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CK-4 fear and their ad packs significance.... #4625049
01/05/18 03:51 PM
01/05/18 03:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 44
South Florida
Invasivore Offline OP
Invasivore  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 44
South Florida
I am ignorant when it comes to understanding the true importance of the ad packs and base oils in the new CK-4 formulations. I have the mindset of “more is better” when it comes to zinc and phosphorus, boron, and moly, but honestly, I couldn’t tell you benefit of one over the other. The only reason I mention this is due to the recent reduction in zinc and phosphorus in Chevron DELO 5w-40 synthetic, which is the oil I currently use. Are VOA’s truly important to the uneducated consumer such as I, or should I blindly trust the spec of CK-4 and go off wear rates?

Re: CK-4 fear and their ad packs significance.... [Re: Invasivore] #4625064
01/05/18 04:02 PM
01/05/18 04:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,578
wv
krismoriah72 Offline
krismoriah72  Offline
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,578
wv
Here is a side by side VOA of Rotella 5w40 side by side.. CJ vs CK

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...SM_#Post4490450

Less Magnesium in CK4

More Calcium in CK4

More Boron in CK4

Im not an oil scientist but i would say CK4 cleans better with those higher detergents. Not sure why you would want more magnesium.

Re: CK-4 fear and their ad packs significance.... [Re: Invasivore] #4625067
01/05/18 04:03 PM
01/05/18 04:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,943
Michigan
ZZman Online content
ZZman  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,943
Michigan
As many will tell you oil formulation is a balancing act to meet certain performance goals. More isn't necessarily better. Much less compared to others might be. Some may be barely making the standards required while others surpass it.


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle oil
2008 Sebring Hardtop convertible. Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle oil
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT. Amsoil Metric 10w-40
Re: CK-4 fear and their ad packs significance.... [Re: Invasivore] #4625325
01/05/18 08:27 PM
01/05/18 08:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,306
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Online content
Snagglefoot  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,306
SE British Columbia, Canada
I don’t lose too much sleep on where my oil is in the CK-4 pecking order as long as its CK-4. However I recognize there are folks around who want to solve that issue and good on them as long as they they use science and not coffee shop here say.

SF


If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: CK-4 fear and their ad packs significance.... [Re: Invasivore] #4625397
01/05/18 09:49 PM
01/05/18 09:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,839
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,839
Kalifornia Kollective
So Chevron is claiming, rather prominently, that their new CK-4 oils offer 50% less wear (than previous oils). And since they pushed a CAT to 1,000,000 miles on old Delo, I dunno how much better they could make it ... But, they think they have.

So the coffee shop scuttle butt is that some of that additional calcium is in the form of organic calcium AW additives in lieu of the old ZDDP formula ... Reduce the zinc and phos and still achieve better wear properties. I dunno if this is so, but it's looking that way smile

Last edited by BrocLuno; 01/05/18 09:50 PM.

Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: CK-4 fear and their ad packs significance.... [Re: krismoriah72] #4626399
01/06/18 09:56 PM
01/06/18 09:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 960
SACRAMENTO, CA
rrounds Offline
rrounds  Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 960
SACRAMENTO, CA
Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
Here is a side by side VOA of Rotella 5w40 side by side.. CJ vs CK

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...SM_#Post4490450

Less Magnesium in CK4

More Calcium in CK4

More Boron in CK4

Im not an oil scientist but i would say CK4 cleans better with those higher detergents. Not sure why you would want more magnesium.


Magnesium = (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Boron = (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
All of these help keep the engine clean

ROD


'06 S2000
'00 SSEi sold at 252k miles
'08 Ford F53 V10
'13 Jeep Sahara 2 door
Re: CK-4 fear and their ad packs significance.... [Re: krismoriah72] #4627299
01/07/18 07:30 PM
01/07/18 07:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,355
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,355
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
Im not an oil scientist but i would say CK4 cleans better with those higher detergents. Not sure why you would want more magnesium.

Higher magnesium does and did have a purpose. It may have been helpful formulating early on when the first lubricants came out in CJ-4 E7, E9, with the 1.0 SA limit coupled with higher starting TBN. It always seemed to be most common in any lube (gas or diesel) when trying to ramp up TBN while limiting SA.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: CK-4 fear and their ad packs significance.... [Re: Invasivore] #4630012
01/10/18 07:36 AM
01/10/18 07:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,295
Central Iowa
TiredTrucker Offline
TiredTrucker  Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,295
Central Iowa
While the oil blenders touted how great CK-4 is compared to CJ-4, I have yet to see it. My Detroit engine, it has had 6 oil changes using CK-4 now and the UOA's look no better, or worse, than they did with CJ-4. This "wear rate is 50% less with CK-4" thing that they tout really seems like smoke and mirrors marketing. While I am not in fear of CK-4, what it claims to be seems to be a big yawn. When it comes down to it, the new spec is primarily targeting emission component life. And since my Detroit does not have EGR, SCR, DPF components, only the engine itself is in play, and in that regard, CK-4 is a joke in terms of the marketing hoopla it was given by the blenders.


Freedom is not about having the choice to do what you want, but the choice to do what you ought.
Re: CK-4 fear and their ad packs significance.... [Re: Invasivore] #4630336
01/10/18 12:18 PM
01/10/18 12:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,839
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,839
Kalifornia Kollective
Understood, but what you are showing in a non-smog engine is that it's at least no worse smile


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: CK-4 fear and their ad packs significance.... [Re: Invasivore] #4630357
01/10/18 12:27 PM
01/10/18 12:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,874
Upper Midwest
kschachn Online content
kschachn  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,874
Upper Midwest
Plus I can't really guess what in the UOA you'd look at to indicate relative performance between the two standards. There would be no statistical correlation whatsoever, good luck determining a 50% wear reduction via some particular parameter. The claim might be valid but you aren't going to see it there.


1994 BMW 530i, 228K
1996 Honda Accord, 263K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 400K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 271K
Re: CK-4 fear and their ad packs significance.... [Re: Invasivore] #4630602
01/10/18 03:39 PM
01/10/18 03:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,819
Idaho
CT8 Online content
CT8  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,819
Idaho
%0% less wear sounds as good as no oil is too thin at start up.


"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."
Geoff Metcalf
Re: CK-4 fear and their ad packs significance.... [Re: TiredTrucker] #4630806
01/10/18 07:56 PM
01/10/18 07:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,355
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,355
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
When it comes down to it, the new spec is primarily targeting emission component life.

Nothing there really changed. Phosphorus and SAPS limits remained the same. The only ones that got targetted technically were those claiming CK-4/SN in the so-called ILSAC grades. A 15w-40, even in CK-4/SN, didn't have to adjust phosphorus or SAPS in general.

Some reduced phosphorus, because of the grades they chose, but some already had done that when they elected to blend a product to ACEA E6, for instance, which reduced phosphorus on its own.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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