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Est first use date for API SN Plus - May/June '18 #4629368
01/09/18 03:48 PM
01/09/18 03:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,568
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,568
Kendall, FL


'18 Sportage LX AWD Pennzoil Platinum 5w20
'13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T Castrol GTX Magnatec 5w30
Re: Est first use date for API SN Plus - May/June '18 [Re: wemay] #4629460
01/09/18 05:18 PM
01/09/18 05:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,764
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,764
...
I wonder if this is any different than dexos gen2?


2017 Mazda CX-5 GT.

Valvoline Modern Engine 0w20
Mobil 1 EP 108A
Re: Est first use date for API SN Plus - May/June '18 [Re: wemay] #4629493
01/09/18 05:45 PM
01/09/18 05:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,568
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,568
Kendall, FL
Yeah, me too. I'm not up to speed on what tests must be passed to meet SN Plus.


'18 Sportage LX AWD Pennzoil Platinum 5w20
'13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T Castrol GTX Magnatec 5w30
Re: Est first use date for API SN Plus - May/June '18 [Re: wemay] #4629520
01/09/18 06:08 PM
01/09/18 06:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,061
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,061
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Awesome! More cheap clearance oil! Whoops, got too much already.


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: Est first use date for API SN Plus - May/June '18 [Re: wemay] #4629683
01/09/18 08:21 PM
01/09/18 08:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,456
Silicon Valley
PandaBear Offline
PandaBear  Offline
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,456
Silicon Valley
So does that mean by then we will have some massive clearance discount / rebate on the old SN stock?


"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah
Re: Est first use date for API SN Plus - May/June '18 [Re: wemay] #4631612
01/11/18 04:43 PM
01/11/18 04:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 945
Toronto ON
Solarent Offline
Solarent  Offline
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 945
Toronto ON
Originally Posted By: wemay
Yeah, me too. I'm not up to speed on what tests must be passed to meet SN Plus.


SN Plus will include all the current GF-5 tests plus a couple of new ones:

Ford LSPI test (Sequence IX) which was developed for GF-6
Chain wear test (not sure the number of that one...) also developed for GF-6
Sequence VIE protocol will replace sequence VID becasue VID is no longer able to be run (the industry ran out of parts) - this is the fuel economy test for resource conserving designation on ILSAC grades.

Dexos1 is a completely different set of tests and isn't the same. That said most Dexos1:2015 oils should be able to meet SN Plus.
Take a look at this announcement from Shell:
Link

Re: Est first use date for API SN Plus - May/June '18 [Re: wemay] #4633962
01/13/18 08:10 PM
01/13/18 08:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,207
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,207
'Stralia
Solarent,
what's the reference viscosity for the economy tests ?

Is it something remotely reasonable, or still something (like) 15W30 ?

Re: Est first use date for API SN Plus - May/June '18 [Re: wemay] #4634147
01/14/18 01:16 AM
01/14/18 01:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,164
Europe
SonofJoe Offline
SonofJoe  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,164
Europe
I can't directly copy the PDF links to this post but you should be able to Google the info for yourselves (if someone does know how to copy the links, please add them)...

Okay, I see that last December, Afton launched two new PCMO DI packages. You can find the two product data sheets freely available to read on their website.

HitecŪ11145 is a GF-5/SN pack that has demonstrated performance on TGDI engines (both Ford & GM). Although it's not specifically stated, one might assume that this product is good for GF-5+. It has a treat rate of 8.5%.

HitecŪ11180 is a DI pack which as well as meeting GF-5/SN, also meets the requirements of GM dexos 1™ Gen 2. The DI treats at 10.1%.

Both product data sheets provide data on Pre-ignition (GM SPI, Ford LPSI), Wear (Seq IVB, Ford Timing Chain Wear...both future GF-6 tests) & Cleanliness (GM Oxidation, GM Deposits). The test results are suitably obfuscated and are shown as '% of spec limit'. You should note that the HitecŪ11180 data sheet provides a result for GM Turbo Cleanliness whereas the HitecŪ11145 datasheet doesn't. One can never be sure but one might infer that this is because the latter doesn't actually pass the GM Turbo test (which is why there's no result).

