Silverado cold start lifter tick

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: burla
TN moly seams to have no better effect then organic moly in redline, if it is the Moly that is the key, a distinct possibility. PUP 0w40 if TN moly, and Amsoil 5w30 if TN moly, both left ticks killed by redline. I still do not know why redline is killing the ticks, just that it is killing the ticks. Could be the moly, in which case a super dose of Lubeguards biotech in theory should also kill ticks. or polarity of the base oil, in which case you would need ester content to kill ticks, also possible to duplicate with bio guards biotech, but impossible to isolate as they have no known organic moly additive w/o esters, a note maybe liquimoly newer moly treat might for the first time have a similar moly dose w/o esters. Yes some success was had with Mso2, but not nearly the same as redline at killing ticks. If hths was the key, hard to believe as 5w20 redline has also killed ticks including mine. Answer to why is still in the air, answer "if" has been settled to a high degree. It is worth a shot of you don't replace the lifters, unless you like the tick.


I doubt the AMSOIL product has TN.

When you say PUP 0w-40, do you mean the Euro or SRT version? The SRT one has a decent dose but we don't know if it is TN or not.

If it's the moly, increasing the dose significantly should cause the exact same effect as Redline. If it doesn't, it isn't.

If it's the ester content, running something like 300V should then in turn have similar results. Has anybody tried 300V?

If it was HTHS, anybody running a heavier lube like the 0w-40 should see the improvement.

 

[MParr]

SEARCH: ticking Vortec engines
The road goes on forever!

 

[burla]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: burla
TN moly seams to have no better effect then organic moly in redline, if it is the Moly that is the key, a distinct possibility. PUP 0w40 if TN moly, and Amsoil 5w30 if TN moly, both left ticks killed by redline. I still do not know why redline is killing the ticks, just that it is killing the ticks. Could be the moly, in which case a super dose of Lubeguards biotech in theory should also kill ticks. or polarity of the base oil, in which case you would need ester content to kill ticks, also possible to duplicate with bio guards biotech, but impossible to isolate as they have no known organic moly additive w/o esters, a note maybe liquimoly newer moly treat might for the first time have a similar moly dose w/o esters. Yes some success was had with Mso2, but not nearly the same as redline at killing ticks. If hths was the key, hard to believe as 5w20 redline has also killed ticks including mine. Answer to why is still in the air, answer "if" has been settled to a high degree. It is worth a shot of you don't replace the lifters, unless you like the tick.


I doubt the AMSOIL product has TN.

When you say PUP 0w-40, do you mean the Euro or SRT version? The SRT one has a decent dose but we don't know if it is TN or not.

If it's the moly, increasing the dose significantly should cause the exact same effect as Redline. If it doesn't, it isn't.

If it's the ester content, running something like 300V should then in turn have similar results. Has anybody tried 300V?

If it was HTHS, anybody running a heavier lube like the 0w-40 should see the improvement.


SRT version.

Agreed with your moly statement, but to match redline you would need the organic oil soluble moly, only lubeguards biotech and liqui moly next gen that I know of have that. Lubeguards biotech produced promising results. If I was to try it and I had lifter tick, I wouldn't be shy about the dose, I might consider an entire qrt of it. Other suggestions for moly treatment are welcome.

To my disappointment nobody tried Motul even with my urging over the last 5 plus years. In theory is seams pretty close to redline, it should produce similar results. I really hope the future will bring more guys with lifter tick trying Motul.

The real question is does it even matter, we may be masking a problem. I don't really know either way, but I don't follow the use an oil that will leave the tick if there is another option that has a good chance at killing it. The best options would be to fix the issue, but we have had guys, well a guy, replace lifters and still have tick/knock. For whatever reason some of these modern V8's are more susceptible to it then older ones.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: irv
I wasn't aware of that? I thought, from what I have seen, that Redline poured pretty good in the cold? Maybe it does, but you're saying PP is a lot better? What about PUP 5W-30, I assume the same thing or better?

