Castrol Edge 0W-40 - 12k kms - Volvo XC70 3.2

[jadnhm]

Thanks again for your excellent guidance zeng.

I was wondering to myself why there was no moly in this Castrol Edge oil, and understand now that the Castrol Edge line is mainly focussed around the newer titanium additives. I found this video from Kendall explaining some of the reasoning/testing (/marketing [censored]) around using titanium rather than other additives:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7Qp86AxQIU&feature=youtu.be

If their testing correlates with the Castrol oil I've used, I would expect decent wear protection during cold starts... maybe moly is better? But it seems like the point is that the Ti compound is supposed to provide the same type of microscopic wear protection.

This of course says nothing about anti-corrosion, which as you've pointed out could be a big problem for me.

 

[Popsy]

There's also oils without moly nor titanium, but with boron (and probably other stuffs that we can't see on a UOA), like the Total or Motul oils in my sig

I had a spotless UOA with Petronas Syntium 7000, but that was a short winter/spring run, with minimal temps around -3°C at the lowest, and not many short trips.

Regarding your UOA, apart from iron, everything is normal. So maybe just trying another oil will give better results, some engines do better on some oils, etc. The Castrol 0W40 is on the thin side for a 40. What other 0W40 can you get easily, at a decent price?

Some moly additive may help in sticking a bit more to some parts at the top end, if iron wear is coming from there...but after all I'd say just pick a 0W40 with moly, and do another UOA after 10000Km to evaluate.

Also we haven't talk about oil filter, I don't know what type you have on your engine, but if it's a spin-on, a filter with a failing adbv can cause slightly more wear at startup (from the top end), especially when it's cold.

 

[bigt61]

200k motor going through Canadian winter? 51 PPM iron is nothing. I wouldn't change a thing - stick with your 12k OCI, just keep it topped off.

 

[jadnhm]

Quote:
Regarding your UOA, apart from iron, everything is normal. So maybe just trying another oil will give better results, some engines do better on some oils, etc. The Castrol 0W40 is on the thin side for a 40. What other 0W40 can you get easily, at a decent price?

The Castrol Edge is the best in terms of availability and price, but there are a couple of other alternatives that aren't too bad.

Rotella T6 5W-40 is pretty easy to find, and goes on sale sometimes for a reasonable price (~$9/l CAD)

The local Walmart has Mobil 1 0W-40 European Formula for $11.30/l CAD which I guess is probably do-able.

The same thing (M1 0W-40) is available from amazon.ca for $13/l CAD.

Liquimoly Synthoil Energy 0W-40 is available from amazon.ca for ~$14/l CAD.

Amazon also has this Amalie stuff I've never heard of: https://www.amazon.ca/Amalie-160-65776-5...;keywords=0w-40

Amsoil is also available of course, for about $12.50/l CAD (I think).


Quote:
Some moly additive may help in sticking a bit more to some parts at the top end, if iron wear is coming from there...but after all I'd say just pick a 0W40 with moly, and do another UOA after 10000Km to evaluate.

I can get Ceratec and other Liquidly additives on amazon, and possibly at the local NAPA. Any others to consider?


Quote:
Also we haven't talk about oil filter, I don't know what type you have on your engine, but if it's a spin-on, a filter with a failing adbv can cause slightly more wear at startup (from the top end), especially when it's cold.

This car does not have a spin-on filter, but a 'cartridge element' type. As I said earlier the filter I used for this oil change was a Fram Extra Guard, but will in future be using an OEM/Mann filter. I don't know if the iron particles in question are large enough to be caught by a filter or not.

Thanks again for all your input here. I have had a couple of Volvo's modern engines apart and they have been in awesome shape, so hopefully this high iron is not emblematic of a real problem.

 

[jadnhm]

Originally Posted By: bigt61
200k motor going through Canadian winter? 51 PPM iron is nothing. I wouldn't change a thing - stick with your 12k OCI, just keep it topped off.

That's an interesting perspective bigt61. I hadn't considered that - I always just assumed there was a way around this wear by finding the right lubricant. Do you know of a UOA on here that shows this effect you're describing, where cold climate highish-mileage* engine just spits out a lot of iron?


*remember the mileage is listed in kms, not miles. So 277k kms = 172k miles

 

[jadnhm]

I stopped by my local NAPA and found they have a couple of the Liquimoly products there. I will probably use their Jectron fuel system cleaner and they also have their MoS2 oil additive. I could use that to boost any oil I do go with, including the Castrol Edge or anything else. It was $14 CAD so that's a pretty decent price actually.

