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How/Why The Pleats Tear #4631255
01/11/18 11:03 AM
01/11/18 11:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
BlueOvalFitter Offline OP
BlueOvalFitter  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
At the 1:40 mark listen/watch how the filter pleats tear, according to MANN oil filters.

https://youtu.be/AajTItBn148

Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4631261
01/11/18 11:08 AM
01/11/18 11:08 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 279
Georgia
Charlie2015 Offline
Charlie2015  Offline
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 279
Georgia
"pressure differential"


1998 Honda Accord EX 2.3L Auto
2009 Scion TC Manual
Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: Charlie2015] #4631281
01/11/18 11:24 AM
01/11/18 11:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,259
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,259
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Charlie2015
"pressure differential"


And "surface area"

The wider pleats have a greater horizontal component of surface area....
The narrower pleats have a greater vertical component of surface area (column strength!)

It's easy to punch your fist through a piece of 1/4" drywall... on the surface (but not on edge)


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4631328
01/11/18 12:02 PM
01/11/18 12:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,719
Hudson, NH
LeakySeals Offline
LeakySeals  Offline
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,719
Hudson, NH
In a pressure situation whats gonna tear, a metal end cap or the paper media glued to it? The paper. Near the metal end cap where the greatest stress occurs.

In a pressure situation whats gonna tear, a paper end cap or the paper media glued to it? Neither. Both papers will flex and bend sharing the stress.


06 Escalade 6.0L LQ9 AWD 165k M1 5w30
03 Maxima 3.5L POS 152k ST HM 10w30
Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4631349
01/11/18 12:20 PM
01/11/18 12:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,984
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,984
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Scary-they know there's a problem, and won't do anything about it! The whole issue could be fixed with even slightly less brittle/fragile media.


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4631386
01/11/18 12:47 PM
01/11/18 12:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,856
Idaho
CT8 Online content
CT8  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,856
Idaho
Pleats tear because of minimal quality standards.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: Linctex] #4631415
01/11/18 01:07 PM
01/11/18 01:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: Charlie2015
"pressure differential"


And "surface area"

The wider pleats have a greater horizontal component of surface area....
The narrower pleats have a greater vertical component of surface area (column strength!)

It's easy to punch your fist through a piece of 1/4" drywall... on the surface (but not on edge)


I once pushed a coworker through the drywall in our office while we were horsing around...luckily we had a couple of guys who were good at fixing drywall, I took care of the painting as I had a lot of experience with that. Only bad thing it was a very long wall and I painted the whole thing rather than mess around with trying to blend it...lost most of a Saturday to pay for acting like little boys!


2014 Forester XT, 86000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4631486
01/11/18 02:12 PM
01/11/18 02:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,378
Houston, Texas
WellOiled Offline
WellOiled  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,378
Houston, Texas
1. The wide pleat spacing near the seam creates a point(s) of maximum stress.
2. Weak brittle media.
3. Use conditions
a) DP across the filter element increases as the filter loads up with dirt.
b) Cold oil has a high viscosity. The viscosity increases with decreasing temperature. DP across the filter element will be higher with cold oil than hot oil.
c) User revs the engine during cold starts. DP across the filter element will be higher at high RPMs.
d) Lack of maintenance: if the bypass valve is slow opening due to varnish or other deposits, then additional stresses can be applied to the media.
e) Choice of oil weight: Using an oil weight greater than what is specified for the engine.

Combine all these factors and it is not difficult to see why the pleats can and sometimes do tear.


