Different versions of Edge 0w30 (normal v a5/b5)

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Hi I bought some oil to service my BMW 330cd. I ordered Castrol Edge 0w30 A5/B5 in error.
I realized this just before I was about to refill the car. I went to the car parts place to buy the 0w30 which had BMW LL04 on the bottle.
However as I had bought the a5/B5 oil in early Dec and I didn't have time off work to do the job till after xmas I can no longer return this oil.


So I've been trying to find out the difference between Edge 0w30 and edge 0w30 A5/B5. Would this have caused catastrophic engine failure in my BMW?
I am a high mileage driver I do about 20k a year and I change the oil every 10k.
 
Originally Posted By: vase_shagger
Would this have caused catastrophic engine failure in my BMW?


Short answer - No.

Your car won't care.
 
I wouldn't. A5/B5 is a low HTHS, high SAPS oil. LL04 is a high HTHS, mid SAPS oil.

Or if you are going to run it, stick to a 10k interval and don't beat on the engine too much. My 1.5TDCI Ford Focus destroyed Castrol Edge 0w30 A5/B5 in 5000miles.

Castrol Edge 0w30 A5/B5 is a great oil for N/A petrols. Not so much turbo diesels.
 
Oils have specs for reasons. Will it cause catastrophic engine failure? No it won't, but if your car has a DPF (diesel particulate filter), the higher ash content in the full SAPS oil you bought COULD negatively affect the life of the DPF due to the higher SAP or "ash" in the oil additive package. For one oil change kept to 5000 miles vs your normal 10k miles, then you could maybe still use the oil. But for me, I would just use it to change oil on a different, more compatible engine, such as another family member or friend's car.
 
Here are the ACEA sequences
http://www.acea.be/uploads/news_documents/ACEA_European_oil_sequences_2016.pdf

That Edge A5/B5 is a good oil, but it's high-SAPS and low HTHS.
The Edge C3 is the opposite, it's low or mid-SAPS and high HTHS, it also has the BMW LL-04 spec that you require.

The zombie apocalypse hasn't hit yet, so no reason to run the wrong oil in your car just yet. Feed it the correct stuff and find a friend or relative that uses an A5/B5 oil. It's not such an expensive mistake that you can't walk away from it, and why risk a more expensive mistake by using it (unlikely as it would be to cause any significant damage).
 
Hi all,
I'm glad I erred on the side of caution after reading this stuff, although the car is a 2005 it doesn't have a DPF filter.
It's very confusing these days buying oil I bet I won't be the only one to fall foul!
I can't imagine every back street garage buying drums of every different type of 0w30 oil on the market.
 
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Originally Posted By: vase_shagger
I can't imagine every back street garage buying drums of every different type of 0w30 oil on the market.

Hi VS,

I was walking past a small back street garage the other day, with just two bays. I poked my head in to see what oil they used, they had three types, all full synthetic Castrol and all in 20 L drums

- Castrol Edge 5W30 A3/B4, high SAPS and BMW LL-01, MB 229.5, API SL (high zinc)
- Magnatec Professional 5W40 C3, mid SAPS, API SN & Dexos2
- Edge 5W30 C3, lowish-SAPS, VW 504/507, Porsche C30, MB 229.51, BMW LL-04

Or something roughly like that.
They were all full synthetics, all high HTHS (safer to go up than down) and the real choice was low-SAPS Euro / medium-SAPS American or Japanese / high SAPS Euro. This sort of makes sense to me. Sure no ILSAC oils, but who needs 'em. It seems GM Australia is happy to accept the high-HTHS Dexos2 oil instead of the more common low-HTHS Dexos1 oil.

BTW Vase-Shagger, good screen name, this site has it's potty mouth filter set to high-filter. But Aussie and English slang slip straight through.
 
Honestly, given some people's usage patterns here, a C3 would work just fine, except for the minuscule fuel economy changes. North Americans usually don't extend OCIs crazily and it's cat safe. The three variants would confuse most non-BITOGers though, or at least people who don't read carefully.
wink.gif
 
Yep given my typical OCI of 10 000 KM / 6 000 miles / 12 months or less, a C3 oil will do me fine.

Looking at the Castrol Professional series, some of which are listed above. Many of them don't even have an API rating, just Euro ACEA and OEMs. Which is all you need if you have a BMW or MB or VW etc.
 
