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Rotella T6 GTL base oil #4637027
01/16/18 06:57 PM
01/16/18 06:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 93
Tennessee, United States
ZraHamilton Offline OP
ZraHamilton  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 93
Tennessee, United States
I found these PDFs from Shell about the new Rotella T6. It uses their GTL base oil like other Shell/Pennzoil products. What are the expert chemist/tribologists' opinions on the new GTLs? How close are they in performance to PAOs and esters?

http://www.purseroil.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/Shell%20Rotella%20T6%205W-40.pdf

https://rotella.shell.com/my-miles-matte...sheet-final.pdf

Re: Rotella T6 GTL base oil [Re: ZraHamilton] #4637371
01/17/18 06:54 AM
01/17/18 06:54 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,507
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
dnewton3  Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,507
Indianapolis, IN
I guess you'd have to define what "close" means to you, so that we can have a conversation.

Each is a different class of base stock for a reason; so how close is "close" chemically? Perhaps read our current lead BITOG page for info on base stocks.

However, that does not speak to performance in the crankcase; that's a different matter. How well something protects against wear in real world use can only be understood with UOAs and teardown analysis. Generally, while PAOs, esters and GTLs are impressive, I've not seen any substantial evidence that they can distinguish themselves in daily normal applications for the common BITOGer. That's because most everyone here OCIs far sooner than any disparity is going to show up between different choices. Whereas a OTR trucker or fleet manager whom practices managed OCIs by wear and oil data, might see a difference.


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Rotella T6 GTL base oil [Re: dnewton3] #4637429
01/17/18 08:24 AM
01/17/18 08:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Generally, while PAOs, esters and GTLs are impressive, I've not seen any substantial evidence that they can distinguish themselves in daily normal applications for the common BITOGer.


But a lot of us aren't "Daily, normal, common BITOGers...."

Folks like me with turbocharged engines and that do a lot of towing would like to know what handles heat best on the piston ring packs and in the turbo bearings.

Yes, Good Ol' SuperTech and Harvest king is good enough for 98% of the people here...

But I have PERSONALLY had to replace the pistons on an engine (*that I owned*) that had all the pistons rings weld themselves in place (a heavy towing engine) and I need an oil that can prevent that.

So, let's focus on the extreme aspects of oil performance, shall we?


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Rotella T6 GTL base oil [Re: Linctex] #4638202
01/17/18 09:32 PM
01/17/18 09:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 980
MT
jongies3 Offline
jongies3  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 980
MT
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Generally, while PAOs, esters and GTLs are impressive, I've not seen any substantial evidence that they can distinguish themselves in daily normal applications for the common BITOGer.


But a lot of us aren't "Daily, normal, common BITOGers...."

Folks like me with turbocharged engines and that do a lot of towing would like to know what handles heat best on the piston ring packs and in the turbo bearings.

Yes, Good Ol' SuperTech and Harvest king is good enough for 98% of the people here...

But I have PERSONALLY had to replace the pistons on an engine (*that I owned*) that had all the pistons rings weld themselves in place (a heavy towing engine) and I need an oil that can prevent that.

So, let's focus on the extreme aspects of oil performance, shall we?

What oil were you running?


2004 Toyota Tacoma 3.4 V6: Mobil 1 AFE 0W-30, FRAM TG-3600 filter
1969 Mustang Mach 1 5.8 V8: PYB 10W-30 Napa Gold 1515 filter
1997 Ford F-250 HD 7.3 Powerstroke V8: T6 5W-40 FRAM PH-3786 filter
Re: Rotella T6 GTL base oil [Re: ZraHamilton] #4638215
01/17/18 09:47 PM
01/17/18 09:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 980
MT
jongies3 Offline
jongies3  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 980
MT
I like the lower pour point, think it was around -30 prior? GTL is just another reason to love this oil even more! Hopefully it delivers the same awesome results Pennzoil synthetics have for me in the past. I use T6 in pretty much everything else I own, from my 7.3 Powerstroke, Kubota tractor, ATV's, to the lawnmower and snowblower!


2004 Toyota Tacoma 3.4 V6: Mobil 1 AFE 0W-30, FRAM TG-3600 filter
1969 Mustang Mach 1 5.8 V8: PYB 10W-30 Napa Gold 1515 filter
1997 Ford F-250 HD 7.3 Powerstroke V8: T6 5W-40 FRAM PH-3786 filter
Re: Rotella T6 GTL base oil [Re: Linctex] #4638437
01/18/18 07:27 AM
01/18/18 07:27 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,507
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
dnewton3  Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,507
Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Generally, while PAOs, esters and GTLs are impressive, I've not seen any substantial evidence that they can distinguish themselves in daily normal applications for the common BITOGer.