2004 Ford Ranger 4.0L V6
Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5W30 + Fram Tough Guard
Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: WellOiled] #4631552
01/11/18 03:19 PM
01/11/18 03:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
BlueOvalFitter Offline OP
BlueOvalFitter  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
1. The wide pleat spacing near the seam creates a point(s) of maximum stress.
2. Weak brittle media.
3. Use conditions
a) DP across the filter element increases as the filter loads up with dirt.
b) Cold oil has a high viscosity. The viscosity increases with decreasing temperature. DP across the filter element will be higher with cold oil than hot oil.
c) User revs the engine during cold starts. DP across the filter element will be higher at high RPMs.
d) Lack of maintenance: if the bypass valve is slow opening due to varnish or other deposits, then additional stresses can be applied to the media.
e) Choice of oil weight: Using an oil weight greater than what is specified for the engine.

Combine all these factors and it is not difficult to see why the pleats can and sometimes do tear.

What if an engine was built from 1997-2008, and in 1997 said engine was spec'd 5W30? Then, in 2000, said engine is now spec'd to use 5W20, BUT, the tolerances and clearances NEVER changed in said engine all of those years it was built. The owner wants to use 5W30 in said 2007 engine. Will the oil weight that is greater than what is spec'd cause the pleats to tear?
The same name brand (MC FL-400S) oil filter that was used in 1997 is still being used in 2008, and said engine uses/used that filter all the years it was built.

Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4631566
01/11/18 03:31 PM
01/11/18 03:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,730
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,730
PNW
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
What if an engine was built from 1997-2008, and in 1997 said engine was spec'd 5W30? Then, in 2000, said engine is now spec'd to use 5W20, BUT, the tolerances and clearances NEVER changed in said engine all of those years it was built. The owner wants to use 5W30 in said 2007 engine. Will the oil weight that is greater than what is spec'd cause the pleats to tear?

Only if the filter is a piece of junk. laugh

Going from 5W-20 to 5W-30 shouldn't matter. The difference in viscosity at full engine temp is negligible in terms of delta-p across the filter.

If you went from 5W-20 to 20W-50 and did some high cold start engine revs, then yes a weak filter might tear. A well build filter will stil survive.

Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4631590
01/11/18 04:03 PM
01/11/18 04:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,228
CA
CharlieBauer Online content
CharlieBauer  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,228
CA
Have there been more tears in cold climates vs warmer climates?


It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that ain't so.

- mistakenly attributed to Mark Twain
Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: CharlieBauer] #4631594
01/11/18 04:08 PM
01/11/18 04:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,730
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,730
PNW
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Have there been more tears in cold climates vs warmer climates?

Cold weather use is going to push weak filters closer to the failure point.

Any well designed and strong filter should never fail in any operating conditions thrown at it.

Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4631602
01/11/18 04:23 PM
01/11/18 04:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,378
Houston, Texas
WellOiled Offline
WellOiled  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,378
Houston, Texas
BOF - ZeeOSix is spot on.


2004 Ford Ranger 4.0L V6
Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5W30 + Fram Tough Guard
Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: WellOiled] #4631615
01/11/18 04:45 PM
01/11/18 04:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
BlueOvalFitter Offline OP
BlueOvalFitter  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
BOF - ZeeOSix is spot on.

Yes he is.
And, I want all of those out there to read my response about the engine made from 97-08. When you start babbling about how an engine spec'd 5W20 CAN'T use 5W30, get ALL of the facts about the engine first! Then, you won't look so foolish when you're corrected!
Thank You Z06. thumbsup USA

Re: How/Why The Pleats Tear [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #4631666
01/11/18 06:03 PM
01/11/18 06:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,378
Houston, Texas
WellOiled Offline
WellOiled  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,378
Houston, Texas
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
BOF - ZeeOSix is spot on.

Yes he is.
And, I want all of those out there to read my response about the engine made from 97-08. When you start babbling about how an engine spec'd 5W20 CAN'T use 5W30, get ALL of the facts about the engine first! Then, you won't look so foolish when you're corrected!
Thank You Z06. thumbsup USA

There is not much difference between 5W20 and 5W30 at temperatures less than freezing which is where this counts.


2004 Ford Ranger 4.0L V6
Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5W30 + Fram Tough Guard
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