The two on-shelf C3 versions I have seen did have the SN, so that was covered. Of course, there aren't a lot of vehicles calling for an API only 5w-30 (no ILSAC). The G37 is one of them, though, which ends up bringing Castrol's 5w-30 dexos2/C3 up when I use their lube selector. It's still a bit amusing how many sell sheets simply refer to a C3 lube as VW diesel or diesel car lube, when that isn't exactly technically accurate. If people in charge or ordering and marketing these oils would pay full attention to the specifications and viscosity on file, rather than trying to pigeonhole a certain lube as a GM car diesel lube or a VW diesel lube, a lot of confusion would be spared. I'd have no problem with such a lube, either, aside from the fact that the container sizes aren't very useful to me, with me either having to get one litre bottles or something way too large.

The number of truly solely diesel specific lubes out there is very small (the current API CK-4 only lubes don't count, as far as I'm concerned, as they haven't changed that much), and the odds of accidentally coming across a lube that has no business in a gasoline motor are pretty low, unless you're buying stock from a local ship or train yard.
 
I am curious about this thread. My car requires "SAE 0W-30 meeting Jaguar Land Rover specification STJLR.03.5007" which as far as I can tell means Castrol EDGE Professional E 0W-30 here in the USA. It seems to be the same stuff as they sell for Honda diesels in the EU and UK.

At 0.79% and C2, it is a low SAPS oil. JLR specs a 20,000 mile OCI, so this stuff must be some kind of magic sauce or else they don't care about long term reliability.

JLR is doing the oil changes every 20,000 out to 60,000, but I had it changed myself at 10,000 miles. The price of the oil alone brought tears to my eyes. Even on line in the UK it runs about 60 GBP for the 6 liters needed for an oil change. In the US it seems to be available only from a JLR dealer.

Mobil 1™ ESP X1 0W-30 is a C2 oil available in 0W-30 as well. The prices I am seeing are also quite high, but it is much more available than the Castrol seems to be. Since I do not plan on running out to 20,000 miles without UOA the Mobil might be an alternative once the warranty and service run out.

Based on my VW experience I am very comfortable running out to a 10,000 mile OCI. Double that makes me wonder. Any thoughts on the following:

1) What makes this Castrol stuff so special
2) What would be good alternative oils to try once the warranty runs out

would be appreciated.
 
What year is your Land Rover, and is that the gasser engine? Finding the actual Jaguar specs of any sort is rather hard these days, and I guess that's what makes that specific Castrol variant so special.
 
I imagine the ULSD is what makes it work. It's hard to say what other lubricant would be most suitable after warranty, but that Mobil 1 C2 product should be close. If we can find out what, if any, differences there are between C2 and the OEM spec, we'd be on our way.
wink.gif
 
Quote:
At 0.79% and C2, it is a low SAPS oil. JLR specs a 20,000 mile OCI

As an overly simple summary
- A3/B4 is high SAPS and high HTHS
- A5/B5 is high SAPS and low HTHS
- C3 is mid SAPS and high HTHS
- C2 is mid SAPS and low HTHS
- C4 is low SAPS and high HTHS
- C1 is low SAPS and low HTHS
Where the HTHS is from the base oil viscosity thickness (&VII package) and the SAPS is from the metallic addative package (SA%).

I'm using the ACEA definitions of mid-SAPS (< 0.8%) and low-SAPS (< 0.5 %) here.

If you can't find the right oil, my view is that it is OK to go up in HTHS as this is what protects the engine from wear by keeping the metal surfaces apart. This only cost of going up in HTHS is maybe a very minor increase in fuel consumption. With SAPS level, too high can badly affect the DPF in a diesel or to a lesser degree the cats in a gas (petrol) exhaust system.

So if I couldn't find a good C2 oil, I would happily use a C3 oil in my car. That is going up in HTHS (protection) but keeping the SAPS levels the same. The slight increase in viscosity would be less than the viscosity difference you would see between starting your car in summer Vs winter, shouldn't be a problem.

Now it just so happens that in my opinion the GM Dexos2 (for GM diesels & some high performance gas engines, not to be confused with Dexos1-Gen2 for gas/petrol only), the GM Dexos2 is so close to a C3 oil that I never saw the point of GM even developing Dexos2 they should just have said C3 and been done with it. But I think they wanted their own GM Dex branding.

