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Honda OEM filters #4622494
01/03/18 08:48 AM
01/03/18 08:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4
Massachusetts
jhass Offline OP
jhass  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4
Massachusetts
New member here, and first post.

I've combed through previous threads, trying to find information on this topic - apologies in advance if it has already been discussed "to death."

I've read on BITOG that Honda OEM filters have fairly low efficiency, and the consensus *appears* to be that this is deliberate, in order to provide a high rate of oil flow. Does anybody know if this is actually the case? Thanks.


Last edited by jhass; 01/03/18 08:49 AM.
Re: Honda OEM filters [Re: jhass] #4622498
01/03/18 08:53 AM
01/03/18 08:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,076
Occupied Virginia
Bottom_Feeder Offline
Bottom_Feeder  Offline
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,076
Occupied Virginia
I thought that was Toyota's filters?

I hope not because I just bought a five pack of Filtech A01's from Amazon. frown

Re: Honda OEM filters [Re: jhass] #4622520
01/03/18 09:38 AM
01/03/18 09:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4
Massachusetts
jhass Offline OP
jhass  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4
Massachusetts
Here is one example of the information I've seen:


Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: gregk24
does anyone know the figures for filtration and flow on the honda a01 and a02 filters???


According to Fram, who makes the A02 filter, efficiency is 65% because that is what Honda wants. With that kind of low efficiency it would be reasonable to expect flow is very high. Toyota OEM's are spec'd at about 50% efficiency, clearly they are doing this on purpose I don't know if its for flow reasons, weak oil pumps or what but it is intentional.


I don't know what the A01 is but I imagine it's similar since it's Honda spec.

The Ultra will be 99% efficient but will still flow very well due to being synthetic.

As I mentioned before both are very high flowing filters and I'd be a lot more concerned about ADBV's than flow if I was having start up noise.


65%!! thats crazy...how is that even safe to put on your car? so it lets 35% of dirt and particles by?
_________________________
2012 Honda Accord EX-L K24z3
50,xxx miles
PPPP 0w20 / Fram Ultra

2014 VW Jetta SE 1.8T ea888
30,xxx miles
Castrol Edge 0w40 / OEM filter

Re: Honda OEM filters [Re: jhass] #4622521
01/03/18 09:38 AM
01/03/18 09:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,021
TX
robertcope Offline
robertcope  Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,021
TX
Subscribed out of curiosity. I only run Honda filters on my S2000 and NSX; no reason to second guess Honda on these cars!

Re: Honda OEM filters [Re: jhass] #4622525
01/03/18 09:45 AM
01/03/18 09:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,076
Occupied Virginia
Bottom_Feeder Offline
Bottom_Feeder  Offline
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,076
Occupied Virginia
Originally Posted By: jhass
65%!! thats crazy...how is that even safe to put on your car? so it lets 35% of dirt and particles by?

Well it depends on the particle size of course. 20 microns is generally the standard size we go by. I can't imagine they are only 65% and 50% efficient at 20 microns. That's a gravel screen.

Re: Honda OEM filters [Re: robertcope] #4622528
01/03/18 09:49 AM
01/03/18 09:49 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,578
wv
krismoriah72 Offline
krismoriah72  Offline
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,578
wv
Ive seen alot of Honda UOAs over the years in here.. I have yet to see one that said wear metals were low because of a certain oil filter.

I dont see the sense in driving to a dealer or ordering an oil filter online when there are Wix/Fram alternatives at brick and mortars.

Re: Honda OEM filters [Re: krismoriah72] #4622533
01/03/18 09:52 AM
01/03/18 09:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4
Massachusetts
jhass Offline OP
jhass  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4
Massachusetts
Any reason to think that Honda OEM filters have a higher oil flow rate than aftermarket brands?

Re: Honda OEM filters [Re: jhass] #4622540
01/03/18 10:03 AM
01/03/18 10:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,076
Occupied Virginia
Bottom_Feeder Offline
Bottom_Feeder  Offline
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,076
Occupied Virginia
Whatever the flow rate is, it's good enough. The oil filter is not the bottleneck of an engine's oiling system.

Re: Honda OEM filters [Re: Bottom_Feeder] #4622541
01/03/18 10:04 AM
01/03/18 10:04 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,398
Storrs, Connecticut
jeepman3071 Offline
jeepman3071  Offline
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,398
Storrs, Connecticut
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Whatever the flow rate is, it's good enough. The oil filter is not the bottleneck of an engine's oiling system.


+1

I've known plenty of Hondas that have 200k+ on dealer oil changes which they usually recommend changing the filter every other OCI.


