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Fluid temps when it's cold out #4619815
12/31/17 03:55 PM
12/31/17 03:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,206
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline OP
OVERKILL  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,206
Ontario, Canada
I think we had a discussion on this in the past as one of the key points of discussion regarding winter driving has been oil temperature versus coolant temperature. I have indicated that this depends on the presence, or lack thereof, of an oil/coolant heat exchanger, which many vehicles, particularly with the pursuit of thinner lubricants, have been fitted with. My last four vehicles have all had this feature and subsequently coolant and oil temperatures track well together during warm-up.

Today it was -20C (-4F) which is a bit warmer than previous days, but unfortunately I didn't think about this until today. I can check at colder temps if there is interest.

I figured I'd snap a few shots of the VIC in UConnect for the Jeep after approximately 10 minutes of driving, here are the results:





As can be seen oil/coolant track basically identically. Trans temperature lags significantly in comparison. Also, intake air temperature is an interesting one. It drops considerably when moving however between the time I stopped and the time I took the pictures it had increased to what you see from several degrees cooler. She breathes near the rad, which is likely an important part of that.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Fluid temps when it's cold out [Re: OVERKILL] #4619829
12/31/17 04:10 PM
12/31/17 04:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,313
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,313
Great Lakes
Oil temp in wife's Q5 is at around 175F when driving around town when it's cold like today (around 10F).

BTW, these nice digital gauges make me want to get an SRT. smile


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (FF)
Re: Fluid temps when it's cold out [Re: OVERKILL] #4619830
12/31/17 04:11 PM
12/31/17 04:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,185
Campbellsville, KY
Alex_V Offline
Alex_V  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,185
Campbellsville, KY
Must have a pretty good oil cooler. Hopefully it keeps the two temps that close when you're thrashing it on a hot summer day. wink


I like Chevy and Valvoline.

'13 Cruze, 1.4T, 113K
'85 GMC C3500, 454, 130K
'82 Mercedes 300CD, OM617 turbo, 169K
'67 Suburban, 350, 331K
Re: Fluid temps when it's cold out [Re: Alex_V] #4619841
12/31/17 04:15 PM
12/31/17 04:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,206
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline OP
OVERKILL  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,206
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Alex_V
Must have a pretty good oil cooler. Hopefully it keeps the two temps that close when you're thrashing it on a hot summer day. wink


Yeah, it's a pretty good sized exchanger and does a good job year-round.

Here's the parts diagram for it:


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Fluid temps when it's cold out [Re: OVERKILL] #4619845
12/31/17 04:21 PM
12/31/17 04:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 10,825
In the shop
53' Stude Online content
53' Stude  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 10,825
In the shop
Overkill, thank you for the neat info smile Cheers1


09' Camry LE, 141,020 miles

PP 5w30 and TG 4967
Re: Fluid temps when it's cold out [Re: OVERKILL] #4619870
12/31/17 04:53 PM
12/31/17 04:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,088
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,088
New Jersey
My 135i still hits the standard 240-ish F oil temperatures when below freezing.

Ive never found any vehicle that doesn't track to normal operating temperature in below freezing temperatures. Diesels can be tough to get to temp without load, and older small 4 cyl engines would also take forever. Modern small engines come up to temp well, I can't imagine a behemoth having an issue.

Re: Fluid temps when it's cold out [Re: JHZR2] #4619875
12/31/17 04:56 PM
12/31/17 04:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,206
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline OP
OVERKILL  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,206
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
My 135i still hits the standard 240-ish F oil temperatures when below freezing.

Ive never found any vehicle that doesn't track to normal operating temperature in below freezing temperatures. Diesels can be tough to get to temp without load, and older small 4 cyl engines would also take forever. Modern small engines come up to temp well, I can't imagine a behemoth having an issue.


My M5 was cold blooded on the oil side of things, because of its big cooler in the valley. I believe I posted some pics of it in the past. It really could not get the oil up to temp in winter months.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Fluid temps when it's cold out [Re: OVERKILL] #4619888
12/31/17 05:07 PM
12/31/17 05:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 400
Massachusetts
VeryNoisyPoet Offline
VeryNoisyPoet  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 400
Massachusetts
Cool info! Was that slow city driving or highway driving? How much oil does the Jeep hold? Any info on where the temp probe for the oil takes the measurement?

I installed a transmission temp sensor and see similar lag compared to coolant temp. Considering an oil pressure and oil temp sensors next. My IR thermometer on bottom of sump pan shows 150 F after 10 minutes of city driving in 10 F ambient temp. Coolant temp was stable at 185 F by then. Not sure how accurately the thermometer reads or how well pan temp reflects actual oil temp.

Both transmission and engine have oil to coolant heat exchangers in the radiator end tanks.


1998 V70 GLT / 192k miles [10w-30 Valvoline Syn w/ Maxlife Tech + Mann W917 filter]

"Use yah blinkah!"

