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Vitamin K2 - heard of it ? #4620863
01/01/18 05:55 PM
01/01/18 05:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,524
'Stralia
Shannow Online content OP
Shannow  Online Content OP

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,524
'Stralia
K1 - that's the blood clotting one from vegetables, particularly green leafy ones...tat's not it.

Local library (was) amazing back in the day...had everything from Alistair Crowley, Puthoff and Targ, Every issue of the British "Motor Magazine"...
...and one that I read by Weston Price.

Long story short...retired dentist who wanted to understand why pinched faces and overcrowded mouths were the "norm"...so he went out and had a look at traditional people's and their diets, and importantly their facial structure and dentition.

Findings were typically that traditional people, traditional diets (more akin to hunter gatherer's) had good solid facial structures, uncrowded, full mouths, and strong healthy teeth.

Surprisingly, families moving to western diets (moved to reservations, loss of hunting/fishing grounds etc.), the children from exactly the same parents, but the new diet showed the western facial structures and dentition problems...same genese, different environment...



He found that their diet had lots of B and C vitamins, and lots of fat soluble A and D (there's those two again), but also had something that he couldn't identify, which he called "Activator X"...which appeared to be be found in organ meats, some cheeses, egg yolks, offal in general.

Recently, "activator X" has been found to be Vitamin K2...very differnt to K1.

K2 appears to be necessary for the body to use Calcium properly...put it into the skeleton and teeth rather than lining arteries with it.

Eggs, gouda cheese, duck livers are good sources. Natto is probably one of the best, but not my thing.

Again, the things that "modern" medicine has been telling us to avoid while osteoporosis, calcified arteries and the like are all part of being alive in western world.

Not evangalising...it's just a common sense thing that I've been monitoring from the fringes for the last 20+ years.

My mother was being managed for Cholesterol and Beginner's osteoporosis about 2 years ago, and I brought this one to her attention...nothing crazy, just a few poached eggs for her light evening meal 3-4 times a week, and some grilled cheese on toast for lunch similarly.

December she had a full range of tests (chest pain that turned out to be excessive shovel use in the garden)...they did the ultrasound on her heart and arteries...zip, zilch, nada...the doctor was impressed at no calcification at 71, and has dropped the statins provided she eats oats most breakfasts. Bone density is back in normal range...Mum is drug free again.

BTW, the most common source of K2 in US is hot dogs...it's got all the bits that these people would eat first.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4566462/
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topi...rrows-children/

Re: Vitamin K2 - heard of it ? [Re: Shannow] #4620891
01/01/18 06:21 PM
01/01/18 06:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,074
New Zealand
Silk Offline
Silk  Offline

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,074
New Zealand
Many years ago I read a book called Diet and Nutrition by Rudolph Ballentine, still have it. He was looking at diets in more primitive cultures, and very interesting how much they got right that modern diets don't get right at all. Protein for one, in these cultures they don't eat much meat, their animals supply their other needs...like how as a kid we never ate chicken, our chooks were for eggs, not meat. They got full protein from mixing proteins, so rice and dahl, pita bread and fallafal, taco...maize and beans, peanut butter sandwich etc. Cultures that should be low in minerals weren't, because when they ground them, minerals came from the motar and pestal...etc.

The western diet is the worst diet in the world.


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Re: Vitamin K2 - heard of it ? [Re: Shannow] #4620900
01/01/18 06:27 PM
01/01/18 06:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline
OneEyeJack  Offline

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
Taking calcium supplements or eating dairy products for calcium is less than useful. It doesn't work. Never has, never will.

Healthcare and nutrition long ago parted company. Instead of living a healthy active lifestyle you are often encouraged to take a pill and told that everything will be okay. If things get worse there are more pills. There are lists of symptoms, tests, and graphs to guide your doctor to make sure you get all the correct pills. Once the symptoms are smoothed over you're all done, pronounced healthy and ready to face life.

Re: Vitamin K2 - heard of it ? [Re: Shannow] #4620920
01/01/18 06:38 PM
01/01/18 06:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 433
NJ
JLawrence08648 Offline
JLawrence08648  Offline

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 433
NJ
Newest about taking calcium, women should, men should not. I'm taking vitamin K because my doctor told me I should because of low calcium and something else.

I take one during the summer and two during the winter. She feels my buddy is not producing enough vitamin K thigh during the summer I may be outside all day.

Last edited by JLawrence08648; 01/01/18 06:40 PM.
Re: Vitamin K2 - heard of it ? [Re: OneEyeJack] #4620925
01/01/18 06:40 PM
01/01/18 06:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 639
Nebraska
BJD78 Offline
BJD78  Offline

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 639
Nebraska
My Mom had weak bones and low calcium levels and her doc told her to take Tums, she did for a year or so with no improvement on bone density tests. Her doctor moved and and she was assigned to a PA and she said that Tums have a calcium that is not absorbed very well and she prescribed her a calcuim citrate magnesium citrate supplement to take once every day at bedtime and withinn a year her bone density showed about a 30% improvememt and she had less pain. So calcium citrate works better than calcium carbonate at least that is what the PA said.


