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#4630092 - 01/10/18 08:17 AM '05 Saturn Vue 2.2 & XG9018
XL1200RFan Offline


Registered: 10/26/16
Posts: 14
Loc: Georgia, USA
In 2015 some friends picked up an '05 Vue 5-speed for their daughter. Mileage was about 155K and it obviously had not been "over-maintained", to be kind. Not knowing its' history, I performed the first oil change with some 5W-30 PP and a K&N cartridge filter. At the next oil change (5K seemed like a good initial interval) I found it about 2 quarts down, with no external leaks...so we've got a consumption issue. Transitioned to a high-milage oil (I don't recall which one) and throttled back to a 3K interval. At the next oil change we're still down about 2 quarts, and now I see "coffee grounds" trapped in the filter pleats...so we've got some cleaning going on.

Since I hadn't used Kreen before, this poor baby looked like a great candidate to get some first hand experience with it. I put half in about a week before the oil change was due, and the rest one day before. When I pulled the filter the pleats were packed with very fine particles.

Since then, I've been using mostly VML or QSHM and Fram Ultra XG9018 at 3K intervals. Attached is a photo from the latest change (she's now at 197K)...still a whole lotta clean' goin' on.

_________________________
John

2016 F-150 3.5 CE EP 5W-20 MC FL-500S
2014 Volvo XC60 3.2 PP 5W-30 Mann HU9254Y
2003 Chevy Express 2500HD 6.0 M1 EP 5W-30 Ultra XG3506


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#4630097 - 01/10/18 08:27 AM Re: '05 Saturn Vue 2.2 & XG9018 [Re: XL1200RFan]
WobblyElvis Offline


Registered: 09/23/14
Posts: 1343
Loc: Toronto Canada
I have the same engine which is also using some oil. I believe the piston rings are worn allowing gases/carbon to contaminate the oil and the filter is picking it up. The oil is leaving the crankcase through the breather to the intake plenum just before the throttle body. You might want to look at the throttle plate and see if it's coated in dirty oil.
Some people want to run an oil filter multiple oil changes. This is one reason not to.

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#4630135 - 01/10/18 08:58 AM Re: '05 Saturn Vue 2.2 & XG9018 [Re: XL1200RFan]
XL1200RFan Offline


Registered: 10/26/16
Posts: 14
Loc: Georgia, USA
Good thoughts; I'll take a close look at the throttle body at 200K. I figure at this point the oil consumption we're dealing with is some combination of wear & stuck rings. My goal (something of a personal challenge) has been to see if through frequent changes of quality Dexos/HM oils and the occasional Kreen treatment, I can get the filters to look "normal" i.g. not packed with soot at 3K. Of course, without some disassembly I can't tell how much of the carbon the filter is picking up is due to blow-by and how much is sludge cleaning from prior neglect. For those of us of the BITOG persuasion, it is a fun exercise.
_________________________
John

2016 F-150 3.5 CE EP 5W-20 MC FL-500S
2014 Volvo XC60 3.2 PP 5W-30 Mann HU9254Y
2003 Chevy Express 2500HD 6.0 M1 EP 5W-30 Ultra XG3506


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#4630235 - 01/10/18 10:06 AM Re: '05 Saturn Vue 2.2 & XG9018 [Re: XL1200RFan]
thorromig Offline


Registered: 03/22/12
Posts: 804
Loc: BerksCounty/Pa.
Is it still consuming two quarts of oil in 3000 miles like previously? Why are you continually using the Fram Ultra & not a TG at those OCI intervals? Heck even a Super Tech oil filter or OCOD filter at 3000 mile intervals would be suffice I would say??? Good luck -- seems like those Saturns keep the petroleum companys in business & then some.
_________________________
00 Dodge Ram 5.2L 4x4 Edge 10W30 FU (91K)
08 Acura TL Type S 3.5L PUPP 5W20 FU (101K)
17 Jetta TSI SE 1.4L Turbo - Edge 0W40 FU (Hers) (4K)

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#4630244 - 01/10/18 10:11 AM Re: '05 Saturn Vue 2.2 & XG9018 [Re: thorromig]
WobblyElvis Offline


Registered: 09/23/14
Posts: 1343
Loc: Toronto Canada
Originally Posted By: thorromig
Is it still consuming two quarts of oil in 3000 miles like previously? Why are you continually using the Fram Ultra & not a TG at those OCI intervals? Heck even a Super Tech oil filter or OCOD filter at 3000 mile intervals would be suffice I would say??? Good luck -- seems like those Saturns keep the petroleum companys in business & then some.


If a filter with only 1/2 the capacity to hold contaminants was used, would the filter go into bypass trying to hold onto what this filter has captured? I can't say I know the answer, but by the looks of that filter I would not use a filter with lesser capacity.

Very important not to run low on oil.

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#4630350 - 01/10/18 11:22 AM Re: '05 Saturn Vue 2.2 & XG9018 [Re: XL1200RFan]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 7664
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
How is the blowby? A piston soak (like used on the smaller Saturns) might help, but it might need a re-ring to stop it completely.
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 15 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)

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#4630378 - 01/10/18 11:43 AM Re: '05 Saturn Vue 2.2 & XG9018 [Re: thorromig]
XL1200RFan Offline


Registered: 10/26/16
Posts: 14
Loc: Georgia, USA
A fair question, particularly in light of the relatively short 3K OCI.

