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0W-40 pros & cons... #4630661
01/10/18 04:57 PM
01/10/18 04:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,834
WI.
dblshock Offline OP
dblshock  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,834
WI.
If your speced for a CAFE 0/20 and concerned for drag friction vs. wear just short fill it with 0/40 like 1/8" lower than you would otherwise.
...double protection with even less friction drag.


16 Civic Coupe Touring 33k
640:1 TCW-3 E091
Edge 0/40 XG7317
Firehawk Indy 500

06 4Runner SR5 141k
640:1 TCW-3
M1 0/40 XG3614
Falken Wildpeak AT3W
Re: 0W-40 pros & cons... [Re: dblshock] #4630673
01/10/18 05:11 PM
01/10/18 05:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,937
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,937
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Some of the newer engines are specifically designed for xw20 oil verses engines that were designed for multiple grades that can use xw20 and get by with it.
If the engine is designed for it there is no benefit in going with heavier weight oil, in fact with the clearances and surface finish on the crank and dual stage oil pumps it may be detrimental.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: 0W-40 pros & cons... [Re: dblshock] #4630678
01/10/18 05:16 PM
01/10/18 05:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,393
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,393
Kendall, FL
popcorn2 popcorn


'18 KIA Sportage LX AWD 2.4L: MSS 10w30
'13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: EDGE 5w30
Re: 0W-40 pros & cons... [Re: dblshock] #4630681
01/10/18 05:22 PM
01/10/18 05:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,345
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Offline
Snagglefoot  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,345
SE British Columbia, Canada
horse Cheers2

40 weight is becoming a dead issue. Take a look at GM. 0-20, 5-20, 5-30. Period.

Gas mileage requirements and a need for thinner oil to keep the AFM system operable are the main reasons. The Doxos designation is required to keep those fancy lifters in good shape.

SF


If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: 0W-40 pros & cons... [Re: dblshock] #4630682
01/10/18 05:23 PM
01/10/18 05:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
OK, I'll bite...how does underfilling a bit lower the friction drag?
I would imagine any reasonable answer would also imply a loss of protection...


2014 Forester XT, 86000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: 0W-40 pros & cons... [Re: Virtus_Probi] #4630684
01/10/18 05:31 PM
01/10/18 05:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,365
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Online content
Chris142  Online Content
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,365
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
OK, I'll bite...how does underfilling a bit lower the friction drag?
I would imagine any reasonable answer would also imply a loss of protection...
ya what the heck?


02 Wrangler durablend 10w40
87 F250 traveler 15w40
04 Tahoe super-s 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40
Re: 0W-40 pros & cons... [Re: dblshock] #4630685
01/10/18 05:33 PM
01/10/18 05:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,031
Middlesex County CT
simple_gifts Offline
simple_gifts  Offline
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,031
Middlesex County CT
Never seen CAFE 0/20 in my owners manual.

t


2004 Prius; 97K ML Syn 5W-30
2007 Yaris 71K 0w-40 Castrol
2006 B2300;130K;ALM


Was driving an ox cart; Now on the USS Enterprise
Re: 0W-40 pros & cons... [Re: simple_gifts] #4630690
01/10/18 05:46 PM
01/10/18 05:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Never seen CAFE 0/20 in my owners manual.

t


That's a popular PQIA red dot grade...


2014 Forester XT, 86000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: 0W-40 pros & cons... [Re: dblshock] #4630707
01/10/18 06:09 PM
01/10/18 06:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,625
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,625
Down Under
I honestly don't believe this "modern engines are specifically designed for xw20 only" thing. Sure modern engines run well on 20 grades, and they are well establish oils that work well and protect well, they are also certainly encouraged by the manufacturer as they ccontribute positively to fuel economy - maybe only a little bit, but it all adds up.

If you look at engine clearances they are typically measured in 10's of microns, while if you look at operational oil film thicknesses they are typically measured in single microns (Shannow has some good tables here). Any reasonable oil grade should operate fine in any reasonable mass produced engine. As long as it starts OK or it's not being raced.

Also look at the effects of temperature
M1 0W40 FS
KV40 = 70.8 cSt
KV100 = 12.9 cSt

M1 0W20 AFE
KV40 = 44.8 cSt
KV100 = 8.7 cSt

Right now I am in the middle of an hot Australian summer while most of you are in the middle of a cold North American winter. It's not unusual for me to "cold" start my car at 40C and quickly go up from there, here overheating cars, of which I've seen a few recently, are the big issue. But in NA you could be starting your car at -30C and maybe then short tripping it to work, with the oil never fully heating up.

Given the above situation, with the same cars, me running 0W40 in Australia and you running a 0W20 in NA, it's quite possible that for most of the drive I'm running the lower viscosity oil (as in operational viscosity). It's easy for a cold 20 grade to be a lot thicker than a hot 40 grade.