Neither PDF provides any information on the types of base oil or VII used to generate the test data. Nor is it stated whether HitecŪ11180 is HitecŪ11145 with a 1.6% boost of 'something' added on top. No information on whether the Detergent is calcium or magnesium based is provided.

HitecŪ11145 has a quoted TBN of 86 which would imply a finished oil with a TBN of 7.3. No TBN data is provided for HitecŪ11180.

It's something of a fool's errand to contrast the data provided in the two data sheets. These could have been generated with different base oils & even different viscocity grades. However, if like me, you err towards the foolish, you might note that the higher treat rate product is...

- the same on GM SPI (both are zero%)
- better on Ford LSPI (60% vs 70%)
- better on Sea IVB wear (50% vs 84%)
- similar on Ford Timing Chain Wear (80% vs 75%)
- similar on GM Oxidation (25% vs 21%)
- similar on GM Deposits (85% vs 81%)
- only HitecŪ11180 has a GM Turbo Cleanliness result (25%)

My one big take from this is the info on LSPI. I have long argued that LSPI was a problem that had been massively exaggerated & over-hyped by certain overly neurotic US OEMs. This info suggests that a relatively low treat rate DI pack can zap LSPI dead in its tracks on GM TGDI engines and control it in Ford TGDI engines. I freely accept that this might require oils to be fully (or predominantly) Group III based but if this is the case, why didn't they just come out with it and says so in the first place?

Re: Est first use date for API SN Plus - May/June '18 [Re: wemay] #4635388
01/15/18 07:23 AM
01/15/18 07:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,576
Wilmington, NC
harry j Offline
harry j  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,576
Wilmington, NC
I have been using the new spec 0W-30 oil for over 10,000 miles (Amsoil) and compared to

the old type (also 0W-30), I have seen a increase of 3 MPG.

Re: Est first use date for API SN Plus - May/June '18 [Re: Shannow] #4637499
01/17/18 09:42 AM
01/17/18 09:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 945
Toronto ON
Solarent Offline
Solarent  Offline
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 945
Toronto ON
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Solarent,
what's the reference viscosity for the economy tests ?

Is it something remotely reasonable, or still something (like) 15W30 ?


The baseline oil for the VID was a 20W30 - with the FEI measured against that. I think it is the same for the VIE.
However there are reference oils that are used to calibrate the engines for 0W20, 5W20, 5W30 which were used to help set up the suitability of the VIE as a substitute for the VID for SN+

Re: Est first use date for API SN Plus - May/June '18 [Re: SonofJoe] #4637503
01/17/18 09:45 AM
01/17/18 09:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 945
Toronto ON
Solarent Offline
Solarent  Offline
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 945
Toronto ON
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
why didn't they just come out with it and says so in the first place?


Then they would have to admit to the public that there was an issue and deal with the mass hysteria demanding recalled vehicles or fee oil changes for life!

Re: Est first use date for API SN Plus - May/June '18 [Re: Solarent] #4637894
01/17/18 05:28 PM
01/17/18 05:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,207
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,207
'Stralia
Originally Posted By: Solarent
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Solarent,
what's the reference viscosity for the economy tests ?

Is it something remotely reasonable, or still something (like) 15W30 ?


The baseline oil for the VID was a 20W30 - with the FEI measured against that. I think it is the same for the VIE.
However there are reference oils that are used to calibrate the engines for 0W20, 5W20, 5W30 which were used to help set up the suitability of the VIE as a substitute for the VID for SN+


Thanks.

I get having a baseline that you can actually measure from, but it then fuels silly things like Mobil's AFE claims of 0.3 to 2.3% economy improvement...leading people to believe that swapping one ILSAC with AFE will get them that.

(same with the IVA claims about wear protection that are everywhere these days...half the wear of the competitors, when it's half the allowable on the test.)

Re: Est first use date for API SN Plus - May/June '18 [Re: Shannow] #4637898
01/17/18 05:35 PM
01/17/18 05:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,600
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,600
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
At least the HDEO sheets are a little more honest. The 5w-30 E6 sheets I've all seen mention fuel economy improvements, but they specifically mention as measured versus a 15w-40. I'm sure the FA-4 sheets do similarly.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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