But a lot of us aren't "Daily, normal, common BITOGers...."

Folks like me with turbocharged engines and that do a lot of towing would like to know what handles heat best on the piston ring packs and in the turbo bearings.

Yes, Good Ol' SuperTech and Harvest king is good enough for 98% of the people here...

But I have PERSONALLY had to replace the pistons on an engine (*that I owned*) that had all the pistons rings weld themselves in place (a heavy towing engine) and I need an oil that can prevent that.

So, let's focus on the extreme aspects of oil performance, shall we?



Performance? Sure. Let me tell you about how I define "performance" ... wear data. The job of a lube is to reduce wear. Sure, it does other things. It "cleans" and it "cools". But those are sub-entities to the concept of making the engine last as long as desired. There are only two reliable ways to track engine wear; UOAs and teardown analysis. Because TDs are absurdly expensive, time consuming, and induce measurement errors due to R&R concerns, we pretty much have UOAs are a practical, quick, affordable tool to view wear. So to that end, I look at wear data trends to determine what works and what does not.


Review this UOA string:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4527295/1/Rotella_10w-30_T4;___11.5k_mil
I can assure you that you don't "tow" any harder than what I did with my Dmax this past fall. EGTs sustained between 1100-1300 degF pre-turbo, for hours on end.

Now grab some data from other Dmax engines and show me that I'm not getting every bit as good wear trends as anyone running syns. I have over 550 UOAs of Dmax engines from all manner of use, all brands, all base-stocks, etc. I know what is "normal" statistically.


Your anecdotal story about welded rings is presumably true, but what evidence do you have that the oil used was at fault, or that some other lube would have succeeded? It's an interesting horror story, but there's nothing that can credibly tie it to a failure of one lube, or the guaranteed win of another choice. How do you know that even if you did use a GTL, the rings still would not have stuck? How do you know that under other conditions, other lubes would have not cause them to stick? You have a valid experience and a valid concern, but you have a poor idea of how to judge what will and will not stop some failure mode from happening.


"Folks like me ... would like to know what handles heat best ..."
The "best" controller of heat energy is a good lube system design. Controlling thermal energy transfer is a matter of not only the lube, but also encompasses the entire system from capacity, volume moved, part clearances, rejection heat sinks and exchangers, etc.


- The reason Dmax engines do very well with dino lubes is because the lube system is well designed; that engine series simply could not care less what's in the crankcase, as long as it's a properly spec'd lube. The lube system can transfer enough thermal energy that the entire engine wears well; turbo bearings, pistons, rings, etc. The "package" performs as a unit to manage the heat well, so just about ANY lube does well, even with "severe" use.
- The engine you tore down, and discovered welded ring packs, may be susceptible to harsh use, regardless of what is in the crankcase. Whereas we could possibly accept that a premium syn might delay onset of some untoward condition for a very short time, rings sticking to the pistons is a condition that, depending upon lube system design, may not be stopped by ANY lube, if the conditions are abusive enough. If the rings in your engine example truly welded to the aluminum pistons, then the heat energy present was FAR, FAR greater than any lube would tolerate without severe degradation. Even premium syns can only tolerate perhaps 500 degF for short cycles before they are horribly compromised with extreme oxidation, coking, etc. But the thermal energy it takes to "weld" steel rings into aluminum pistons would be perhaps 1700F or more? I say this because the SAFE sustained operating EGT for my Dmax (with steel rings and aluminum pistons) is 1350 degF, per GM. So if you welded rings in your engine, your localized piston temps were WAY above what ANY oil cold tolerate. No lube you'd reasonably find spec'd for your application will survive temps it takes to melt aluminum and fuse it with steel, or stop it from happening.


Admittedly, you've not told us what engine suffered this problem, but I'm fairly confident that you have an incorrect view of what a lube's job is. It cannot stop two metals from co-joining when the thermal energy required to make that localized metallurgical transaction is FAR GREATER than the safe operating temps of the lube. Something in your lube system failed, and it likely would have happened to ANY lube present.

Do you see my point?