Red Line has a very impressive pour point, which speaks to its high quality base stocks. Something like PP or PUP in 5w-30, versus a 5w-30 Red Line, would perform better, with significantly better CCS and MRV numbers. ILSAC lubes tend to have better CCS and MRV values within a grade versus a Euro or HDEO in the same grade.

In fact, Petro-Canada conventional 5w-30 is better at the cold weather numbers than is Red Line 5w-30. As for PUP versus PP, I think the PP beats PUP by a tiny amount, virtually insignificant.

burla: Don't bother with pour point games. Some of us know better. Red Line has a wonderful pour point, but because of the elevated HTHS within a grade does bare passes for the CCS and MRV within a grade. Red Line gets beaten by close to 20% on those tests versus even a good conventional ILSAC lube. Now, that isn't a slam on Red Line. However, choosing Red Line solely for cold weather performance would be silly, when there are far better choices out there. Now, if you want something with good anti-wear properties and great base stocks and combine that with the SAE grading freedom that comes with a good synthetic, Red Line is a suitable choice.

If I want something that's a 0w-XX with elevated HTHS, Red Line is a good choice. If I just want the best cold starting 0w-XX option available, Red Line is among the last places I'd look. The Amsoil ILSAC grades spank them.

 

[burla]

Pour point games, lol. Whatever, you guys that counter information against redline for whatever reason when it comes to someone choosing an oil to combat tick, are doing a disservice to that individual. Stick to your group 3 my oil is better garbage in other threads, because on this issue you are dead wrong, and people deserve the right info. Nobody is buttering my bread, if they were I would spend more tome shining you, but I neither have the time and patience for it. I'm just trying to help people with ticking engine thanks to several guys doing real world testing over several years, something I doubt you people who constantly twist info have done on this issue.

 

[Garak]

I wasn't saying anything about combating the tick, and we've been down that road before. I am saying that an ILSAC lube of the same SAE grade has superior cold weather numbers to Red Line, period. I also commented how it has superior base stocks. I said Red Line would not be my first choice for cold weather performance unless elevated HTHS within a grade were needed, or preferred their AW levels. The numbers are clear and can be readily compared, and any of the formulators here can explain why that is. There's no twisting of any information. It's something that's demonstrably true.

However, your response to any criticism of Red Line is always the same, irrespective of the criticism. If someone says it's expensive, your argument is that it cures tick. Someone says it's not API certified, and they're doing a disservice to someone with a tick. I mention that its MRV and CCS numbers are unremarkable (because it has a higher HTHS within grade), and the response is again about tick.

When Canadian Tire dropped Red Line products a couple years back, I'm sure they did so with specific goal of twisting the [censored] of people with lifter tick, right?

 

[RonRonnster]

To the OP - first, check that you don't have any missing / broken off exhaust header bolts. This is a pretty common problem on the LS 5.3Ls, 6.0Ls and 6.2Ls. I had what I thought was a nasty cold lifter tick in my Yukon, but ended up being a rearmost exhaust manifold bolt broken off on both sides of the engine. I mistook the exhaust leak for a lifter tick. It was sealed enough to be quiet when warmed up and the metal expanded, but would be very noticeable when cold. I've also had a number of GM small blocks that have ticked, but have yet to own one with AFM. The only real solution to disable AFM is to program the ECM to delete the AFM and the AFM lifters must be replaced.

My neighbor drove his 2007 Suburban with AFM to 350,000 miles before needing a top end rebuild on the engine - it started consuming a lot of oil at that point. So if you keep the truck maintained well, I don't see why you can't get a lot of miles out of your Silverado, despite the AFM.

 

[burla]

The thread was about tick man, just trying to help. For whatever reason, obviously there is a scientific one somewhere, the high moy high zddp pao/ester base is very effective at killing lifter tick.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: burla
The thread was about tick man, just trying to help. For whatever reason, obviously there is a scientific one somewhere, the high moy high zddp pao/ester base is very effective at killing lifter tick.