Anyway if I had a Jag that needed a top-up in the middle of no-where. And all they had was ILSAC GF-5 & Dexos1 oil OR Dexos2 oil, then I would grab the Dexos2 without concerns, use it and sleep well at night.

BTW every Dexos2 oil I have ever seen in Australia is also a C3 oil.

BTW M1 5W30 ESP has the following specs:
Quote:
Specifications and approvals

Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 has the following builder approvals:
BMW Longlife 04
MB-Approval 229.31
MB-Approval 229.51
Volkswagen (Gasoline/Diesel) 504 00/507 00
Porsche C30
Chrysler MS-11106
Peugeot/Citroën Automobiles B71 2290/B71 2297
GM dexos 2
Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 meets or exceeds the requirements of:
ACEA C2, C3
API (Meets Engine Test Requirements) SM/SN
JASO DL-1
According to ExxonMobil, Mobil 1 Formula ESP 5W-30 is of the following quality level:
API CF
Volkswagen (Gasoline) 502 00/503 00/503 01
Volkswagen (Diesel) 505 00/506 00
Technical details

SAE Grade 5W-30
Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)
@ 40ºC 72.8
@ 100ºC 12.1
Viscosity Index 164
Sulphated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 0.6
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683) 3.58
Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97) -45
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 254


This oil XOM says is suitable for both C2 and C3 applications (it's actually a C3 oil). The SAPS level is on the lower side, but if you kept the OCI to 10,000 miles you should be OK.
 
Quote:
Mobil 1 ESP X1 0W-30 is a C2 oil available in 0W-30 as well

Yep it sits right on the C2 (HTHS >= 2.9 cP & < 3.5 cP) and C3 (HTHS >= 3.5 cP) borderline and is a fine pick, closer to your OEM SAPS level too.


Quote:
Specifications and approvals

Mobil 1 ESP X1 0W-30 motor oil meets or exceeds the requirements of:
ACEA C2, C3
Mobil 1 ESP X1 0W-30 has the following builder approvals:
MB-Approval 229.31
MB-Approval 229.51
MB-Approval 229.52
Technical details

Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40ºC 65.0
cSt @ 100ºC 12.0
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 0.8
Phosphorous 0.08
Density @ 15ºC kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.847
Total Base Number (TBN) ASTM D 2896 7.6
MRV at -30ºC 24,800
Viscosity Index 180
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC, ASTM D 4683 3.5


Quote:
2017 Jaguar 2.0 Diesel. That with the 20,000 mile OCI is what makes me wonder.


These long diesel OCI are more a reflection of the low level of sulphur in the diesel fuel. I don't know the difference in sulphur level between North American diesel and European diesel. The lower the sulphur and the higher the TBN, the longer the OCI.
 
I have looked around but I can't find any good information on the Jaguar specification. I looked at Shell's UK web site and found an oil that meets the Jaguar specification: Shell Helix Ultra Professional AJ-L 0w-30. The product specifications are similar to Castrol and the C2 rated Mobil.

I now know that it is not the same as the VW specification: Shell's VW oil has a of Kinematic Viscosity @ 100C of 11.9, while it is 9.8 for the Jaguar specification oil.

Total has a Jaguar spec oil QUARTZ INEO FIRST 0W-30 which is also Honda diesel and PSA approved. It also has a KV@100C of 9.8

Where would a mere mortal find the sacred writings of JLR? I am not finding it with Google...
 
With a bit of checking, it seems that JLR allow an "ordinary" C2 in a pinch. None of the ordinary oil guides (Afton, Petro-Canada) list anything on the specification itself.
 
This UK Jag site (here) says the Jag oil standards are based on the Ford oil standards.

The equivalent to STJLR.03.5007 is Ford WSS-M2C950-A if that helps. But this oil seems just as obscure.

The oil appears to be a mid-SAPS ACEA C2 oil with it's KV100 viscosity right at the lower end of the 30 grade range, about 9.6 cSt. The cut off to be a 30 grade oil is a KV100 of 9.3 cSt. This is fairly typical of some Ford oils I have met before and it appears to be a thin oil for fuel economy reasons, but still a 30 grade (and not say a 20 grade) so as to not go too thin and thus offer a minimum level of wear protection.

Basically a thin mid-SAPS C2 0W30 with the 0W also helping with short-trip fuel economy and very cold starts.

Going to a thicker mid-SAPS C3 5W30 should only cost you some minor fuel economy and some extreme cold starting ability, as far as I can tell.
 
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