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#4637444 - 01/17/18 07:39 AM Philly- safe injection site for opiod users
Mr Nice Offline


Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 21196
Loc: Orlando, FL
Philly officials propose safe injection site for opioid users.

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/op...gs-to-know.html

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#4637510 - 01/17/18 09:00 AM Re: Philly- safe injection site for opiod users [Re: Mr Nice]
Oldtom Offline


Registered: 07/05/14
Posts: 329
Loc: Cecil County Maryland
Sooo let me see if I understand this ..... Money looted from working tax payers will be used to reanimate opiod zombies with Narcan, who will repay the favor by burglarizing the homes of the tax payers who paid to reanimate them.

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#4637513 - 01/17/18 09:04 AM Re: Philly- safe injection site for opiod users [Re: Mr Nice]
UberArchetype Offline


Registered: 07/13/17
Posts: 105
Loc: CO
Why solve problems when we can use them to stimulate the economy treating symptoms? Think of all the jobs and money spent running the injection sites.

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#4637541 - 01/17/18 09:36 AM Re: Philly- safe injection site for opiod users [Re: Oldtom]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 10979
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: Oldtom
Sooo let me see if I understand this ..... Money looted from working tax payers will be used to reanimate opiod zombies with Narcan, who will repay the favor by burglarizing the homes of the tax payers who paid to reanimate them.

I thank you!!! Drug use turns people into zombies.
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#4637547 - 01/17/18 09:45 AM Re: Philly- safe injection site for opiod users [Re: UberArchetype]
DoubleWasp Offline


Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 5236
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Originally Posted By: UberArchetype
Why solve problems when we can use them to stimulate the economy treating symptoms? Think of all the jobs and money spent running the injection sites.


That's the rub right there. There isn't a solution.

Losing the "War" on drugs has changed a lot of policies.
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#4637564 - 01/17/18 10:12 AM Re: Philly- safe injection site for opiod users [Re: Oldtom]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 18885
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: Oldtom
Sooo let me see if I understand this ..... Money looted from working tax payers will be used to reanimate opiod zombies with Narcan, who will repay the favor by burglarizing the homes of the tax payers who paid to reanimate them.

That seems to be about the size of it. An ER nurse we know recounted about one guy they picked up OD'd in front of DD, after treatment in the ER a few hours later the picked him up again OD'd in a HD bathroom, after her shift ended he was back in that night.
What the heck is going on with these people and whats the answer? I can see in a small town with limited resources finding themselves in a real moral dilemma if a situation arose where there was say a bad accident that required all available resources then this guy pulls another stunt.

Is the answer to prioritize first come first served or let the dope fiend hang on til we have the ability or get a surrounding community service to handle him that may be too late? I don't know, thankfully I don't have to make that decision just some thoughts.

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#4637567 - 01/17/18 10:15 AM Re: Philly- safe injection site for opiod users [Re: DoubleWasp]
UberArchetype Offline


Registered: 07/13/17
Posts: 105
Loc: CO
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
That's the rub right there. There isn't a solution.

That's quite the defeatist POV. Actually solving problems involves tracing them to their source, among other things. But nobody wants to admit the pharmaceutical industry is the biggest single factor poisoning our society right now - everything from peddling drugs to consumers on TV to insanely expensive cancer chemo drugs that don't work.

Opiates are just the currently obvious problem.


Edited by UberArchetype (01/17/18 10:19 AM)

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#4637570 - 01/17/18 10:20 AM Re: Philly- safe injection site for opiod users [Re: Oldtom]
salesrep Offline


Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 3600
Loc: lllinois
Originally Posted By: Oldtom
Sooo let me see if I understand this ..... Money looted from working tax payers will be used to reanimate opiod zombies with Narcan, who will repay the favor by burglarizing the homes of the tax payers who paid to reanimate them.


Just flat crazy to think the problem can be solved by enabling.


Edited by salesrep (01/17/18 10:21 AM)
Edit Reason: add
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#4637579 - 01/17/18 10:33 AM Re: Philly- safe injection site for opiod users [Re: Mr Nice]
Nickdfresh Offline


Registered: 03/15/06
Posts: 5615
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Almost every study ever conducted of programs such as "wet houses" where homeless people are allowed to store booze and drink, or in programs like in Portugal where heroin is given to addicts under strict supervision, etc, shows a huge decrease in overall taxpayer costs from reduced interventions by medical and security services. But ignorance, and knee-jerk assumptions, are bliss...

BTW, drug and alcohol use actually plummet as well...

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#4637584 - 01/17/18 10:35 AM Re: Philly- safe injection site for opiod users [Re: Mr Nice]
Smokescreen Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 3360
Loc: Alberta, Canada
The whole idea of a safe injection site is flawed. There is no rehabilitation, as has been mentioned it is enabling. The addicts now feel they can push the envelope of amounts taken because they are being monitored. They just do it again and again with no fear of death. I seems that serious addicts don't want to come off the high, but rather die in it.

