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#4637558 - 01/17/18 10:03 AM So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's
Snagglefoot Online   content


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1719
Loc: Alberta
I get it that we are looking for Iron ppm as a wear indicator but what are the other main tipoffs when are trying to assess if a particular oil and OCI is protecting our engines. Thanks.

SF Coffee

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#4637577 - 01/17/18 10:30 AM Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Snagglefoot]
440Magnum Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 8754
Loc: Texas
A sudden change from one UOA to the next is really the only reliable clue. Everything else depends so much on engine type, details of internal configuration, materials used, etc. that the absolute numbers aren't much use. A big-block v8 with 4+ inch bores is probably going to have a higher iron percentage than a small bore 4-cylinder with a similar sized oil sump, even if the actual wear per millimeter of ring circumference is the same or even a little lower in the v8.
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'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
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#4637581 - 01/17/18 10:34 AM Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Snagglefoot]
salesrep Offline


Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 3600
Loc: lllinois
440magnum pegged it. One must get a baseline and look for any changes from established data.
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#4637585 - 01/17/18 10:35 AM Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Snagglefoot]
spasm3 Offline


Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 8651
Loc: North Carolina
Unless there is some sudden high number, coolant or fuel dilution, i'm not sure how to gauge engine wear. I think of a uoa as a measure of how the oil is holding up and its basic components.


Edited by spasm3 (01/17/18 10:36 AM)
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13 elantra 68k 5w30 QSUD
03 chevy avalanche76k synpwr 10w30
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#4637594 - 01/17/18 10:45 AM Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Snagglefoot]
Donald Online   content


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 20456
Loc: Upstate NY
If you see copper or lead more than very low numbers (and have no oil cooler) then that is a good indication you have bearing that are wearing.

Baseline is good for iron. Also aluminum.
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#4637619 - 01/17/18 11:12 AM Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Snagglefoot]
Reddy45 Offline


Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 2968
Loc: USA
This makes me wish we had a sticky thread with links to all the bad UOAs posted to the site. I know they are out there but finding them may not be easy.


The ones I recall were:

Some guy with a newish motorcycle had some super high Aluminum or Copper numbers but he said the bike was OK.

One where it was very obvious that coolant was finding it's way into the oil.


For us motorcycle people, we also look at the cSt @ 100 value to see if the oil has sheared down past the original viscosity. I have one posted UOA showing where my Triumph sheared Rotella T6 5W40 to a 30wt in under 1k miles.

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#4637622 - 01/17/18 11:16 AM Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Donald]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 13661
Loc: Illinois
These types of UOA are more suited to determine the condition of the oil. For example, coolant, fuel, and dirt contamination. Showing engine wear, not much help there.
Originally Posted By: Donald
If you see copper or lead more than very low numbers (and have no oil cooler) then that is a good indication you have bearing that are wearing.

Baseline is good for iron. Also aluminum.


And if your engine bearings are into the copper, then most likely oil pressure will be dropping and the lower end will start becoming noisy.
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 227,000 miles
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10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and MC LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
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#4637624 - 01/17/18 11:18 AM Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Snagglefoot]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 13661
Loc: Illinois
These types of UOA are more suited for showing the condition of the oil, like dirt, coolant, and fuel contamination. Not so much for engine wear.
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 227,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 49K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and MC LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters


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#4637727 - 01/17/18 01:07 PM Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Snagglefoot]
OneEyeJack Offline


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 7479
Loc: S California
Look for trends and changes. Post you UOA here. Do some research. It's called fun.

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#4637765 - 01/17/18 01:50 PM Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Snagglefoot]
mrsilv04 Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 8269
Loc: Illinois
Here's a snippet of one with an "indicator"...

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#4637773 - 01/17/18 02:01 PM Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Snagglefoot]
salesrep Offline


Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 3600
Loc: lllinois
potassium
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#4637832 - 01/17/18 03:19 PM Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Donald]
440Magnum Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 8754
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Donald
If you see copper or lead more than very low numbers (and have no oil cooler) then that is a good indication you have bearing that are wearing.

Baseline is good for iron. Also aluminum.



Except for engines that don't even have copper or lead in the bearings. There are aluminum bearing engines out there with no copper or lead involved...

Quoting http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2012/10/getting-your-bearings/

"As most engine builders know, modern engines (late 90s and newer) use bi-metal aluminum bearings, but each manufacturer has its own recipe for the construction and characteristics they are looking for. The basic construction is a steel back with a layer of silicone-aluminum facing the crankshaft."
_________________________
'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 XJ 4x4 4.0/AX15, '14 WK2 4x4 3.6/8HP

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#4638096 - 01/17/18 07:07 PM Re: So what are the main wear indicators with UOA's [Re: Reddy45]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Reddy45

Some guy with a newish motorcycle had some super high Aluminum or Copper numbers but he said the bike was OK.


I think that was a brand new Moto Guzzi
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(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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