I have zero problem with that, and the Red Line may, indeed, solve his problem. The only way to know is to try, and you've told many stories about it helping.

However, there was the mention about the cold weather properties of Red Line, which wasn't quite accurate. I clarified that, and others had questions about that. Do note that most threads on the board wind up having side conversations and tangential topics.

I wasn't trying to subvert the idea of trying Red Line to cure a tick. However, Red Line's ability in that doesn't have to be propped up by inaccuracies about its cold starting ability.

The problem we get here is that people automatically assume that because an oil is synthetic, its cold weather performance must be absolutely stellar. That's certainly not the case, and casual readers and new members are better served by the correct information. The Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 CJ-4 in my sump is a technical synthetic. Given its HTHS and the way such oils are blended, I'd suggest its CCS and MRV numbers are inferior to ILSAC 5w-XX variants. I would also suggest that the Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30 I'll be using won't have the CCS and MRV numbers of an ILSAC 5w-30, either. That's not a knock. That's just the way the blending works. We get people thinking that a 15w-40 synthetic is better in the winter than a conventional 10w-30 or 5w-30, and that's simply not the case.

Where a synthetic shines in the cold is that it will allow for certain grades that wouldn't be so easy otherwise. I'm not going to find a 0w-40 conventional. Not only does that give me something with 0w-XX starting ability, I've also got the elevated HTHS to go with it. However, if someone is looking at a 5w-30 or a 0w-30 grade, and they simply want the best cold starting numbers possible above any other concerns and it's a vehicle allowing an ILSAC 5w-30, something like Red Line 5w-30, Castrol 5w-30 A3/B4, or Castrol 0w-30 A3/B4 won't do as well as, say, PP 5w-30, Petro-Canada 5w-30 conventional, or M1 AFE 0w-30, respectively.

That's not to say I would never use Red Line 5w-30 in the winter, given that I use 5w-XX HDEO in the winter, which would likely have similar CCS and MRV numbers in the first place. Red Line is perfectly suited to the temperatures for which it is graded. People do, however, nitpick about certain performance numbers within a grade, particularly here.

 

[burla]

As far as cold starting capability we all know the oil pump is going to get whatever oil there just about the same time. And saying I have told "many" stories I'm not getting that. I have mentioned it a couple times yes, but many other people were in that thread both from the website were we tested it and here at Bob's. If the idea doesn't take off and there aren't enough people here willing to put together something as far as a sample size and a test, then this oil website wont have the data that we have at RF. People continue to kill their ticks over there nearly on a weekly basis. I assert, if you have lifter tick, give it a shot. I get mine 10 bucks a qrt off ebay, free shipping over 100 dollars, pair it with a spun microglass filter like Amsoil or Fram Ultra or other, and you might just me amazed at what happens like all of us are. it took 500 miles for my tick to go away after I chnaged to redline, at first I thought I wasted 70 bucks on oil. Then the worst tick I could imagine just disappeared and has been gone for 5 years with the exception of one single cold start after the truck sat for weeks. that story happens over and over regardless of the person telling it. if someone bothers to try redline to silence a tick, pm me and let me know about it, whether it works or not, adds to the knowledge base.

 

[burla]

The reason there were so many people on Ram Forum willing to test this was because the phenomena of Hemi Tick. it just so happens that a significant number of hemi owners get the tick, that sounds much more like a knock. It may be that it would be harder to get a group of ticking engines at a website that doesn't have a concentrated number of ticking engines. If your engine is ticking, you can find us on ram Forum, talk to the people that have killed their ticks. Doesn't have to be redline or rp filters, as stated there are clones to those or those are clones to amsoil motul whatever.

 

[gfh77665]

I just changed the oi in my daughters 2000 5.3 Silverado, at 270,000 miles. Added 5 qt. NAPA synthetic, NAPA Gold filter, and 8 cylinder Restore. The ticking STOPPED.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: burla
As far as cold starting capability we all know the oil pump is going to get whatever oil there just about the same time.