They didn't have much in the way of internal engine cleaning products - a Kleen-flo product that said it was for cleaning 'valves and lifters', Seafoam of course, and a CRC engine treatment that looked like it was basically the same as Seafoam.

If I did decided to do a flush/clean product (I haven't decided that's what I want) I think the common advice on this board is to go with Kreen or Auto-rx, yes?

 

[Sam_Julier]

The Volvo 3.2L straight 6 requires 8 qts for an oil change. Despite the coolant exchange oil cooler the oil runs on the cool side by design. When out grocery getting in the summer the oil will barely make it to 190F. In January I'll bet it doesn't see 170F. Low oil temps are a common issue in Volvo White Blocks and the 3.2 six which is made by Ford in Birmingham England.

IMO you do not need boutique oils such Redline or Motul. I would run Petro-Canada 0W30 (Supreme or Duron) or Mobil Delvac Elite 222 0W30. Both are readily available.

I would shorten the OCI to 6,000 km, particularly in the winter or when the bulk of driving is short trips.

My recommendation is based on comments in Swedspeed and VolvoXC forums, and discussions with local dealers and an Indy shop. Feel free to PM me if you would like.

Sam

 

[jadnhm]

Thanks for this excellent and specific replay Sam_Juller.

Quote:
IMO you do not need boutique oils such Redline or Motul.

I have been trying to avoid these, as you say, "boutique" brands. Their availability locally is essentially zero. I have never seen a Motul product, though I have seen a few Redline bottles (though I can't recall exactly where...). The situation with respect to shipping in Canada is very different than in the US or Europe - shipping is expensive! And the Canadian customs folks have adopted a very strict duty system which means shipping across the border from the US involves expensive shipping fees, a fairly steep duty on anything over about $20 CAD, a brokerage fee imposed by the shipping agency, and then applicable taxes (13% in my province). Not the ideal way to buy anything, let alone something that is pretty dense/heavy like engine oil.

I am checking out the Mobil Delvac and Petro-Canada products now and trying to find the locations of the lubricants distributors in my area (Moncton, NB). The common criticism of the Castrol Edge I was using is that it's 'not a real synthetic' hydrocrack/group III. Are either/both of these a group III base or are they better?

If I were to shorten the OCI to 6k kms, would a conventional not be able to handle it? The reason I wanted to use a 'nice' oil (synthetic, whiz-bang titanium add pack, now considering a moly add pack, etc) and pay more money was to protect me for a good long OCI (not crazy long but the manual does say 12k) and only have to do it less often....

As an additional point I hadn't considered until now, should I maybe be more concerned about a block heater or an oil sump heater pad? It seems like that would help a lot for the first start of the morning when it's been cold-soaking all night.

Quote:
My recommendation is based on comments in Swedspeed and VolvoXC forums, and discussions with local dealers and an Indy shop.

Can you provide some links to the forum threads you've seen discussing oils, etc? I've been a member of both forums a long time but haven't had my antennae up for this stuff, and have actually never noticed any discussions along these lines. I would love to see other UOAs from this engine, for example.

I may PM you in the future, Sam.

Thanks again.

 

[4WD]

You will note some experienced folks on this site don't like these "wide spread" oils. VII etc. if you do decide to cut back on OCI - then consider a winter and summer oil - and see if your UOA likes the summer choice ... (Narrow spread)
I'm speaking relative comparison at a lower price point.
If willing to spend more - Garak runs the high end Delvac 1 successfully up north ...

 

[jadnhm]

Quote:
You will note some experienced folks on this site don't like these "wide spread" oils. VII etc. if you do decide to cut back on OCI - then consider a winter and summer oil - and see if your UOA likes the summer choice ... (Narrow spread)


Thanks for the reply 4WD. You're suggesting I maybe use a winter oil like 0W-30/5W-30, and maybe something like a 5W-30 or 10W-30 (5W-40? 10W-40?) in the summer? Perhaps a hydrocrack synthetic in the winter and a conventional in the summer?

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: jadnhm
The Castrol Edge is the best in terms of availability and price, but there are a couple of other alternatives that aren't too bad.

Rotella T6 5W-40 is pretty easy to find, and goes on sale sometimes for a reasonable price (~$9/l CAD)

The local Walmart has Mobil 1 0W-40 European Formula for $11.30/l CAD which I guess is probably do-able.