Last edited by dnewton3; 01/19/18 07:07 AM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Rotella T6 GTL base oil [Re: Linctex] #4638739
01/18/18 01:16 PM
01/18/18 01:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,839
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,839
Kalifornia Kollective
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Generally, while PAOs, esters and GTLs are impressive, I've not seen any substantial evidence that they can distinguish themselves in daily normal applications for the common BITOGer.


But a lot of us aren't "Daily, normal, common BITOGers...."

Folks like me with turbocharged engines and that do a lot of towing would like to know what handles heat best on the piston ring packs and in the turbo bearings.

Yes, Good Ol' SuperTech and Harvest king is good enough for 98% of the people here...

How about a little CAT 3208 making 35 psi and 420 HP at 3,200 continuous in marine - that's 8 hours a day, 5 days a week spinning a Hamilton Jet. There is no truck load anywhere near that for heat. Trucks at least get to shift and coast now and then... 1W pistons and the biggest squirters CAT could supply, careful break-in, and it's still running today - 10 years after I last saw it smile

Needed two sets of steel shim head gaskets in 10 years. They'd start weeping and it was time. Next step was to O-ring seal the decks, but we lived with head gasket replacements ...

But I have PERSONALLY had to replace the pistons on an engine (*that I owned*) that had all the pistons rings weld themselves in place (a heavy towing engine) and I need an oil that can prevent that.

So, let's focus on the extreme aspects of oil performance, shall we?


How about a small cam Cummins tuned to 444 in a 3-axle Pete tow truck that would pyro 1,200*F in about 1 minute from 550 normal cruise. Yeah we used the "extra" power very sparingly because you could not cool the internals. It was there when needed for short bursts only.

You welded rings - it was insufficient piston cooling. You needed much higher oil flow and bigger squirters to cool the pistons. Somehow I doubt you had either ...

Good old everyday HDEO's have been keeping millions of big rigs going with boost on the peg over the Rocky Mtns for decades. Some of those engines were tuned pretty tight to make the average trip length shorter and keep the speed up on long pulls like 30 miles constant grade.

The oils don't fail, the builds do when the wrench makes a mistake or specs the wrong parts ...

Last edited by BrocLuno; 01/18/18 01:21 PM.

Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Rotella T6 GTL base oil [Re: Linctex] #4643093
01/22/18 04:20 PM
01/22/18 04:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,002
Michigan
A_Harman Offline
A_Harman  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,002
Michigan
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Generally, while PAOs, esters and GTLs are impressive, I've not seen any substantial evidence that they can distinguish themselves in daily normal applications for the common BITOGer.


But a lot of us aren't "Daily, normal, common BITOGers...."

Folks like me with turbocharged engines and that do a lot of towing would like to know what handles heat best on the piston ring packs and in the turbo bearings.

Yes, Good Ol' SuperTech and Harvest king is good enough for 98% of the people here...

But I have PERSONALLY had to replace the pistons on an engine (*that I owned*) that had all the pistons rings weld themselves in place (a heavy towing engine) and I need an oil that can prevent that.

So, let's focus on the extreme aspects of oil performance, shall we?


Was this a diesel or gasoline engine for heavy towing?
Piston ring microwelding is not something that happens in diesel engines that have NiResist piston ring groove inserts and properly designed crown cooling galleries.
Aftermarket "high performance" forged aluminum diesel pistons do not have them, and they should not be used as a service replacement for factory pistons.


1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck
Re: Rotella T6 GTL base oil [Re: dnewton3] #4648594
01/28/18 04:21 AM
01/28/18 04:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 232
California
jj51702 Offline
jj51702  Offline
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 232
California
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Generally, while PAOs, esters and GTLs are impressive, I've not seen any substantial evidence that they can distinguish themselves in daily normal applications for the common BITOGer.


But a lot of us aren't "Daily, normal, common BITOGers...."

Folks like me with turbocharged engines and that do a lot of towing would like to know what handles heat best on the piston ring packs and in the turbo bearings.

Yes, Good Ol' SuperTech and Harvest king is good enough for 98% of the people here...

But I have PERSONALLY had to replace the pistons on an engine (*that I owned*) that had all the pistons rings weld themselves in place (a heavy towing engine) and I need an oil that can prevent that.

So, let's focus on the extreme aspects of oil performance, shall we?