2000 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L (180k) - Pennzoil 10w30, Napa Gold 1516, Magnefine trans filter
2009 BMW 328i (33k) - Castrol Edge Euro 0w40, MANN HU816X
Re: Honda OEM filters [Re: jhass] #4622550
01/03/18 10:21 AM
01/03/18 10:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,779
.
Danh Offline
Danh  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,779
.
Isn't efficiency based on a single pass? In other words, in a filter is 65% efficient at 25 microns, a 25 micron particle has a 65% chance of being captured on the first pass. So if there were 100 such particles, 65 would be captured on the first pass, of the remaining 35, 23 would be captured on the second, of the remaining 12, 8 would be captured on the third pass and so on?

While having particles float around isn't a good thing, 65% efficiency doesn't mean 35% of particles are there forever: their uncaptured lifespan would be very short.

Re: Honda OEM filters [Re: jhass] #4622551
01/03/18 10:22 AM
01/03/18 10:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,816
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,816
Idaho
The most important thing an oil filter can do is not fail.


"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."
Geoff Metcalf
Re: Honda OEM filters [Re: jeepman3071] #4622553
01/03/18 10:25 AM
01/03/18 10:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,779
.
Danh Offline
Danh  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,779
.
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Whatever the flow rate is, it's good enough. The oil filter is not the bottleneck of an engine's oiling system.


+1

I've known plenty of Hondas that have 200k+ on dealer oil changes which they usually recommend changing the filter every other OCI.


Filters do get more efficient, with use, and the every other OCI filter change routine does cut the number of "dry" starts an engine endure by half. Reduces cost and waste, too and allows a "topside" oil change with a fluid extractor. I'm a believer.

Re: Honda OEM filters [Re: jhass] #4622555
01/03/18 10:27 AM
01/03/18 10:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,816
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,816
Idaho
Originally Posted By: jhass
Here is one example of the information I've seen:


Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: gregk24
does anyone know the figures for filtration and flow on the honda a01 and a02 filters???


According to Fram, who makes the A02 filter, efficiency is 65% because that is what Honda wants. With that kind of low efficiency it would be reasonable to expect flow is very high. Toyota OEM's are spec'd at about 50% efficiency, clearly they are doing this on purpose I don't know if its for flow reasons, weak oil pumps or what but it is intentional.


I don't know what the A01 is but I imagine it's similar since it's Honda spec.

The Ultra will be 99% efficient but will still flow very well due to being synthetic.

As I mentioned before both are very high flowing filters and I'd be a lot more concerned about ADBV's than flow if I was having start up noise.


65%!! thats crazy...how is that even safe to put on your car? so it lets 35% of dirt and particles by?
_________________________
2012 Honda Accord EX-L K24z3
50,xxx miles
PPPP 0w20 / Fram Ultra

2014 VW Jetta SE 1.8T ea888
30,xxx miles
Castrol Edge 0w40 / OEM filter
Why do Hondas last as long running oem oil filters and conventional oil as they do running top dollar syn oil and oil filters?


"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."
Geoff Metcalf
Re: Honda OEM filters [Re: Danh] #4622556
01/03/18 10:32 AM
01/03/18 10:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 839
CA, USA
paulri Offline
paulri  Offline
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 839
CA, USA
There are both single pass and multipass tests out there. I believe now, the multipass test (or one of them, at any rate) is most common, but that doesn't mean that all efficiency ratings are multipass.

Your comment brings up something I have wondered at--at what point in the OCI are these multipass tests simulating? Does multipass mean "five trips through the filter, one right after another" or does it mean "we took measurements at separate points in time, the last one a hundred hours after the first time"?



Originally Posted By: Danh
Isn't efficiency based on a single pass? In other words, in a filter is 65% efficient at 25 microns, a 25 micron particle has a 65% chance of being captured on the first pass. So if there were 100 such particles, 65 would be captured on the first pass, of the remaining 35, 23 would be captured on the second, of the remaining 12, 8 would be captured on the third pass and so on?

While having particles float around isn't a good thing, 65% efficiency doesn't mean 35% of particles are there forever: their uncaptured lifespan would be very short.


2005 Toyota Sienna LE; 156,000 miles
1998 Honda Civic DX; 202,000 miles
Re: Honda OEM filters [Re: jhass] #4622558
01/03/18 10:37 AM
01/03/18 10:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,038
california
goodtimes Offline
goodtimes  Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,038
california
The oil flow to the engine is determined by the oil pump, and if the oil pump goes into relief mode or not. In a normal situation where the filter is not clogged and the bypass valve is large enough, the filter type isn't an issue. The notion Toyota and Honda specified low efficiency for flow is a myth told here over and over, and over. Eventually it gets believed. You can read here where others say the same thing about flow.

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