So if a modern engine isn't designed to run well on a 40 grade at full operational temperature, then how does it run on a 20 grads at below 0F (-20 C) ?


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: 0W-40 pros & cons... [Re: dblshock] #4630715
01/10/18 06:18 PM
01/10/18 06:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 802
NC
Vladiator Offline
Vladiator  Offline
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 802
NC
OK I am officially a 0w20 convert...I think... BUT 0w40 does have a lot of benefits. This is just from personal experience with my vehicles, your results may vary.
Pros:
- Much easier starting than any 5w30. I started to notice the difference from 40įF and below.
- Little to no "metal rattle" at high RPMS, compared to 0w20, 0w30, 5w30. It is more of a metal cricket sound than a rattle, but 0w40 heals it. No, it is not a mechanical problem, just the nature of the engines I serviced.
- Same type of rattle/tick never shows up after excessive idling on 0w40. It always becomes more audible after excessive idling with 0w20, 0w30, 5w30.
- Out of 0w40s that I have tried - PENNZOIL 0w40 SRT actually improves my MPG by a hair across the range. Improved the MPG in 2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid by 3mpg.


Cons:
- Castrol 0w40, Mobil1 0w40, and PENNZOIL Euro 0w40 give a slight MPG hit. Very little, not significant, maybe 1-2mpg at most across the board. PENNZOIL 0W40 SRT DOES NOT have that issue.

No other Cons from my experience in my daily drivers. Results could be different in more demanding applications. Just sharing my real world experience.


2000 Lexus GS300-361k
1999 Lexus GS400-213k
2006 Toyota Camry-187k
2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid-125k
2009 Scion xB-120k
2013 VW Tiguan-120k
2009 Toyota Tacoma-60k
Re: 0W-40 pros & cons... [Re: dblshock] #4630716
01/10/18 06:20 PM
01/10/18 06:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,734
Texas, Mentone for work, Galve...
Bryanccfshr Offline
Bryanccfshr  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,734
Texas, Mentone for work, Galve...
I donít understand the underfilling having any relevance.
The viscosity difference is negligible.It really doesnít make a big difference. Low power engines (less this 200hp)May have a difference in performance while cold.


2018 Trd Pro 4Runner M1 0w40
2018 Tacoma off-road Castrol 5w30 Magnatec
Re: 0W-40 pros & cons... [Re: SR5] #4630720
01/10/18 06:25 PM
01/10/18 06:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 802
NC
Vladiator Offline
Vladiator  Offline
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 802
NC
Originally Posted By: SR5
It's easy for a cold 20 grade to be a lot thicker than a hot 40 grade.

So if a modern engine isn't designed to run well on a 40 grade at full operational temperature, then how does it run on a 20 grads at below 0F (-20 C) ?



EXACTLY! Funny how so many people refuse to realize that simple fact.

P.S. I really Crack up when I hear or read some people say that they don't want to use w40 because it will clog up the oil passages in the engine.


2000 Lexus GS300-361k
1999 Lexus GS400-213k
2006 Toyota Camry-187k
2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid-125k
2009 Scion xB-120k
2013 VW Tiguan-120k
2009 Toyota Tacoma-60k
Re: 0W-40 pros & cons... [Re: dblshock] #4630725
01/10/18 06:31 PM
01/10/18 06:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,908
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,908
'Stralia
Designed specifically for thinner oils...

OK, Honda admit that they are making bearings bigger (length and diameter), while reducing oil clearances. This is the behaviour to increase minimum oil film thickness with thinner oils...aka they have reached the point where they can't go thinner on bearings.

Why are they doing this ?

Primarily to reduce the still comparatively massive piston/skirt frictional losses, by reducing viscosity.

This will decrease skirt drag, while increasing bearing drag, so there's an optimisation taking place.

So YES, Honda are designing engines for thinner oils.

But that's not an argument that these engines must exclusively use them. Per SR5, can't ever cold start them if 12Cst is going to damage an 8cst engine.

Re: 0W-40 pros & cons... [Re: dblshock] #4630730
01/10/18 06:36 PM
01/10/18 06:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,471
Soviet State of Washington
PimTac Online content
PimTac  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,471
Soviet State of Washington
And this is another episode of The Thick and Thin Oil Turns, the most popular soap opera on BITOG.


2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter

Re: 0W-40 pros & cons... [Re: PimTac] #4630733
01/10/18 06:43 PM
01/10/18 06:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,231
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Online content
JohnnyJohnson  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,231
Wet side WA
Originally Posted By: PimTac
And this is another episode of The Thick and Thin Oil Turns, the most popular soap opera on BITOG.


crackmeup thumbsup


2004 Corolla 124831
Out: VML 5w-30 TG4967 OCI 5007 Miles
In: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 122537 7-18-18
2006 Duramax 74277
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 74705 4-22-18
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