The same thing (M1 0W-40) is available from amazon.ca for $13/l CAD.

Liquimoly Synthoil Energy 0W-40 is available from amazon.ca for ~$14/l CAD.

Amazon also has this Amalie stuff I've never heard of: https://www.amazon.ca/Amalie-160-65776-5...;keywords=0w-40
Amsoil is also available of course, for about $12.50/l CAD (I think).


I'm inclined to recommend you M1 0W40 for its 70ish ppm Moly and 200ish ppm Boron which possibly may deal better with operation-related corossion wear encountered.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: Sam_Julier
The Volvo 3.2L straight 6 requires 8 qts for an oil change. Despite the coolant exchange oil cooler the oil runs on the cool side by design. When out grocery getting in the summer the oil will barely make it to 190F. In January I'll bet it doesn't see 170F. Low oil temps are a common issue in Volvo White Blocks and the 3.2 six which is made by Ford in Birmingham England.


This may be another major contribution to higher than normal corrosion wear encountered by OP , I guess.

 

[Sam_Julier]

Originally Posted By: jadnhm
Thanks for this excellent and specific replay Sam_Juller.

Quote:
IMO you do not need boutique oils such Redline or Motul.

I have been trying to avoid these, as you say, "boutique" brands. Their availability locally is essentially zero. I have never seen a Motul product, though I have seen a few Redline bottles (though I can't recall exactly where...). The situation with respect to shipping in Canada is very different than in the US or Europe - shipping is expensive! And the Canadian customs folks have adopted a very strict duty system which means shipping across the border from the US involves expensive shipping fees, a fairly steep duty on anything over about $20 CAD, a brokerage fee imposed by the shipping agency, and then applicable taxes (13% in my province). Not the ideal way to buy anything, let alone something that is pretty dense/heavy like engine oil.

I am checking out the Mobil Delvac and Petro-Canada products now and trying to find the locations of the lubricants distributors in my area (Moncton, NB). The common criticism of the Castrol Edge I was using is that it's 'not a real synthetic' hydrocrack/group III. Are either/both of these a group III base or are they better?

If I were to shorten the OCI to 6k kms, would a conventional not be able to handle it? The reason I wanted to use a 'nice' oil (synthetic, whiz-bang titanium add pack, now considering a moly add pack, etc) and pay more money was to protect me for a good long OCI (not crazy long but the manual does say 12k) and only have to do it less often....

As an additional point I hadn't considered until now, should I maybe be more concerned about a block heater or an oil sump heater pad? It seems like that would help a lot for the first start of the morning when it's been cold-soaking all night.

Quote:
My recommendation is based on comments in Swedspeed and VolvoXC forums, and discussions with local dealers and an Indy shop.

Can you provide some links to the forum threads you've seen discussing oils, etc? I've been a member of both forums a long time but haven't had my antennae up for this stuff, and have actually never noticed any discussions along these lines. I would love to see other UOAs from this engine, for example.

I may PM you in the future, Sam.

Thanks again.


Feel free to PM at any time. Sam

 

[jadnhm]

I recently had a fuel system issue, and replaced both the fuel pump and the fuel rail pressure sensor. At least for a while it appeared that the fuel pressure sensor was reading very low (vs reality) and the engine was getting way too much fuel. It's possible there has been a fuel contamination issue in this car all along. I'll be having this oil tested at Blackstone, so I'll report back when I have results.

I also did a bunch of 'work' on this issue this summer. The car received many fuel system treatments (Gumout with PEA and STP multi-system treatment - like seafoam, almost constant use of small dose of 2-stroke oil in fuel) along with some engine flushes (1/2 Bottle motor medic just before drain, twice, and another very short OCI with conv oil and STP multi-system at drain time). I also installed a magnetic drain plug - I don't understand why manufacturer's don't just do this by default.

 

[Pajero]

You may want to try Mobil 1 0W40. Has nice Calcium, Moly, and Boron et al. Delvac is a great oil. Good luck. Remember to look at the big picture and trending UOAs. I thought the States had free trade with Canada, (NAFTA)?



Respectfully,

Pajero!

 

[jadnhm]

Thanks for the advice!

You'd be surprised how expensive 'free trade' is haha

I currently have a Mobil 1 Synthetic High Mileage oil in there for this over-the-winter longer drain interval. It's the first 'synthetic' high mileage oil I've seen locally.

 

[jadnhm]

I had another sample tested:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...w-40-8000-kms-volvo-xc70-3-2#Post4846345