My rationale for using the XG vs. TG is thus: Between the higher quality oils now being used and the previous Kreen treatment, I suspect some percentage of what the oil filter is capturing is from the slow liberation of accumulated crud from the years of prior neglect. Although regardless of their source, it seems intuitively desirable to capture the smallest particle size possible and as high a percentage of them as possible. Current BITOG wisdom suggests the Ultras are using first-rate media, so use of the XG is consistent with my goals, and the roughly $3 cost difference between the TG9018 & XG9018 is not a factor. I know at nearly 200K the engine is worn and even the best modern oils & filters aren't going to compensate for a decade of "who cares" maintenance.

As a side note: I have a small shop & I maintain about thirty older vehicles (5-15 years) on a generally not-for-profit basis...mostly single Moms who are 2nd or 3rd owners of poorly maintained, nearly clapped-out junk...at least till I start looking after them. These are the folks who can't afford $100 shop rates, who may even struggle paying my cost for the oil & filters I buy at Walmart. Obviously they certainly can't afford to replace their vehicle if it lays down on them...and if they are forced to replace their car or van can only play in the $1000-$2000 end of the used car pool - in my experience the "pure junk" end of the pool.

That being said, there has long been a tendency as their cars age for folks to decrease the frequency of maintenance and quality of the parts & materials being used. This is a mistake. My contention is that those who can least afford a road side breakdown or to replace their vehicle should pay the most attention to their vehicle and maintain it as if it were new. I recognize as an A&P mechanic my aviation background influences my approach to car maintenance, but no one ever complains "my car is too reliable" or "has lasted to long" :-)
_________________________
John

2016 F-150 3.5 CE EP 5W-20 MC FL-500S
2014 Volvo XC60 3.2 PP 5W-30 Mann HU9254Y
2003 Chevy Express 2500HD 6.0 M1 EP 5W-30 Ultra XG3506


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#4630407 - 01/10/18 12:02 PM Re: '05 Saturn Vue 2.2 & XG9018 [Re: bullwinkle]
XL1200RFan Offline


Registered: 10/26/16
Posts: 14
Loc: Georgia, USA
Up to now I have not considered a piston soak (thinking perhaps the Kreen in the crankcase would be sufficient) but I think I'll give it a try (using Kreen) at the next oil change. Thanks for the suggestion...
_________________________
John

2016 F-150 3.5 CE EP 5W-20 MC FL-500S
2014 Volvo XC60 3.2 PP 5W-30 Mann HU9254Y
2003 Chevy Express 2500HD 6.0 M1 EP 5W-30 Ultra XG3506


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#4630423 - 01/10/18 12:18 PM Re: '05 Saturn Vue 2.2 & XG9018 [Re: XL1200RFan]
incognito_2u Offline


Registered: 12/15/16
Posts: 113
Loc: Long Island, N.Y.
Originally Posted By: XL1200RFan
.....I think I'll give it a try (using Kreen) at the next oil change. Thanks for the suggestion...


That engine is a great candidate for a "Kreen" piston-soak treatment.
Just be sure you do the soak before you do the Oil change so that all that kreen/crud mixture will drop down back into the crankcase and removed when the oil is changed.
_________________________
2006 Jeep Commander 3.7 V6 -108k (PUP/XG3600)
2006 Toyota Corolla 1.8 VVTi -76k (PPHM/XG3600)
1999 Toyota Corolla 1.8 -77k (PUP/XG4386)

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#4630429 - 01/10/18 12:24 PM Re: '05 Saturn Vue 2.2 & XG9018 [Re: XL1200RFan]
SatinSilver Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 10140
Loc: OH
Perfect candidate for a Wix ST filter or a basic Fram with a high efficiency rating at 20 microns. The basic Fram is 95% efficient at 20 microns. That's nuts using an ultra for only 3k miles. What about doing an engine flush with Motor Medic or CRC engine flush? Idle 5 mins, drain etc.

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#4630469 - 01/10/18 01:02 PM Re: '05 Saturn Vue 2.2 & XG9018 [Re: XL1200RFan]
WellOiled Offline


Registered: 10/03/15
Posts: 1356
Loc: Houston, Texas
Rock auto basic filters would be cheap and very good for such a cleanup.
_________________________
2004 Ford Ranger 4.0L V6
NAPA Full Synthetic 5W30 + Fram Tough Guard

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#4630526 - 01/10/18 01:45 PM Re: '05 Saturn Vue 2.2 & XG9018 [Re: XL1200RFan]
JohnnyJohnson Offline


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2737
Loc: Wet side WA
That engine has more problems than a filter and oil are going to fix!
_________________________
2004 Toyota Corolla 121668
Out: QSUD 5W-30 Purolator One 5030
In: Valvoline ML 5w-30 TG4967 117530 2-8-18
2006 Duramax 74047
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73752 4-22-18

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#4630727 - 01/10/18 05:32 PM Re: '05 Saturn Vue 2.2 & XG9018 [Re: XL1200RFan]
cronk Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1287
Loc: Watertown, New York
I have a Cavalier with the same engine.
It had 180k and appeared to have had fair but not great maintenance.
I had some similar looking dirty filters my first couple oil changes.
Had good luck with the AC Delco "hengst" made filter.
Currently running an Amsoil filter, its construction looked great!
_________________________
1998 GMC C1500
2003 Chevy Cavalier
2011 Nissan Quest
1986 Pontiac Trans Am
1940 Ford 9N Tractor
Amsoil lubes and filters!

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