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Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution #4618805
12/30/17 12:26 PM
12/30/17 12:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 318
MD
claluja Offline OP
claluja  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 318
MD
Thoughts on best general type of oil for handling expected 1-3% fuel dilution for a gas engine? Dino, synthetic, pao, ester?

Does add pack matter?

For expected fuel dilution, see link:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr..._Ya#Post4520553


2014 F250 6.7L PSD
2006 Sequoia 4.7L
2005 E500 5.0L
2018 Jeep Rubicon, Pentastar 3.6L
Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja] #4618808
12/30/17 12:31 PM
12/30/17 12:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,578
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,578
Idaho
Oil doesn't handle dilution.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja] #4618810
12/30/17 12:34 PM
12/30/17 12:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,501
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,501
...
There is no best. Your oil change interval will have more importance.

On a side note, there have been multiple uoa’s posted with high fuel dilution yet wear metal amounts were well within safe limits.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: PimTac] #4618816
12/30/17 12:40 PM
12/30/17 12:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,143
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,143
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: PimTac

On a side note, there have been multiple uoa’s posted with high fuel dilution yet wear metal amounts were well within safe limits.


I wonder if this is due to excellent "anti-wear" additive properties?

I'd love to see more testing.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja] #4618827
12/30/17 01:08 PM
12/30/17 01:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,829
.
Danh Offline
Danh  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,829
.
Assume no there's no underlying mechanical problem, about all you can do for fuel dilution is a) change the oil more frequently and b) go up a viscosity grade or look for the most viscous oil available in your specified grade.

Looking at your UOAs you have a lot of fuel dilution and, based on viscosity, way more than Blackstone estimates (but Blackstone is another story on this subject).

Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja] #4618841
12/30/17 01:25 PM
12/30/17 01:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline
OneEyeJack  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
Work your engine a bit more.

Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: Danh] #4618855
12/30/17 01:40 PM
12/30/17 01:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 318
MD
claluja Offline OP
claluja  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 318
MD
Originally Posted By: Danh
Looking at your UOAs you have a lot of fuel dilution and, based on viscosity, way more than Blackstone estimates (but Blackstone is another story on this subject).


Aside from what Blackstone says, the above link shows that SUS viscosity (@ 210 F) dropped from 65 to 48, and that cSt viscosity (@ 100 C) dropped from 11.76 to 6.86. From these viscosity drops, is there any way to better estimate fuel dilution % (other than Blackstone numbers)? Anyone think I'm over 4%?


2014 F250 6.7L PSD
2006 Sequoia 4.7L
2005 E500 5.0L
2018 Jeep Rubicon, Pentastar 3.6L
Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja] #4618860
12/30/17 01:49 PM
12/30/17 01:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,829
.
Danh Offline
Danh  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,829
.
Originally Posted By: claluja
Originally Posted By: Danh
Looking at your UOAs you have a lot of fuel dilution and, based on viscosity, way more than Blackstone estimates (but Blackstone is another story on this subject).


Aside from what Blackstone says, the above link shows that SUS viscosity (@ 210 F) dropped from 65 to 48, and that cSt viscosity (@ 100 C) dropped from 11.76 to 6.86. From these viscosity drops, is there any way to better estimate fuel dilution % (other than Blackstone numbers)? Anyone think I'm over 4%?


Look at UOAs from Oil Analyzers, which uses gas chromatography to determine fuel dilution. My own experience with Oil Analyzers is that a 100C cSt drop of 2 full points from new yields dilution of >5% (OAI doesn't quantify values >5%). So, assuming the viscosity drop isn't from another source a drop of 4 points would be 10% or more.

I don't know much about outboard motors, but this level of dilution seems really excessive especially because this isn't a direct-injection engine. Sure there isn't another problem here like deposits on fuel injectors? Can you try a fuel system treatment like Techron on this engine? Or maybe it really doesn't like trolling?

Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja] #4618892
12/30/17 02:33 PM
12/30/17 02:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,920
Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
JimPghPA Offline
JimPghPA  Offline
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,920
Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
A thicker (higher viscosity) oil would have room for the lowering of viscosity that fuel dilution causes.

So if normally you were running a XW-30, you might want to run a XW-40, and if you were running XW-40 you might want to run a XW-50.


Boy will I be happy when ALL vehicles on public roads are autonomous.


JimPghPa

Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja] #4618942
12/30/17 03:55 PM
12/30/17 03:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 517
E. Tennessee
WhizkidTN Offline
WhizkidTN  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 517
E. Tennessee
FWIW: My turbo Optima will run greater than 5% fuel dilution (using Oil Analyzer's GC method) and I've experimented with synthetic oils M1 0W-40 (FS and non-FS versions) and now Castrol Edge 0W-40 oil. My best reports have come from running the Castrol Edge oil (w/OCI of under 5K miles).

My wear levels are very good regardless.