People do drugs because they are fundamentally deficient in some area of their lives. Whether it's connection with others, with a supreme being or a general purpose in life, etc. If we really wanted to rehabilitate addicts we would look to treat the cause. Of course the addict would have to want to be rehabilitated to make a complete life change...and then, like an alcoholic stay away from drugs the remainder of their lives.

People should also be taught the serious side effects of drug use and addiction while they are young enough to understand. If people knew the real risks they would never start. People should be scared to do drugs, not intrigued by the notion. One can never know what is in the drugs they consume (unless they made it themselves), with fentanyl laced products everywhere the idea of being a recreational drug user are diminishing quickly.


Edited by Smokescreen (01/17/18 10:36 AM)
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#4637587 - 01/17/18 10:36 AM Re: Philly- safe injection site for opiod users [Re: Mr Nice]
spasm3 Online   content


Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 8662
Loc: North Carolina
I'm not a fan of enabling.
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#4637595 - 01/17/18 10:46 AM Re: Philly- safe injection site for opiod users [Re: Mr Nice]
PimTac Offline


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 4298
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
Your tax dollars at work. Instead of improving roads and infrastructure we concentrate on social issues. Here in the Seattle area, not only are there safe zones but free needles and syringes and places to dispose of them. Go into the airport bathroom and needle containers are mounted on the walls. There are even options to transport druggies to the exchanges, all on our dime.

Meanwhile it takes 1.5 hours to go 20 miles.

Itís all bass ackwards.


Edited by PimTac (01/17/18 10:46 AM)
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#4637597 - 01/17/18 10:50 AM Re: Philly- safe injection site for opiod users [Re: Mr Nice]
UberArchetype Offline


Registered: 07/13/17
Posts: 105
Loc: CO
As Nickdfresh alluded to, the safe injection site programs are clearly a big net benefit to society overall, and they've been used in many places for many years. So why does the problem seem to be getting worse?


Edited by UberArchetype (01/17/18 10:50 AM)

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#4637609 - 01/17/18 11:03 AM Re: Philly- safe injection site for opiod users [Re: UberArchetype]
DoubleWasp Offline


Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 5236
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Originally Posted By: UberArchetype
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
That's the rub right there. There isn't a solution.

That's quite the defeatist POV. Actually solving problems involves tracing them to their source, among other things. But nobody wants to admit the pharmaceutical industry is the biggest single factor poisoning our society right now - everything from peddling drugs to consumers on TV to insanely expensive cancer chemo drugs that don't work.

Opiates are just the currently obvious problem.


It's a realistic POV.

Big pharma is a big problem for sure, but even if major reductions are made, can we really eliminate pain killers entirely? People do need them for post surgery and injuries.

If we don't eliminate them entirely, then we're right back to square one.

Say we could snap a finger and make it go away. Then what? Back to the heroin, cocaine, etc. The former likely supporting ISIS.

Where foreign borne drugs are concerned, we've literally tried everything, including military action.

We solve this problem only by convincing third world residents that it's better to be a peasant picking through a garbage pile than living in a mansion with 12 Lamborghinis parked out front. And also convincing drug addicts here to stop buying drugs.

Those two are insurmountable issues. We don't even have ideas that sound good for solving them.


Edited by DoubleWasp (01/17/18 11:04 AM)
Edit Reason: Spelling
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#4637625 - 01/17/18 11:19 AM Re: Philly- safe injection site for opiod users [Re: DoubleWasp]
UberArchetype Offline


Registered: 07/13/17
Posts: 105
Loc: CO
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Big pharma is a big problem for sure, but even if major reductions are made, can we really eliminate pain killers entirely? People do need them for post surgery and injuries.

They why are they so easily obtained for off-label abuse?
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
If we don't eliminate them entirely, then we're right back to square one.

It's not a simple black/white no-alternative situation.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Say we could snap a finger and make it go away. Then what? Back to the heroin, cocaine, etc. The former likely supporting ISIS.

You are starting to scratch the surface.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Where foreign borne drugs are concerned, we've literally tried everything, including military action.

You can't stop economic competition with wars and the military. That was clearly obvious from the start. But alot of money sure was made proving the point, wasn't it?
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Those two are insurmountable issues. We don't even have ideas that sound good for solving them.

The only thing insurmountable is the political will to address the problem rationally, without regard to special interests. Drug abuse will continue to be a big problem as long as the pharmaceutical and alcohol industries remain in competition with the black market. And that is the way it will stay as long as things continue to remain just barely tenable and the profits flow in.

It's called the status-quo. Nothing new here.


Edited by UberArchetype (01/17/18 11:25 AM)

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