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Winter tires on dry pavement #4621724
01/02/18 01:33 PM
01/02/18 01:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 546
North Carolina
WANG Offline OP
WANG  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 546
North Carolina



I'll just leave this here... popcorn2


"Sportbikes have evolved from an axe into a scalpel.
Problem is, the average sportbike buyer is more lumberjack than surgeon." -Richard Pollock
Re: Winter tires on dry pavement [Re: WANG] #4621738
01/02/18 01:38 PM
01/02/18 01:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 951
PA,US
HemiHawk Offline
HemiHawk  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 951
PA,US
I have to say I was at least a little surprised at the results watching this. I like alot of this guys videos. In my experience summer performance tires absolutely lose traction below say 45 degrees. In my Mustang on extremely cold days the rear end would spin like it was on ice and the tires were rock hard. I guess I never really needed to panic brake to test braking distances... part of me wonders if his summer tires were somewhat warm from driving to where he tested them. I have also driven front wheel drive cars with summer tires in freezing temps and hard cornering is not really possible then either. Not saying his results aren't valid but I was surprised is all.

Last edited by HemiHawk; 01/02/18 01:39 PM.

2016 Nissan Frontier Pro4x
2017 VW GTI sport
1995 Mustang GTS
Re: Winter tires on dry pavement [Re: WANG] #4621757
01/02/18 02:07 PM
01/02/18 02:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,194
Ontario, Canada
IndyIan Offline
IndyIan  Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,194
Ontario, Canada
I got caught with my newish BFG sport Comp2's in 0C wet weather and they worked pretty well really. I pushed them a little bit and while they certainly had less traction than when warm, they still weren't unsafe.
On clean dry pavement, siping and lots of tread depth is a liability that even the softer winter rubber compound can't overcome. I suspect if you shaved the winter tires just above the depth of the winter rubber, they would be closer to the summer tires, but new winter tires with lots of sharp corners to wear off, aren't going to do well on pavement.
A major issue is that some performance tires actually crack in moderate cold like -7C. So running performance rubber in my area even into November isn't a good idea as the odd night can hit that temperature.


07 Focus ZXW, 5spd manual, 210km M1 5W30
18 Outback 2.5 CVT 10km 0W20 "bulk subaru" whatever that is
Re: Winter tires on dry pavement [Re: HemiHawk] #4621768
01/02/18 02:19 PM
01/02/18 02:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 546
North Carolina
WANG Offline OP
WANG  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 546
North Carolina
Originally Posted By: HemiHawk
I have to say I was at least a little surprised at the results watching this. I like alot of this guys videos. In my experience summer performance tires absolutely lose traction below say 45 degrees. In my Mustang on extremely cold days the rear end would spin like it was on ice and the tires were rock hard. I guess I never really needed to panic brake to test braking distances... part of me wonders if his summer tires were somewhat warm from driving to where he tested them. I have also driven front wheel drive cars with summer tires in freezing temps and hard cornering is not really possible then either. Not saying his results aren't valid but I was surprised is all.


My experience is pretty consistent with HemiHawk's, so I was surprised by the results as well. For my area, I think that summers and all-seasons ("no seasons" lol) would probably be the ideal setup. It absolutely gets too cold for summer tires, but winter tires would not make a lot of sense, either.

Re: Winter tires on dry pavement [Re: HemiHawk] #4621781
01/02/18 02:32 PM
01/02/18 02:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,090
British Columbia, Canada
ecotourist Offline
ecotourist  Offline
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,090
British Columbia, Canada
I'm a bit surprised too.

Some winter tires are better than others on dry pavement. As that was by far my most common driving condition I bought Dunlops that (at that time anyway) were the top performers on dry pavement. I likely sacrificed a bit of ice and snow handling capacity. I didn't notice much difference going from summer tires to winter tires (typically on a cold winter day) but I did notice that the summer tires handled better and made less road noise (typically on a warmer spring day). I tended to push my (all season high performance) summer tires as far as possible into the winter but was a bit slower to change in the spring.

One other point is that his summer tires were a bit worn and his winter tires were almost new (except for 1 day's wear). Presumably worn tires are similar to shaved tires and shaved tires have better performance on dry pavement. Note that I'm not advocating shaving winter tires to optimize dry pavement performance; I expect that lots of tread would have an advantage in snow.


2000 BMW 528i 5MT
2007 Honda Accord EX-L 4Door V6 6MT
Re: Winter tires on dry pavement [Re: WANG] #4621784
01/02/18 02:35 PM
01/02/18 02:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 466
Ohio
jjjxlr8 Offline
jjjxlr8  Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 466
Ohio
At cold temperatures, the difference between a summer UHP and a winter tire will be much more substantial when there is WET pavement.