Performance? Sure. Let me tell you about how I define "performance" ... wear data. The job of a lube is to reduce wear. Sure, it does other things. It "cleans" and it "cools". But those are sub-entities to the concept of making the engine last as long as desired. There are only two reliable ways to track engine wear; UOAs and teardown analysis. Because TDs are absurdly expensive, time consuming, and induce measurement errors due to R&R concerns, we pretty much have UOAs are a practical, quick, affordable tool to view wear. So to that end, I look at wear data trends to determine what works and what does not.


Review this UOA string:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4527295/1/Rotella_10w-30_T4;___11.5k_mil
I can assure you that you don't "tow" any harder than what I did with my Dmax this past fall. EGTs sustained between 1100-1300 degF pre-turbo, for hours on end.

Now grab some data from other Dmax engines and show me that I'm not getting every bit as good wear trends as anyone running syns. I have over 550 UOAs of Dmax engines from all manner of use, all brands, all base-stocks, etc. I know what is "normal" statistically.


Your anecdotal story about welded rings is presumably true, but what evidence do you have that the oil used was at fault, or that some other lube would have succeeded? It's an interesting horror story, but there's nothing that can credibly tie it to a failure of one lube, or the guaranteed win of another choice. How do you know that even if you did use a GTL, the rings still would not have stuck? How do you know that under other conditions, other lubes would have not cause them to stick? You have a valid experience and a valid concern, but you have a poor idea of how to judge what will and will not stop some failure mode from happening.


"Folks like me ... would like to know what handles heat best ..."
The "best" controller of heat energy is a good lube system design. Controlling thermal energy transfer is a matter of not only the lube, but also encompasses the entire system from capacity, volume moved, part clearances, rejection heat sinks and exchangers, etc.


- The reason Dmax engines do very well with dino lubes is because the lube system is well designed; that engine series simply could not care less what's in the crankcase, as long as it's a properly spec'd lube. The lube system can transfer enough thermal energy that the entire engine wears well; turbo bearings, pistons, rings, etc. The "package" performs as a unit to manage the heat well, so just about ANY lube does well, even with "severe" use.
- The engine you tore down, and discovered welded ring packs, may be susceptible to harsh use, regardless of what is in the crankcase. Whereas we could possibly accept that a premium syn might delay onset of some untoward condition for a very short time, rings sticking to the pistons is a condition that, depending upon lube system design, may not be stopped by ANY lube, if the conditions are abusive enough. If the rings in your engine example truly welded to the aluminum pistons, then the heat energy present was FAR, FAR greater than any lube would tolerate without severe degradation. Even premium syns can only tolerate perhaps 500 degF for short cycles before they are horribly compromised with extreme oxidation, coking, etc. But the thermal energy it takes to "weld" steel rings into aluminum pistons would be perhaps 1700F or more? I say this because the SAFE sustained operating EGT for my Dmax (with steel rings and aluminum pistons) is 1350 degF, per GM. So if you welded rings in your engine, your localized piston temps were WAY above what ANY oil cold tolerate. No lube you'd reasonably find spec'd for your application will survive temps it takes to melt aluminum and fuse it with steel, or stop it from happening.


Admittedly, you've not told us what engine suffered this problem, but I'm fairly confident that you have an incorrect view of what a lube's job is. It cannot stop two metals from co-joining when the thermal energy required to make that localized metallurgical transaction is FAR GREATER than the safe operating temps of the lube. Something in your lube system failed, and it likely would have happened to ANY lube present.

Do you see my point?





R u an engineer by chance? Possibly a quality engineer or an engineer working in aerospace?

Re: Rotella T6 GTL base oil [Re: jj51702] #4649702
01/29/18 02:38 AM
01/29/18 02:38 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,256
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,256
Malaysia
Originally Posted By: jj51702
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Generally, while PAOs, esters and GTLs are impressive, I've not seen any substantial evidence that they can distinguish themselves in daily normal applications for the common BITOGer.


But a lot of us aren't "Daily, normal, common BITOGers...."

Folks like me with turbocharged engines and that do a lot of towing would like to know what handles heat best on the piston ring packs and in the turbo bearings.

Yes, Good Ol' SuperTech and Harvest king is good enough for 98% of the people here...

But I have PERSONALLY had to replace the pistons on an engine (*that I owned*) that had all the pistons rings weld themselves in place (a heavy towing engine) and I need an oil that can prevent that.

So, let's focus on the extreme aspects of oil performance, shall we?



