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Basement Framing #4637502
01/17/18 09:44 AM
01/17/18 09:44 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,307
MD
ET16 Offline OP
ET16  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,307
MD
I'm in the middle of a basement framing project. I've got some semi-skilled guys on the job and am in a bit of a quandary about the quality and speed of their work. I know many of the basics of framing and have been advising on some things, but I don't know how far I want to go with criticizing their work. For example, they just finished framing for pre-hung closet doors. I was looking at the header this morning and realized that the whole thing is relying on construction screws to mitigate any potential sagging. There are no jack studs and there is only one 2x4 spanning the 5' opening for the header which is screwed to the king studs. Cripple studs are screwed into the header board and are anchored into a joist above.

I wouldn't have built the opening this way; I would have designed it to be under compression, but it's non-load bearing, so it may suffice as it is. If it were put together with nails, I don't think I'd let it go. I've never framed with screws, so I don't know if my concerns are a result of incomplete knowledge.

Any opinions?

Re: Basement Framing [Re: ET16] #4637530
01/17/18 10:27 AM
01/17/18 10:27 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,992
America
Alfred_B Offline
Alfred_B  Offline
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,992
America
I have always been surprised at the lack of respect for their own output by people who claim to be in trades.

It's not load bearing so it may be OK for the foreseeable future. But not good for the long term.

Re: Basement Framing [Re: ET16] #4637534
01/17/18 10:31 AM
01/17/18 10:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 189
Wisconsin
emmett442 Offline
emmett442  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 189
Wisconsin
As mentioned, the header isn't supporting anything in this application. It's more to provide a place to attach the door frame and drywall.

Perfectly acceptable and typical of what you'll find in any finished basement.


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Re: Basement Framing [Re: ET16] #4637556
01/17/18 10:59 AM
01/17/18 10:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,832
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,832
Idaho
You are paying for the job, get it done how you want it done.


"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."
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Re: Basement Framing [Re: ET16] #4637596
01/17/18 11:49 AM
01/17/18 11:49 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,192
Ontario, Canada
IndyIan Offline
IndyIan  Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,192
Ontario, Canada
2 screws per stud atleast? I guess for a closet it would be fine, not for a people door though. Screws hold alot better but for a door that could get slammed the extra wood is a good idea.
I messed up some framing to cover the vent pipe at our knee wall that I put together with screws and it was quite tough to dismantle with a framing hammer...


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Re: Basement Framing [Re: emmett442] #4637638
01/17/18 12:29 PM
01/17/18 12:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: emmett442
As mentioned, the header isn't supporting anything in this application. It's more to provide a place to attach the door frame and drywall. Perfectly acceptable and typical of what you'll find in any finished basement.


Correct.


Your basement was already 100% structurally sound before any finish work began, remember?

They aren't adding "load bearing structure".

There's no need for it; it's already been done before the project began.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Basement Framing [Re: ET16] #4637647
01/17/18 12:39 PM
01/17/18 12:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,401
Soviet State of Washington
PimTac Online content
PimTac  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,401
Soviet State of Washington
If these are off the street hires your contractor is bringing in then calling them framers is an insult to the real framers in this world.

Workers who cut out joists entirely to fit plumbing through or to make room donít care about structural integrity ten years down the line. Itís a real shame.


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Re: Basement Framing [Re: ET16] #4637669
01/17/18 01:00 PM
01/17/18 01:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,307
MD
ET16 Offline OP
ET16  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,307
MD
Thanks for the replies. I was looking at it again. I guess it'll be okay. It's one of those cases where I know just enough to get me into trouble. I recognize that there isn't any real load here, but I thought the way it was framed there could be a little sagging long-term, which could affect the door frame.

Re: Basement Framing [Re: ET16] #4637702
01/17/18 01:38 PM
01/17/18 01:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 683
South Carolina
eyeofthetiger Offline
eyeofthetiger  Offline
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 683
South Carolina
It will be okay, but it is not up to my standards. I like 2x4 framing with studs 8" on center, triple headers, quadruple corners, secured with 3" screws and additional metal strapping and corner braces.


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Re: Basement Framing [Re: eyeofthetiger] #4637716
01/17/18 01:49 PM
01/17/18 01:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 189
Wisconsin
emmett442 Offline
emmett442  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 189
Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: eyeofthetiger
It will be okay, but it is not up to my standards. I like 2x4 framing with studs 8" on center, triple headers, quadruple corners, secured with 3" screws and additional metal strapping and corner braces.


laugh


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Re: Basement Framing [Re: emmett442] #4637717
01/17/18 01:50 PM
01/17/18 01:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,345
Chicago,IL,USA
pandus13 Offline
pandus13  Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,345
Chicago,IL,USA
Originally Posted By: emmett442
Originally Posted By: eyeofthetiger
It will be okay, but it is not up to my standards. I like 2x4 framing with studs 8" on center, triple headers, quadruple corners, secured with 3" screws and additional metal strapping and corner braces.


laugh

Do you have any bears in the family? or sumo wrestlers? earth-movers?


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Re: Basement Framing [Re: ET16] #4637720
01/17/18 01:54 PM
01/17/18 01:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 189
Wisconsin
emmett442 Offline
emmett442  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 189
Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: ET16
I thought the way it was framed there could be a little sagging long-term, which could affect the door frame.


Once the drywall is attached, it'll be all tied together anyway. Yes, I know, drywall isn't a real framing material - but for the loads in question (which is simply the weight of the drywall you'll be attaching to your framing), it's plenty sufficient. Think about it : if you'd stand a 4x8 sheet of drywall vertical, and support it only on each bottom corner, the span between the corners would never sag. Vertically hanging drywall is plenty rigid to support itself. Extra framing not required.

Again, your wall framing is merely a square and flat surface to screw your drywall and utilities to. Nothing more. It bears no load. But, if it bothers you, "fix" it.

The only time you really have to worry about structure and sag is the ceiling (drywall is weak in this dimension) and traditional doorways that can rack/shake from a operating door, especially when "slammed". Even then, not much is required. a doubled up 2.4 works fine.


2011 Ford Crown Victoria LX 4.6L V8 auto
2009 Chevrolet Malibu LT 2.4L I4 auto
1974 Dodge D200 360 V8 4 speed manual
Re: Basement Framing [Re: ET16] #4637776
01/17/18 03:04 PM
01/17/18 03:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 313
NJ
JLawrence08648 Offline
JLawrence08648  Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 313
NJ
I am not a carpenter just a diy and handyman. I'm afraid it will bow in the middle. I'd go with at least a 2x6 if not a 2x8. If it bows then what will you do? At the very least sister on another 2x4. With the weight of the above studs, sheetrock, tape, spackle, paint, that's a lot of weight. And check square by putting a 4' level in the middle, on the end studs, and a square in the corners.

Re: Basement Framing [Re: eyeofthetiger] #4637875
01/17/18 05:11 PM
01/17/18 05:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,155
Oshawa, Ontario Canada
JC1 Offline
JC1  Offline
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,155
Oshawa, Ontario Canada
8" on center? Do you own a lumber company? Usual framing is 16" or 24" on center.


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Re: Basement Framing [Re: JC1] #4637896
01/17/18 05:32 PM
01/17/18 05:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,345
Chicago,IL,USA
pandus13 Offline
pandus13  Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,345
Chicago,IL,USA
Originally Posted By: JC1
8" on center? Do you own a lumber company? Usual framing is 16" or 24" on center.

Relax.
It was a joke. Who uses 3" screws?


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