His: '12 Kia Optima SX - 2.0L GDI Twin-Scroll Turbo [Tuned] (76K)
>EDGE 0W-40, Fram XG9688
Her's: '14 Nissan Rogue SL AWD - 2.5L NA (75K)
>EDGE 0W-20, Fram XG6607
Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja] #4619011
12/30/17 04:45 PM
12/30/17 04:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,473
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,473
Malaysia
Dual rated HDEO's inherently with higher HTHS.

Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja] #4620824
01/01/18 04:19 PM
01/01/18 04:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 318
MD
claluja Offline OP
claluja  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 318
MD
Synthetic oil is more tolerant of fuel dilution. For example, see:

http://www.boats.com/reviews/the-outboard-expert-outboard-oil-facts-and-myths/#.WkqwiHNOnqA

A certification under FC-W requires an HTHS of at least 3.3 cP, which most other xw30 oils don't meet. FA-4 HDEOs, for example, have HTHS of 2.9-3.2.

So, for now, due to the expected fuel dilution, thinking of reducing OCI intervals, and sticking with synthetic Yamalube 5w30 (OEM rec) which is FC-W certified.

Will also get a new lab (preferably Oil Analyzers) to handle next UOAs for this pair of engines, to get a better handle on fuel dilution percentage.

Last edited by claluja; 01/01/18 04:28 PM.

2014 F250 6.7L PSD
2006 Sequoia 4.7L
2005 E500 5.0L
2018 Jeep Rubicon, Pentastar 3.6L
Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja] #4620922
01/01/18 05:39 PM
01/01/18 05:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,196
Indiana
BobFout Offline
BobFout  Offline
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,196
Indiana
Originally Posted By: claluja
Synthetic oil is more tolerant of fuel dilution. For example, see:

http://www.boats.com/reviews/the-outboard-expert-outboard-oil-facts-and-myths/#.WkqwiHNOnqA

A certification under FC-W requires an HTHS of at least 3.3 cP, which most other xw30 oils don't meet. FA-4 HDEOs, for example, have HTHS of 2.9-3.2.

So, for now, due to the expected fuel dilution, thinking of reducing OCI intervals, and sticking with synthetic Yamalube 5w30 (OEM rec) which is FC-W certified.

Will also get a new lab (preferably Oil Analyzers) to handle next UOAs for this pair of engines, to get a better handle on fuel dilution percentage.


Pick an ACEA A3/B3/B4/C3/C4 xw30 or CJ-4/CK-4 xw30. You'll get a higher HTHS.


2003 VW Jetta TDI (Sold) / 2015 VW GTI 2.0T
Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja] #4621194
01/01/18 09:19 PM
01/01/18 09:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 552
South OZ
KL31 Offline
KL31  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 552
South OZ
Actually someone did find some boutique oils like bio syn? Resisted fuel dilution very well. Can't remember the name of it but there was a user spouting off about it and a number of things and people got sick of some of his comments. His UOA however did show some of the lowest dilution in a turbo DI car and he used a lab with GC testing.

Blackstone fuel numbers can't be trusted. If they say there's X amount of fuel, it's almost always way more and the viscosity does look really low. If the engine is port injected then something may be wrong.


95 MX-3 2.5L|Shell Helix Ultra 5W40|Wix 51356
04 Focus 1.8L|Wesfil Cooper WZ63|Valvoline MST 5W30
05 Kluger 3.3L|Wesfil Cooper WZ418|Magnatec 10W30 Semi Syn
Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: KL31] #4621684
01/02/18 12:01 PM
01/02/18 12:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,306
NJ
bluesubie Offline
bluesubie  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,306
NJ
Originally Posted By: KL31
Actually someone did find some boutique oils like bio syn? Resisted fuel dilution very well. Can't remember the name of it but there was a user spouting off about it and a number of things and people got sick of some of his comments. His UOA however did show some of the lowest dilution in a turbo DI car and he used a lab with GC testing.

Blackstone fuel numbers can't be trusted. If they say there's X amount of fuel, it's almost always way more and the viscosity does look really low. If the engine is port injected then something may be wrong.

I've been looking for details on how RLI is supposed to handle fuel better for a while now, but can't find the details. A few good threads can be found with a google search.

I like this from edhackett:
Quote:
The unsaturated aromatic hydrocarbons in the fuel react with the base oils and VIIs and permanently shear them. The sheared ends then oxidize. The oil is permanently damaged and can not be restored by getting it up to temperature. The damage does effect the ability of the oil to lubricate.

What you would see in UOA would be lower viscosity, lower HTHS, high oxidation, and rapid TBN depletion compared to an oil not subjected to excessive fuel dilution. Keeping the OCIs short is the only way to mitigate the effects of fuel dilution.

High quality HDEOs seem to be able to better withstand the effects of fuel dilution better than standard PCMOs.

From this thread:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2752927

Some quotes in here from Terry Dyson:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1308021

And I do not recall if there are more details about how RLI is supposed to help in one of the original RS4 threads (haven't read through this lately):

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1173821/1

Last edited by bluesubie; 01/02/18 12:03 PM.

'04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Castrol Edge High Mileage
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