Performance? Sure. Let me tell you about how I define "performance" ... wear data. The job of a lube is to reduce wear. Sure, it does other things. It "cleans" and it "cools". But those are sub-entities to the concept of making the engine last as long as desired. There are only two reliable ways to track engine wear; UOAs and teardown analysis. Because TDs are absurdly expensive, time consuming, and induce measurement errors due to R&R concerns, we pretty much have UOAs are a practical, quick, affordable tool to view wear. So to that end, I look at wear data trends to determine what works and what does not.


Review this UOA string:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4527295/1/Rotella_10w-30_T4;___11.5k_mil
I can assure you that you don't "tow" any harder than what I did with my Dmax this past fall. EGTs sustained between 1100-1300 degF pre-turbo, for hours on end.

Now grab some data from other Dmax engines and show me that I'm not getting every bit as good wear trends as anyone running syns. I have over 550 UOAs of Dmax engines from all manner of use, all brands, all base-stocks, etc. I know what is "normal" statistically.


Your anecdotal story about welded rings is presumably true, but what evidence do you have that the oil used was at fault, or that some other lube would have succeeded? It's an interesting horror story, but there's nothing that can credibly tie it to a failure of one lube, or the guaranteed win of another choice. How do you know that even if you did use a GTL, the rings still would not have stuck? How do you know that under other conditions, other lubes would have not cause them to stick? You have a valid experience and a valid concern, but you have a poor idea of how to judge what will and will not stop some failure mode from happening.


"Folks like me ... would like to know what handles heat best ..."
The "best" controller of heat energy is a good lube system design. Controlling thermal energy transfer is a matter of not only the lube, but also encompasses the entire system from capacity, volume moved, part clearances, rejection heat sinks and exchangers, etc.


- The reason Dmax engines do very well with dino lubes is because the lube system is well designed; that engine series simply could not care less what's in the crankcase, as long as it's a properly spec'd lube. The lube system can transfer enough thermal energy that the entire engine wears well; turbo bearings, pistons, rings, etc. The "package" performs as a unit to manage the heat well, so just about ANY lube does well, even with "severe" use.
- The engine you tore down, and discovered welded ring packs, may be susceptible to harsh use, regardless of what is in the crankcase. Whereas we could possibly accept that a premium syn might delay onset of some untoward condition for a very short time, rings sticking to the pistons is a condition that, depending upon lube system design, may not be stopped by ANY lube, if the conditions are abusive enough. If the rings in your engine example truly welded to the aluminum pistons, then the heat energy present was FAR, FAR greater than any lube would tolerate without severe degradation. Even premium syns can only tolerate perhaps 500 degF for short cycles before they are horribly compromised with extreme oxidation, coking, etc. But the thermal energy it takes to "weld" steel rings into aluminum pistons would be perhaps 1700F or more? I say this because the SAFE sustained operating EGT for my Dmax (with steel rings and aluminum pistons) is 1350 degF, per GM. So if you welded rings in your engine, your localized piston temps were WAY above what ANY oil cold tolerate. No lube you'd reasonably find spec'd for your application will survive temps it takes to melt aluminum and fuse it with steel, or stop it from happening.


Admittedly, you've not told us what engine suffered this problem, but I'm fairly confident that you have an incorrect view of what a lube's job is. It cannot stop two metals from co-joining when the thermal energy required to make that localized metallurgical transaction is FAR GREATER than the safe operating temps of the lube. Something in your lube system failed, and it likely would have happened to ANY lube present.

Do you see my point?





R u an engineer by chance? Possibly a quality engineer or an engineer working in aerospace?

One doesn't need to be an engineer (be it specialist quality engineer or aerospace engineer) to appreciate what Dnewton says, just as one doesn't need to be a practising oil formulator/oil-chemist to appreciate performance efficacy of an add pack.
One's subject matter matters, not one's background IMHO.

Last edited by zeng; 01/29/18 02:39 AM.
Re: Rotella T6 GTL base oil [Re: BrocLuno] #4650443
01/29/18 06:42 PM
01/29/18 06:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,816
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,816
Idaho
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Generally, while PAOs, esters and GTLs are impressive, I've not seen any substantial evidence that they can distinguish themselves in daily normal applications for the common BITOGer.


But a lot of us aren't "Daily, normal, common BITOGers...."

Folks like me with turbocharged engines and that do a lot of towing would like to know what handles heat best on the piston ring packs and in the turbo bearings.