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Re: Vitamin K2 - heard of it ? [Re: Shannow] #4620940
01/01/18 06:50 PM
01/01/18 06:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,870
NEUS
Bandito440 Offline
Bandito440  Offline

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,870
NEUS
This all reeks of health woo woo.

Weston Price traveled the world making uncontrolled observations of native people, and from that tainted data, pushed his dietary beliefs as actual science. Thereís a good bit of reading on him and the foundation that bears his name at Quackwatch, Science-Based Medicine, and Rational Wiki.

The study thatís linked above appears to have been published in a journal with the dubious name of Integrative Medicine, the scope of which is all sorts of alternative medicine. That is to say, medicine that has not yet been proven to work, or has been proven not to work. This study was not a clinical trial, and since no real testing was done, Iíd be very careful about drawing conclusions from it. The author is suspiciously employed by the International Health and Science Foundation, the sole purpose of whick is to promote K2.

Science-Based Medicine has some additional reading on K2.

Also, a PSA: PubMed is just a database. The NIH has not examined the validity of studies found there.


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Re: Vitamin K2 - heard of it ? [Re: Shannow] #4621081
01/01/18 08:39 PM
01/01/18 08:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,719
Toronto
PeterPolyol Offline
PeterPolyol  Offline

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,719
Toronto
Interesting stuff about this K2. I can now differentiate it from K1 with this new info and pay attn in future, thank you Shannow.


There's no replacement...'scosity for natural viscosity
Re: Vitamin K2 - heard of it ? [Re: Shannow] #4621215
01/01/18 10:46 PM
01/01/18 10:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,459
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,459
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Eat more meat, less grain and vegetables, less sugar, but exercise like a madman. Don't worry about cholesterol or fat.

I'm convinced that this is the way to go and that any modern suggestions to eat a heart healthy diet and avoid red meat is misguided advice.

I believe our bodies are still very primitive in function and just because we are omnivores doesn't mean a vegetarian or vegan diet is somehow superior.

Re: Vitamin K2 - heard of it ? [Re: Reddy45] #4622053
01/02/18 07:19 PM
01/02/18 07:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline
OneEyeJack  Offline

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Eat more meat, less grain and vegetables, less sugar, but exercise like a madman. Don't worry about cholesterol or fat.

I'm convinced that this is the way to go and that any modern suggestions to eat a heart healthy diet and avoid red meat is misguided advice.

I believe our bodies are still very primitive in function and just because we are omnivores doesn't mean a vegetarian or vegan diet is somehow superior.



Re: Vitamin K2 - heard of it ? [Re: OneEyeJack] #4622062
01/02/18 07:27 PM
01/02/18 07:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,842
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,842
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Gladiators were also slaves.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
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Re: Vitamin K2 - heard of it ? [Re: Garak] #4622065
01/02/18 07:30 PM
01/02/18 07:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 39,130
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Online content
OVERKILL  Online Content

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 39,130
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Garak
Gladiators were also slaves.


And died incredibly young.


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Re: Vitamin K2 - heard of it ? [Re: Shannow] #4622069
01/02/18 07:32 PM
01/02/18 07:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 886
Danville, Indiana
IndyFan Offline
IndyFan  Offline

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 886
Danville, Indiana
A few years ago, I gave my Jeep some vitamin KM2. 4 round pills. It made it stronger, healthier, and more capable off road. It grew an inch, too.


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Re: Vitamin K2 - heard of it ? [Re: OVERKILL] #4622082
01/02/18 07:41 PM
01/02/18 07:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,524
'Stralia
Shannow Online content OP
Shannow  Online Content OP

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,524
'Stralia
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Garak
Gladiators were also slaves.


And died incredibly young.


Article in New Scientist years and years ago studying traditional "vegetarian" societies and the amount of insect protein (and fatty acids) that they consumed.

No refrigerators, annual grain stores, and if something is living in your food supply, can't ditch it and go to the supermarket.

The study then introduced ground meal worms at 10% into the meal that one community used to make flat bread, and health outcomes were improved across the board.

Re: Vitamin K2 - heard of it ? [Re: Reddy45] #4622325
01/02/18 11:58 PM
01/02/18 11:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,431
Dallas,Tx USA
aquariuscsm Offline
aquariuscsm  Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,431
Dallas,Tx USA
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Eat more meat, less grain and vegetables, less sugar, but exercise like a madman. Don't worry about cholesterol or fat.

I'm convinced that this is the way to go and that any modern suggestions to eat a heart healthy diet and avoid red meat is misguided advice.

I believe our bodies are still very primitive in function and just because we are omnivores doesn't mean a vegetarian or vegan diet is somehow superior.


I agree. The more red meat I eat,the better and stronger I feel. We are made to eat meat by design,that's the purpose of our incisors.


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