When you're in the cold, it can make a slight difference, particularly when you're at the limits of temperature and every little bit of crank speed helps. That's what I'm talking about - getting going in the first place. Also, as I mentioned, much of it is nitpicking. Some people are interested in what oils have the best CCS and MRV numbers within a grade like 5w-30, and that's readily quantifiable. Within the 5w-30 grade, for example, none of those examples are Red Line, A3/B4 types, C3 types, or HDEOs.

Originally Posted By: burla
And saying I have told "many" stories I'm not getting that. I have mentioned it a couple times yes, but many other people were in that thread both from the website were we tested it and here at Bob's.

I'm not criticising or demeaning that at all. I didn't mean stories in a derogatory way. You've had some experiences and a result, are making a suggestion that may very well work for people, based upon those experiences. If it helps people, great. Nothing was intended to say anything bad about Red Line (I use SI-1 all the time), but just to point something about about numbers.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: RonRonnster
My neighbor drove his 2007 Suburban with AFM to 350,000 miles before needing a top end rebuild on the engine - it started consuming a lot of oil at that point. So if you keep the truck maintained well, I don't see why you can't get a lot of miles out of your Silverado, despite the AFM.


We have very high mileage AFM equipped GM V8's in our stable, one over 200k and running perfectly. Those who keep up with this stuff know that problem is long gone.

For the naysayers, please note that well over one million of these are built every year. A very few have issues, and this is simply magnified by the internet...

 

[irv]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: RonRonnster
My neighbor drove his 2007 Suburban with AFM to 350,000 miles before needing a top end rebuild on the engine - it started consuming a lot of oil at that point. So if you keep the truck maintained well, I don't see why you can't get a lot of miles out of your Silverado, despite the AFM.


We have very high mileage AFM equipped GM V8's in our stable, one over 200k and running perfectly. Those who keep up with this stuff know that problem is long gone.

For the naysayers, please note that well over one million of these are built every year. A very few have issues, and this is simply magnified by the internet...


I respectfully disagree. Many, and I mean many more people have this issue but due to the large amount of info already on the internet, many do not speak of it as they have nothing more to add.
When I had my 09 Sierra with a 5.3, I belonged to more than a few GM truck forums, and in those forums, it was very easy to a find a thread of people talking about how much they detested this issue.
Add this site up with those other forums and you will quickly learn, this problem is far more common than what you are trying to convey here.

 

[burla]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
I just changed the oi in my daughters 2000 5.3 Silverado, at 270,000 miles. Added 5 qt. NAPA synthetic, NAPA Gold filter, and 8 cylinder Restore. The ticking STOPPED.


We had some experiences like this as well, occasionally new oils have given some relief at tick, and then the tick often comes back. Read my original tick thread, we had a guy have short run success with amsoil ss and PUP 0w40, but I forget the miles but certainly way under a normal oci the tick came back. My theory being when the Vii's shear away it leaves the ticking metal vulnerable to that ticking condition. It certainly seams like the ester/pao high additive package is much better at keeping the tick away. Did your daughters tick stay away, and what was she using prior? If it's gone congrats, that means lubrication is part of the key imo. If it comes back, maybe consider testing more oils or additives that follow the science.

 

[johnD2]

I have 4.8 with 200k. The guy that owned the truck before me neglected oil changes. I'm convinced that they filled it with thick oil (20w50) when I bought it. Because my first oil change was done with 10w30 , I thought the valve train was gonna fall out. I drained it and put 10w40 in it , still some ticking. Next oil change was 2 qts of PYB 10w40 and 4 qts of PYB 20w50, w/half a bottle of liqui moly mos2 (I'm in FL so I can get away with it). That combination killed the ticking for the most part, you can slightly hear it after it has idled for about 10 minutes (but I'm content with that) I've been running that combo for 2.5 years now , engine still runs fine.
I'm not really worried about it much , because I have another engine for this truck that is fixing to get rebuilt as we speak.