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#4634021 - 01/13/18 08:52 PM UOA trending while using different oil filters
wemay Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8895
Loc: Southeast Florida
Would it not be beneficial to use the same brand of oil filter during every sample interval in order to gain more accurate readings vs using filters with different efficiency ratings?
_________________________
2017 Hyundai Sonata Sport 2.4L
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T
Valvoline

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#4634026 - 01/13/18 09:08 PM Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: wemay]
das_peikko Offline


Registered: 01/01/18
Posts: 519
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Yes -- make up your mind on what your favorite filter is and stick with it.

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#4634048 - 01/13/18 09:27 PM Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: wemay]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Well, really....

There are:
1) Premium Filters (Fram XG, Amsoil, Royal Purple, Mobil M1)
2) Everything else

There won't be ANY huge changes between any oil filters on a UOA.

The one thing that might change is "insolubles", but even then there's plenty of room for error.

If you think oil filter choice is going to affect PPM of Fe or Al, I seriously doubt it.
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4634050 - 01/13/18 09:30 PM Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: wemay]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
The reason I say what I just said is when a UOA shows "8 ppm Fe" (iron), these are particles that go right through pretty much any filter. Even UOA's with "bypass filtration" show these metals.

Blackstone labs has said the big stuff that gets caught in a filter (and stays there, in any filter) doesn't even get analyzed in a UOA.
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4634079 - 01/13/18 10:09 PM Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: wemay]
FlyNavyP3 Offline


Registered: 07/04/16
Posts: 1407
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
I've run a wide range of filters on my Lexus from a rock catcher to a Motocraft to an Ultra, I've never been able to see any differences in my UOA wear metals, the best one for insolubles was actually the FL910S and not the Ultra. Iron and aluminum have always been 1-3 ppm each on average regardless of filter.
_________________________
Luke
P-3C and P-8A Maritime Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Instructor Tactical Coordinator and Mission Commander

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#4634116 - 01/13/18 11:23 PM Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: wemay]
Insertcoolname Offline


Registered: 08/28/17
Posts: 158
Loc: South Texas
Wrong pAge...going to bed cant delete sorry lol


Edited by Insertcoolname (01/13/18 11:24 PM)

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#4634152 - 01/14/18 12:35 AM Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: FlyNavyP3]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
I've run a wide range of filters on my Lexus from a rock catcher to a Motorcraft to an Ultra, I've never been able to see any differences in my UOA wear metals


Luke,
The variety at which you experiment (oils and filters) is not just entertaining,
but blows huge holes in all kinds of old fables and folklore!

There was one very long Amsoil study (often linked here) in a modern Camaro for about 20,000 miles (UOA every 1000 or so miles) and insolubles did go down a tiny bit when a filter change was done.
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4634202 - 01/14/18 03:43 AM Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: Linctex]
shanneba Offline


Registered: 07/10/04
Posts: 888
Loc: Indiana (IN)
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
I've run a wide range of filters on my Lexus from a rock catcher to a Motorcraft to an Ultra, I've never been able to see any differences in my UOA wear metals


Luke,
The variety at which you experiment (oils and filters) is not just entertaining,
but blows huge holes in all kinds of old fables and folklore!

There was one very long Amsoil study (often linked here) in a modern Camaro for about 20,000 miles (UOA every 1000 or so miles) and insolubles did go down a tiny bit when a filter change was done.


Isn't that both Amsoil and Mobil 1 oil article?

Amsoil- https://www.brianschreurs.org/neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/amsoil.html

Mobil 1 - https://www.brianschreurs.org/neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html


Edited by shanneba (01/14/18 03:46 AM)
_________________________
2003 BMW 330Ci
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#4634248 - 01/14/18 07:03 AM Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: FlyNavyP3]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 13661
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
I've run a wide range of filters on my Lexus from a rock catcher to a Motocraft to an Ultra, I've never been able to see any differences in my UOA wear metals, the best one for insolubles was actually the FL910S and not the Ultra. Iron and aluminum have always been 1-3 ppm each on average regardless of filter.


Also you won't see any difference in the life of the engine. The oil you use is far more important than the filter you use.
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 227,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 49K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and MC LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters


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#4634323 - 01/14/18 08:45 AM Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: shanneba]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: shanneba
Originally Posted By: Linctex
There was one very long Amsoil study (often linked here) in a modern Camaro for about 20,000 miles (UOA every 1000 or so miles) and insolubles did go down a tiny bit when a filter change was done.


Isn't that both Amsoil and Mobil 1 oil article?
Amsoil- https://www.brianschreurs.org/neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/amsoil.html
Mobil 1 - https://www.brianschreurs.org/neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html


YES! Thank you for finding & posting the links!
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4634406 - 01/14/18 09:42 AM Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: wemay]
DuckRyder Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 4214
Loc: Atlanta
We just finished debating something very similar on the Microgreen thread (at least I assume it is finished as it is going to get)

I still don’t believe that a UOA is going to tell you much about a filter (or conversely that a filter is going to have an impact on UOA’s).

If your insolubles are out of whack (which seems uncommon from my recollections) then the filter might be something to take a look at.
_________________________
Robert
  • 2007 Toyota Prius Touring
  • 2005 Honda Civic Sedan
  • 1972 Ford F100

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#4634605 - 01/14/18 11:57 AM Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: Linctex]
FlyNavyP3 Offline


Registered: 07/04/16
Posts: 1407
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
I've run a wide range of filters on my Lexus from a rock catcher to a Motorcraft to an Ultra, I've never been able to see any differences in my UOA wear metals


Luke,
The variety at which you experiment (oils and filters) is not just entertaining,
but blows huge holes in all kinds of old fables and folklore!

There was one very long Amsoil study (often linked here) in a modern Camaro for about 20,000 miles (UOA every 1000 or so miles) and insolubles did go down a tiny bit when a filter change was done.


Any of my ramblings are far from definitive or scientific in their scope. But at a macro level seem to point to the fact that SN oils are all generally pretty good at modest intervals. It also points to the apparent truth in Dnewtons Signature line which I'm paraphrasing to say "Conventional vs Synthetic isn't about which one is better" Synthetic oils can have their place where a low noack is required or high temperature oxidation stability is required or for long drain intervals. Conventional oils can be equally effective at reasonable drain intervals. Drain interval is a very uses specific metric determined not only by the individual engine but the conditions under which its operating to include quality and type of fuel as well as the usage of the vehicle. I don't propose that the PYB would be a good candidate for 15k OCI in my application but it wasn't woefully overdue for a change at 5,000 miles either. I just enjoy gathering data and experimenting, the yearly clearance deals and Amazon sales allow me a wide variety of oils to run and collect macro data on. I only wish that I had a fleet of about 30 of my Lexus so that I could run 30 of these oils in individual cars for 200,000 miles on the same oils and filters to collect data. Unfortunately I have one car and a lot of different oils so we just get singular data points on those oils.
_________________________
Luke
P-3C and P-8A Maritime Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Instructor Tactical Coordinator and Mission Commander

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