Yes, Good Ol' SuperTech and Harvest king is good enough for 98% of the people here...

How about a little CAT 3208 making 35 psi and 420 HP at 3,200 continuous in marine - that's 8 hours a day, 5 days a week spinning a Hamilton Jet. There is no truck load anywhere near that for heat. Trucks at least get to shift and coast now and then... 1W pistons and the biggest squirters CAT could supply, careful break-in, and it's still running today - 10 years after I last saw it smile

Needed two sets of steel shim head gaskets in 10 years. They'd start weeping and it was time. Next step was to O-ring seal the decks, but we lived with head gasket replacements ...

But I have PERSONALLY had to replace the pistons on an engine (*that I owned*) that had all the pistons rings weld themselves in place (a heavy towing engine) and I need an oil that can prevent that.

So, let's focus on the extreme aspects of oil performance, shall we?


How about a small cam Cummins tuned to 444 in a 3-axle Pete tow truck that would pyro 1,200*F in about 1 minute from 550 normal cruise. Yeah we used the "extra" power very sparingly because you could not cool the internals. It was there when needed for short bursts only.

You welded rings - it was insufficient piston cooling. You needed much higher oil flow and bigger squirters to cool the pistons. Somehow I doubt you had either ...

Good old everyday HDEO's have been keeping millions of big rigs going with boost on the peg over the Rocky Mtns for decades. Some of those engines were tuned pretty tight to make the average trip length shorter and keep the speed up on long pulls like 30 miles constant grade.

The oils don't fail, the builds do when the wrench makes a mistake or specs the wrong parts ...
Is what you are saying is not to let our preconceived notions get in the way of facts?


"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."
Geoff Metcalf
Re: Rotella T6 GTL base oil [Re: ZraHamilton] #4651502
01/30/18 08:25 PM
01/30/18 08:25 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 452
Connecticut
Sam_Julier Offline
Sam_Julier  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 452
Connecticut
Meeting the specification is all that matters. The obsession with base oil on this site is nuts.

Sam


2005 Highlander 3.3L PC Duron 0W30, 47k
1993 Volvo 245 Delo 10W30, 140k
1993 Volvo 244 Delo 10W30, 152k

Re: Rotella T6 GTL base oil [Re: ZraHamilton] #4651580
01/30/18 09:58 PM
01/30/18 09:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,839
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,839
Kalifornia Kollective
But we like color and hue, and that is often base oil dependent laugh


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Rotella T6 GTL base oil [Re: Sam_Julier] #4651781
01/31/18 09:02 AM
01/31/18 09:02 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,507
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
dnewton3  Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,507
Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: Sam_Julier
Meeting the specification is all that matters. The obsession with base oil on this site is nuts.

Sam


You, sir, clearly do not understand the monumental commitment to overly-zealous base stock and lube brand bigotry that is a pre-requisite for being a member here. Don't you realize that all manner of logic and pragmatic efforts, bound by credible facts and real-world data, are to be eschewed for the superiority of bench racing all topics with reckless abandon?

Your BITOG membership is hereby in jeopardy, and you are scolded, to be beaten with the golden Rod of Viscosity, and lashed with the Whip of Flashpoint for your heresy.
Your punishment is to sit in the corner, say 10 Hail Moly's and 5 Our Filters, and your sins against BITOG will be forgiven.
grin



I, too, now must be adjudicated into the abyss, for I have presumed you to be male (referring to you as "Sir"), because "Sam" could be short for "Samantha". But in today's world, it is possible that a male could be (or had been) "The artist formerly known as Sam" (or Samuel, or Samson, or Samaniqua, or whatever ...). Therefore, though no intent to disparage you or anyone else known outwardly as "Sam" was present on my part, I am guilty of crossing the PC boundary, stepping into the dreaded realm of gender presumption, and thereby offended not only you, but the entire developed world which speaketh the King's English.
I will now have to ban myself.
grin2


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Rotella T6 GTL base oil [Re: Sam_Julier] #4652432
01/31/18 07:19 PM
01/31/18 07:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,355
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,355
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Sam_Julier
Meeting the specification is all that matters. The obsession with base oil on this site is nuts.

Much of that is true, but with HDEOs, particularly, be careful what you wish for. Given that there are 15w-40 conventional options that meet the same ACEA and builder approvals as 5w-40 synthetics, should the 15w-40 Group II go up to the price of the 5w-40 synthetic? It meets the specs, after all. wink


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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