1993 Toyota MR2 Turbo
2008 Mazdaspeed3
2014 Toyota Highlander XLE
Re: Winter tires on dry pavement [Re: WANG] #4621803
01/02/18 02:54 PM
01/02/18 02:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 867
MA USA
andrewp1998 Offline
andrewp1998  Offline
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 867
MA USA
My Mich xice are like night and day on snow or slush compared to all seasons


2001 Honda civic HX vtecE- 5 spd,232k+
Re: Winter tires on dry pavement [Re: andrewp1998] #4621818
01/02/18 03:09 PM
01/02/18 03:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 546
North Carolina
WANG Offline OP
WANG  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 546
North Carolina
Originally Posted By: andrewp1998
My Mich xice are like night and day on snow or slush compared to all seasons


They really wouldn't have a reason to exist if they weren't any better than all seasons in winter conditions, would they? wink


"Sportbikes have evolved from an axe into a scalpel.
Problem is, the average sportbike buyer is more lumberjack than surgeon." -Richard Pollock
Re: Winter tires on dry pavement [Re: WANG] #4621843
01/02/18 03:46 PM
01/02/18 03:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 394
MA, USA
krzyss Offline
krzyss  Offline
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 394
MA, USA
Is it mentioned what winter tires were tested?

Krzys

Re: Winter tires on dry pavement [Re: krzyss] #4621863
01/02/18 04:03 PM
01/02/18 04:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,837
USA
slacktide_bitog Offline
slacktide_bitog  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,837
USA
He should've tested performance winter tires like the Pilot Alpin or Pirelli Sottozero

Originally Posted By: krzyss
Is it mentioned what winter tires were tested?

Krzys
In the description listed on the actual YT page (t get there, click the word YouTube in the video) he says the winter tires are the Xi3, and the summer tires are the Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R smile

Re: Winter tires on dry pavement [Re: WANG] #4621898
01/02/18 04:38 PM
01/02/18 04:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 394
MA, USA
krzyss Offline
krzyss  Offline
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 394
MA, USA
He picked wrong winter tires to test on dry ;-)
I wonder what would be the numbers for performance winter tires.

I have Xi3 and they are not confidence inspiring in dry or wet when driven spirtedly.
They are very nice in ice and snow and during regular driving.

Krzys

Re: Winter tires on dry pavement [Re: WANG] #4621923
01/02/18 05:00 PM
01/02/18 05:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 429
New England
555 Offline
555  Offline
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 429
New England
I appreciate the effort.
Watched the video until the end when he mentions that the winter tires were narrower by 2cm on the rear. That's too much of a difference along with the change in sidewall height(aspect ratio) on a well balanced vehicle(front to rear) to determine an accurate difference between summer and snow tires.


84 XJ6 M1
92 Mustang 5.0 Redline
99 Tahoe 2 door Castrol Edge
99 MX5 Miata Anniversary Edition M1
04 Subaru STi Motul
Re: Winter tires on dry pavement [Re: WANG] #4621930
01/02/18 05:08 PM
01/02/18 05:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
The Midwest
skyactiv Offline
skyactiv  Offline
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
The Midwest
I have a crackpot theory.

Braking generates a lot of friction, more so than going around a corner. You want hard tread blocks for straight line braking hot or cold.
But you want the tread surface to be just soft to provide enough grip regardless of the temperature.
While the summer tires might feel slippery during hard cornering on a cold road, the tread surface heats up very quick
during a very quick stop as the tread surface heats up near instantly to provide maximum grip.
The winter tires are too soft on cold dry pavement during max brake applications and lose friction, plus the flexible tread blocks
and less surface area equates for a longer stopping distance.


Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 13' VW GTI 3 door 6 speed manual
Re: Winter tires on dry pavement [Re: WANG] #4622290
01/02/18 11:06 PM
01/02/18 11:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,857
MTL, CANADA
Rolla07 Offline
Rolla07  Offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,857
MTL, CANADA
Results dont surprise me, but im more concerned about stopping on ice, snow or slush. If you dont get snow or ice, u have a good argument. I can deal with longer dry stopping distances since I dont drive all that fast anyways.


2007 Corolla Red Pearl 155k miles
PP 0w20 & ST 4967

Re: Winter tires on dry pavement [Re: WANG] #4622301
01/02/18 11:20 PM
01/02/18 11:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,438
New Mexico, USA
jimbrewer Offline
jimbrewer  Offline
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,438
New Mexico, USA
Originally Posted By: WANG
Originally Posted By: andrewp1998
My Mich xice are like night and day on snow or slush compared to all seasons


They really wouldn't have a reason to exist if they weren't any better than all seasons in winter conditions, would they? wink


The difference is really dramatic though. They supposedly had some kind of technological breakthrough in the early 90s. I can believe it, because the Blizzaks are better than the studded tires I had in the 1980s.

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