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UOA trending while using different oil filters #4634021
01/13/18 08:52 PM
01/13/18 08:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,858
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,858
Kendall, FL
Would it not be beneficial to use the same brand of oil filter during every sample interval in order to gain more accurate readings vs using filters with different efficiency ratings?


18 Sportage 2.4L AWD: PP 10W30 + WIX 51334XP + e air WIX 10335
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: M1EP 10W30 + OEM + e air WIX 49670

Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: wemay] #4634026
01/13/18 09:08 PM
01/13/18 09:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 538
San Antonio, TX
das_peikko Offline
das_peikko  Offline
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 538
San Antonio, TX
Yes -- make up your mind on what your favorite filter is and stick with it.

Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: wemay] #4634048
01/13/18 09:27 PM
01/13/18 09:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,199
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,199
Waco, TX
Well, really....

There are:
1) Premium Filters (Fram XG, Amsoil, Royal Purple, Mobil M1)
2) Everything else

There won't be ANY huge changes between any oil filters on a UOA.

The one thing that might change is "insolubles", but even then there's plenty of room for error.

If you think oil filter choice is going to affect PPM of Fe or Al, I seriously doubt it.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: wemay] #4634050
01/13/18 09:30 PM
01/13/18 09:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,199
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,199
Waco, TX
The reason I say what I just said is when a UOA shows "8 ppm Fe" (iron), these are particles that go right through pretty much any filter. Even UOA's with "bypass filtration" show these metals.

Blackstone labs has said the big stuff that gets caught in a filter (and stays there, in any filter) doesn't even get analyzed in a UOA.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: wemay] #4634079
01/13/18 10:09 PM
01/13/18 10:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,703
Jacksonville, FL
FlyNavyP3 Offline
FlyNavyP3  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,703
Jacksonville, FL
I've run a wide range of filters on my Lexus from a rock catcher to a Motocraft to an Ultra, I've never been able to see any differences in my UOA wear metals, the best one for insolubles was actually the FL910S and not the Ultra. Iron and aluminum have always been 1-3 ppm each on average regardless of filter.


Luke
P-3C and P-8A Maritime Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Instructor Tactical Coordinator and Mission Commander
Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: wemay] #4634116
01/13/18 11:23 PM
01/13/18 11:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 173
South Texas
Insertcoolname Offline
Insertcoolname  Offline
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 173
South Texas
Wrong pAge...going to bed cant delete sorry lol

Last edited by Insertcoolname; 01/13/18 11:24 PM.
Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: FlyNavyP3] #4634152
01/14/18 12:35 AM
01/14/18 12:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,199
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,199
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
I've run a wide range of filters on my Lexus from a rock catcher to a Motorcraft to an Ultra, I've never been able to see any differences in my UOA wear metals


Luke,
The variety at which you experiment (oils and filters) is not just entertaining,
but blows huge holes in all kinds of old fables and folklore!

There was one very long Amsoil study (often linked here) in a modern Camaro for about 20,000 miles (UOA every 1000 or so miles) and insolubles did go down a tiny bit when a filter change was done.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: Linctex] #4634202
01/14/18 03:43 AM
01/14/18 03:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 940
Indiana (IN)
shanneba Online content
shanneba  Online Content
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 940
Indiana (IN)
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
I've run a wide range of filters on my Lexus from a rock catcher to a Motorcraft to an Ultra, I've never been able to see any differences in my UOA wear metals


Luke,
The variety at which you experiment (oils and filters) is not just entertaining,
but blows huge holes in all kinds of old fables and folklore!

There was one very long Amsoil study (often linked here) in a modern Camaro for about 20,000 miles (UOA every 1000 or so miles) and insolubles did go down a tiny bit when a filter change was done.


Isn't that both Amsoil and Mobil 1 oil article?

Amsoil- https://www.brianschreurs.org/neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/amsoil.html

Mobil 1 - https://www.brianschreurs.org/neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

Last edited by shanneba; 01/14/18 03:46 AM.

2003 BMW 330Ci
2013 HD Sportster XL1200C
Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: FlyNavyP3] #4634248
01/14/18 07:03 AM
01/14/18 07:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,991
Illinois
tig1 Offline
tig1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,991
Illinois
Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
I've run a wide range of filters on my Lexus from a rock catcher to a Motocraft to an Ultra, I've never been able to see any differences in my UOA wear metals, the best one for insolubles was actually the FL910S and not the Ultra. Iron and aluminum have always been 1-3 ppm each on average regardless of filter.


Also you won't see any difference in the life of the engine. The oil you use is far more important than the filter you use.


2007 Ford Fusion 235,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 61K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: shanneba] #4634323
01/14/18 08:45 AM
01/14/18 08:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,199
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,199
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: shanneba
Originally Posted By: Linctex
There was one very long Amsoil study (often linked here) in a modern Camaro for about 20,000 miles (UOA every 1000 or so miles) and insolubles did go down a tiny bit when a filter change was done.


Isn't that both Amsoil and Mobil 1 oil article?
Amsoil- https://www.brianschreurs.org/neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/amsoil.html
Mobil 1 - https://www.brianschreurs.org/neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html


YES! Thank you for finding & posting the links!


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: wemay] #4634406
01/14/18 09:42 AM
01/14/18 09:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,633
Atlanta
DuckRyder Offline
DuckRyder  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,633
Atlanta
We just finished debating something very similar on the Microgreen thread (at least I assume it is finished as it is going to get)

I still don’t believe that a UOA is going to tell you much about a filter (or conversely that a filter is going to have an impact on UOA’s).

If your insolubles are out of whack (which seems uncommon from my recollections) then the filter might be something to take a look at.


Robert
  • 2007 Toyota Prius Touring
  • 2005 Honda Civic Sedan
  • 1972 Ford F100
Re: UOA trending while using different oil filters [Re: Linctex] #4634605
01/14/18 11:57 AM
01/14/18 11:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,703
Jacksonville, FL
FlyNavyP3 Offline
FlyNavyP3  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,703
Jacksonville, FL
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
I've run a wide range of filters on my Lexus from a rock catcher to a Motorcraft to an Ultra, I've never been able to see any differences in my UOA wear metals


Luke,
The variety at which you experiment (oils and filters) is not just entertaining,
but blows huge holes in all kinds of old fables and folklore!

There was one very long Amsoil study (often linked here) in a modern Camaro for about 20,000 miles (UOA every 1000 or so miles) and insolubles did go down a tiny bit when a filter change was done.


Any of my ramblings are far from definitive or scientific in their scope. But at a macro level seem to point to the fact that SN oils are all generally pretty good at modest intervals. It also points to the apparent truth in Dnewtons Signature line which I'm paraphrasing to say "Conventional vs Synthetic isn't about which one is better" Synthetic oils can have their place where a low noack is required or high temperature oxidation stability is required or for long drain intervals. Conventional oils can be equally effective at reasonable drain intervals. Drain interval is a very uses specific metric determined not only by the individual engine but the conditions under which its operating to include quality and type of fuel as well as the usage of the vehicle. I don't propose that the PYB would be a good candidate for 15k OCI in my application but it wasn't woefully overdue for a change at 5,000 miles either. I just enjoy gathering data and experimenting, the yearly clearance deals and Amazon sales allow me a wide variety of oils to run and collect macro data on. I only wish that I had a fleet of about 30 of my Lexus so that I could run 30 of these oils in individual cars for 200,000 miles on the same oils and filters to collect data. Unfortunately I have one car and a lot of different oils so we just get singular data points on those oils.


Luke
P-3C and P-8A Maritime Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Instructor Tactical Coordinator and Mission Commander

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