscosity. I have one posted UOA showing where my Triumph sheared Rotella T6 5W40 to a 30wt in under 1k miles.

Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Donald] #4637622
01/17/18 12:16 PM
01/17/18 12:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 14,127
Illinois
tig1 Offline
tig1  Offline

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 14,127
Illinois
These types of UOA are more suited to determine the condition of the oil. For example, coolant, fuel, and dirt contamination. Showing engine wear, not much help there.
Originally Posted By: Donald
If you see copper or lead more than very low numbers (and have no oil cooler) then that is a good indication you have bearing that are wearing.

Baseline is good for iron. Also aluminum.


And if your engine bearings are into the copper, then most likely oil pressure will be dropping and the lower end will start becoming noisy.


2007 Ford Fusion 239,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 67K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Snagglefoot] #4637624
01/17/18 12:18 PM
01/17/18 12:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 14,127
Illinois
tig1 Offline
tig1  Offline

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 14,127
Illinois
These types of UOA are more suited for showing the condition of the oil, like dirt, coolant, and fuel contamination. Not so much for engine wear.


2007 Ford Fusion 239,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 67K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Snagglefoot] #4637727
01/17/18 02:07 PM
01/17/18 02:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline
OneEyeJack  Offline

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
Look for trends and changes. Post you UOA here. Do some research. It's called fun.

Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Snagglefoot] #4637765
01/17/18 02:50 PM
01/17/18 02:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,492
Illinois
mrsilv04 Offline
mrsilv04  Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,492
Illinois
Here's a snippet of one with an "indicator"...



2004 Silverado - on its 3rd Jasper engine in less than one year.
Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Snagglefoot] #4637773
01/17/18 03:01 PM
01/17/18 03:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,613
lllinois
salesrep Offline
salesrep  Offline

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,613
lllinois
potassium


High quality Specialized Lubricants pay for themselves!
Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Donald] #4637832
01/17/18 04:19 PM
01/17/18 04:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,810
Texas
440Magnum Offline
440Magnum  Offline

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,810
Texas
Originally Posted By: Donald
If you see copper or lead more than very low numbers (and have no oil cooler) then that is a good indication you have bearing that are wearing.

Baseline is good for iron. Also aluminum.



Except for engines that don't even have copper or lead in the bearings. There are aluminum bearing engines out there with no copper or lead involved...

Quoting http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2012/10/getting-your-bearings/

"As most engine builders know, modern engines (late 90s and newer) use bi-metal aluminum bearings, but each manufacturer has its own recipe for the construction and characteristics they are looking for. The basic construction is a steel back with a layer of silicone-aluminum facing the crankshaft."


'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 XJ 4x4 4.0/AX15, '14 WK2 4x4 3.6/8HP
Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Reddy45] #4638096
01/17/18 08:07 PM
01/17/18 08:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,017
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,017
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Reddy45

Some guy with a newish motorcycle had some super high Aluminum or Copper numbers but he said the bike was OK.


I think that was a brand new Moto Guzzi


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
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