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#4631255 - 01/11/18 10:03 AM How/Why The Pleats Tear
BlueOvalFitter Offline


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 6003
Loc: Cajun Country, La.
At the 1:40 mark listen/watch how the filter pleats tear, according to MANN oil filters.

https://youtu.be/AajTItBn148

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#4631261 - 01/11/18 10:08 AM Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: BlueOvalFitter]
Charlie2015 Offline


Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 260
Loc: Georgia
"pressure differential"
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1998 Honda Accord EX 2.3L Auto
2009 Scion TC Manual

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#4631281 - 01/11/18 10:24 AM Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: Charlie2015]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6186
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Charlie2015
"pressure differential"


And "surface area"

The wider pleats have a greater horizontal component of surface area....
The narrower pleats have a greater vertical component of surface area (column strength!)

It's easy to punch your fist through a piece of 1/4" drywall... on the surface (but not on edge)
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(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4631328 - 01/11/18 11:02 AM Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: BlueOvalFitter]
LeakySeals Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 6624
Loc: Hudson, NH
In a pressure situation whats gonna tear, a metal end cap or the paper media glued to it? The paper. Near the metal end cap where the greatest stress occurs.

In a pressure situation whats gonna tear, a paper end cap or the paper media glued to it? Neither. Both papers will flex and bend sharing the stress.
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06 Escalade 6.0L AWD 160k. M1 5w30 Fram TG
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#4631349 - 01/11/18 11:20 AM Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: BlueOvalFitter]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 7730
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Scary-they know there's a problem, and won't do anything about it! The whole issue could be fixed with even slightly less brittle/fragile media.
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#4631386 - 01/11/18 11:47 AM Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: BlueOvalFitter]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 11230
Loc: Idaho
Pleats tear because of minimal quality standards.
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#4631415 - 01/11/18 12:07 PM Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: Linctex]
Virtus_Probi Online   content


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 4063
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: Charlie2015
"pressure differential"


And "surface area"

The wider pleats have a greater horizontal component of surface area....
The narrower pleats have a greater vertical component of surface area (column strength!)

It's easy to punch your fist through a piece of 1/4" drywall... on the surface (but not on edge)


I once pushed a coworker through the drywall in our office while we were horsing around...luckily we had a couple of guys who were good at fixing drywall, I took care of the painting as I had a lot of experience with that. Only bad thing it was a very long wall and I painted the whole thing rather than mess around with trying to blend it...lost most of a Saturday to pay for acting like little boys!
_________________________
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Last Change;
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#4631486 - 01/11/18 01:12 PM Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: BlueOvalFitter]
WellOiled Offline


Registered: 10/03/15
Posts: 1358
Loc: Houston, Texas
1. The wide pleat spacing near the seam creates a point(s) of maximum stress.
2. Weak brittle media.
3. Use conditions
a) DP across the filter element increases as the filter loads up with dirt.
b) Cold oil has a high viscosity. The viscosity increases with decreasing temperature. DP across the filter element will be higher with cold oil than hot oil.
c) User revs the engine during cold starts. DP across the filter element will be higher at high RPMs.
d) Lack of maintenance: if the bypass valve is slow opening due to varnish or other deposits, then additional stresses can be applied to the media.
e) Choice of oil weight: Using an oil weight greater than what is specified for the engine.

Combine all these factors and it is not difficult to see why the pleats can and sometimes do tear.
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2004 Ford Ranger 4.0L V6
NAPA Full Synthetic 5W30 + Fram Tough Guard

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#4631552 - 01/11/18 02:19 PM Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: WellOiled]
BlueOvalFitter Offline


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 6003
Loc: Cajun Country, La.
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
1. The wide pleat spacing near the seam creates a point(s) of maximum stress.
2. Weak brittle media.
3. Use conditions
a) DP across the filter element increases as the filter loads up with dirt.
b) Cold oil has a high viscosity. The viscosity increases with decreasing temperature. DP across the filter element will be higher with cold oil than hot oil.
c) User revs the engine during cold starts. DP across the filter element will be higher at high RPMs.
d) Lack of maintenance: if the bypass valve is slow opening due to varnish or other deposits, then additional stresses can be applied to the media.
e) Choice of oil weight: Using an oil weight greater than what is specified for the engine.

Combine all these factors and it is not difficult to see why the pleats can and sometimes do tear.

What if an engine was built from 1997-2008, and in 1997 said engine was spec'd 5W30? Then, in 2000, said engine is now spec'd to use 5W20, BUT, the tolerances and clearances NEVER changed in said engine all of those years it was built. The owner wants to use 5W30 in said 2007 engine. Will the oil weight that is greater than what is spec'd cause the pleats to tear?
The same name brand (MC FL-400S) oil filter that was used in 1997 is still being used in 2008, and said engine uses/used that filter all the years it was built.

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#4631566 - 01/11/18 02:31 PM Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: BlueOvalFitter]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17911
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
What if an engine was built from 1997-2008, and in 1997 said engine was spec'd 5W30? Then, in 2000, said engine is now spec'd to use 5W20, BUT, the tolerances and clearances NEVER changed in said engine all of those years it was built. The owner wants to use 5W30 in said 2007 engine. Will the oil weight that is greater than what is spec'd cause the pleats to tear?

Only if the filter is a piece of junk. laugh

Going from 5W-20 to 5W-30 shouldn't matter. The difference in viscosity at full engine temp is negligible in terms of delta-p across the filter.

If you went from 5W-20 to 20W-50 and did some high cold start engine revs, then yes a weak filter might tear. A well build filter will stil survive.

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#4631590 - 01/11/18 03:03 PM Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: BlueOvalFitter]
CharlieBauer Offline


Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 1181
Loc: CA
Have there been more tears in cold climates vs warmer climates?
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#4631594 - 01/11/18 03:08 PM Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: CharlieBauer]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17911
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Have there been more tears in cold climates vs warmer climates?

Cold weather use is going to push weak filters closer to the failure point.

Any well designed and strong filter should never fail in any operating conditions thrown at it.

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#4631602 - 01/11/18 03:23 PM Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: BlueOvalFitter]
WellOiled Offline


Registered: 10/03/15
Posts: 1358
Loc: Houston, Texas
BOF - ZeeOSix is spot on.
_________________________
2004 Ford Ranger 4.0L V6
NAPA Full Synthetic 5W30 + Fram Tough Guard

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#4631615 - 01/11/18 03:45 PM Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: WellOiled]
BlueOvalFitter Offline


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 6003
Loc: Cajun Country, La.
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
BOF - ZeeOSix is spot on.

Yes he is.
And, I want all of those out there to read my response about the engine made from 97-08. When you start babbling about how an engine spec'd 5W20 CAN'T use 5W30, get ALL of the facts about the engine first! Then, you won't look so foolish when you're corrected!
Thank You Z06. thumbsup USA

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#4631666 - 01/11/18 05:03 PM Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: BlueOvalFitter]
WellOiled Offline


Registered: 10/03/15
Posts: 1358
Loc: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
BOF - ZeeOSix is spot on.

Yes he is.
And, I want all of those out there to read my response about the engine made from 97-08. When you start babbling about how an engine spec'd 5W20 CAN'T use 5W30, get ALL of the facts about the engine first! Then, you won't look so foolish when you're corrected!
Thank You Z06. thumbsup USA

There is not much difference between 5W20 and 5W30 at temperatures less than freezing which is where this counts.
_________________________
2004 Ford Ranger 4.0L V6
NAPA Full Synthetic 5W30 + Fram Tough Guard

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