"Be nice. The alternative involves an air horn and 7000 lumens of high beam."
Re: Fluid temps when it's cold out [Re: OVERKILL] #4619891
12/31/17 05:11 PM
12/31/17 05:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,413
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,413
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
As can be seen oil/coolant track basically identically.

As I've mentioned before, with the G37 at least, even ten minutes of driving in these temperatures, and you won't touch the oil filter with your bare hands. It's a totally different experience from the Chevy small blocks of the day, when I could change oil in summer after a day's running in 30 C or warmer, without gloves.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Fluid temps when it's cold out [Re: VeryNoisyPoet] #4619900
12/31/17 05:19 PM
12/31/17 05:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,206
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline OP
OVERKILL  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,206
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: VeryNoisyPoet
Cool info! Was that slow city driving or highway driving? How much oil does the Jeep hold? Any info on where the temp probe for the oil takes the measurement?

I installed a transmission temp sensor and see similar lag compared to coolant temp. Considering an oil pressure and oil temp sensors next. My IR thermometer on bottom of sump pan shows 150 F after 10 minutes of city driving in 10 F ambient temp. Coolant temp was stable at 185 F by then. Not sure how accurately the thermometer reads or how well pan temp reflects actual oil temp.

Both transmission and engine have oil to coolant heat exchangers in the radiator end tanks.


This was all city driving, was dropping off the kids for New Years at a sitter.

The Jeep holds 7L of oil roughly. The temp sensor is on the front of the engine, just below the left cylinder head IIRC.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Fluid temps when it's cold out [Re: OVERKILL] #4619905
12/31/17 05:23 PM
12/31/17 05:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,088
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,088
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
My 135i still hits the standard 240-ish F oil temperatures when below freezing.

Ive never found any vehicle that doesn't track to normal operating temperature in below freezing temperatures. Diesels can be tough to get to temp without load, and older small 4 cyl engines would also take forever. Modern small engines come up to temp well, I can't imagine a behemoth having an issue.


My M5 was cold blooded on the oil side of things, because of its big cooler in the valley. I believe I posted some pics of it in the past. It really could not get the oil up to temp in winter months.


The 135i cooler is relatively undersized, resulting in high temps.

I'm sort of surprised any of these aren't thermally controlled. Even my early 80s diesels have thermostats to prevent the oil from being too cold.

Re: Fluid temps when it's cold out [Re: Garak] #4619909
12/31/17 05:28 PM
12/31/17 05:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,088
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,088
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
As can be seen oil/coolant track basically identically.

As I've mentioned before, with the G37 at least, even ten minutes of driving in these temperatures, and you won't touch the oil filter with your bare hands. It's a totally different experience from the Chevy small blocks of the day, when I could change oil in summer after a day's running in 30 C or warmer, without gloves.


I dunno. I noticed this when servicing 20kw kubota IDI diesel gensets after the hurricanes. And they had 7qt sumps.

Re: Fluid temps when it's cold out [Re: JHZR2] #4619910
12/31/17 05:28 PM
12/31/17 05:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,206
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline OP
OVERKILL  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,206
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
My 135i still hits the standard 240-ish F oil temperatures when below freezing.

Ive never found any vehicle that doesn't track to normal operating temperature in below freezing temperatures. Diesels can be tough to get to temp without load, and older small 4 cyl engines would also take forever. Modern small engines come up to temp well, I can't imagine a behemoth having an issue.


My M5 was cold blooded on the oil side of things, because of its big cooler in the valley. I believe I posted some pics of it in the past. It really could not get the oil up to temp in winter months.


The 135i cooler is relatively undersized, resulting in high temps.

I'm sort of surprised any of these aren't thermally controlled. Even my early 80s diesels have thermostats to prevent the oil from being too cold.


The M5 had a thermostat on its oil cooler circuit, but IIRC, the cooler was air/oil and even when bypassed, there was enough heat shedding going on that it was just not a good winter setup. In comparison, all the Chargers and the Expedition have been oil/coolant which heat up the oil in tick with the coolant.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Fluid temps when it's cold out [Re: OVERKILL] #4619915
12/31/17 05:33 PM
12/31/17 05:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,625
Cedarbrae, Ontario
xxch4osxx Offline
xxch4osxx  Offline
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,625
Cedarbrae, Ontario
The oil temp in my Ram comes up quick to about the same as the coolant even in the really cold days we have had lately. The heater in my Ram works really good as well, thankfully lol


2015 RAM SXT Crew Cab 5.7 with 6 speed tranny.

2008 Mazda 3 GS Sport Hatchback 5sp MT (Girlfriend's car)

Re: Fluid temps when it's cold out [Re: OVERKILL] #4619932
12/31/17 05:56 PM
12/31/17 05:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 974
CO
Nederlander75 Offline
Nederlander75  Offline
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 974
CO
My S65 M3 runs around 215F in 90 ambient and around 205 in single digits with its huge cooler. My BRZ similar with no cooler. This is after 25 minutes averaging 3500-4000RPM and a couple redline pulls. On the track it’s a drastically different story.

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