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#4618805 - 12/30/17 12:26 PM Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution
claluja Offline


Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 254
Loc: MD
Thoughts on best general type of oil for handling expected 1-3% fuel dilution for a gas engine? Dino, synthetic, pao, ester?

Does add pack matter?

For expected fuel dilution, see link:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr..._Ya#Post4520553
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#4618808 - 12/30/17 12:31 PM Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 10934
Loc: Idaho
Oil doesn't handle dilution.
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#4618810 - 12/30/17 12:34 PM Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja]
PimTac Online   content


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 4246
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
There is no best. Your oil change interval will have more importance.

On a side note, there have been multiple uoa’s posted with high fuel dilution yet wear metal amounts were well within safe limits.
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#4618816 - 12/30/17 12:40 PM Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: PimTac]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: PimTac

On a side note, there have been multiple uoa’s posted with high fuel dilution yet wear metal amounts were well within safe limits.


I wonder if this is due to excellent "anti-wear" additive properties?

I'd love to see more testing.
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#4618827 - 12/30/17 01:08 PM Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja]
Danh Offline


Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1749
Loc: .
Assume no there's no underlying mechanical problem, about all you can do for fuel dilution is a) change the oil more frequently and b) go up a viscosity grade or look for the most viscous oil available in your specified grade.

Looking at your UOAs you have a lot of fuel dilution and, based on viscosity, way more than Blackstone estimates (but Blackstone is another story on this subject).

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#4618841 - 12/30/17 01:25 PM Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja]
OneEyeJack Offline


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 7475
Loc: S California
Work your engine a bit more.

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#4618855 - 12/30/17 01:40 PM Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: Danh]
claluja Offline


Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 254
Loc: MD
Originally Posted By: Danh
Looking at your UOAs you have a lot of fuel dilution and, based on viscosity, way more than Blackstone estimates (but Blackstone is another story on this subject).


Aside from what Blackstone says, the above link shows that SUS viscosity (@ 210 F) dropped from 65 to 48, and that cSt viscosity (@ 100 C) dropped from 11.76 to 6.86. From these viscosity drops, is there any way to better estimate fuel dilution % (other than Blackstone numbers)? Anyone think I'm over 4%?
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#4618860 - 12/30/17 01:49 PM Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja]
Danh Offline


Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1749
Loc: .
Originally Posted By: claluja
Originally Posted By: Danh
Looking at your UOAs you have a lot of fuel dilution and, based on viscosity, way more than Blackstone estimates (but Blackstone is another story on this subject).


Aside from what Blackstone says, the above link shows that SUS viscosity (@ 210 F) dropped from 65 to 48, and that cSt viscosity (@ 100 C) dropped from 11.76 to 6.86. From these viscosity drops, is there any way to better estimate fuel dilution % (other than Blackstone numbers)? Anyone think I'm over 4%?


Look at UOAs from Oil Analyzers, which uses gas chromatography to determine fuel dilution. My own experience with Oil Analyzers is that a 100C cSt drop of 2 full points from new yields dilution of >5% (OAI doesn't quantify values >5%). So, assuming the viscosity drop isn't from another source a drop of 4 points would be 10% or more.

I don't know much about outboard motors, but this level of dilution seems really excessive especially because this isn't a direct-injection engine. Sure there isn't another problem here like deposits on fuel injectors? Can you try a fuel system treatment like Techron on this engine? Or maybe it really doesn't like trolling?

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#4618892 - 12/30/17 02:33 PM Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja]
JimPghPA Offline


Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 3859
Loc: Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
A thicker (higher viscosity) oil would have room for the lowering of viscosity that fuel dilution causes.

So if normally you were running a XW-30, you might want to run a XW-40, and if you were running XW-40 you might want to run a XW-50.
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#4618942 - 12/30/17 03:55 PM Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja]
WhizkidTN Offline


Registered: 12/05/16
Posts: 482
Loc: E. Tennessee
FWIW: My turbo Optima will run greater than 5% fuel dilution (using Oil Analyzer's GC method) and I've experimented with synthetic oils M1 0W-40 (FS and non-FS versions) and now Castrol Edge 0W-40 oil. My best reports have come from running the Castrol Edge oil (w/OCI of under 5K miles).

My wear levels are very good regardless.
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#4619011 - 12/30/17 04:45 PM Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja]
zeng Offline


Registered: 09/01/15
Posts: 2187
Loc: Malaysia
Dual rated HDEO's inherently with higher HTHS.

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#4620824 - 01/01/18 04:19 PM Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja]
claluja Offline


Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 254
Loc: MD
Synthetic oil is more tolerant of fuel dilution. For example, see:

http://www.boats.com/reviews/the-outboard-expert-outboard-oil-facts-and-myths/#.WkqwiHNOnqA

A certification under FC-W requires an HTHS of at least 3.3 cP, which most other xw30 oils don't meet. FA-4 HDEOs, for example, have HTHS of 2.9-3.2.

So, for now, due to the expected fuel dilution, thinking of reducing OCI intervals, and sticking with synthetic Yamalube 5w30 (OEM rec) which is FC-W certified.

Will also get a new lab (preferably Oil Analyzers) to handle next UOAs for this pair of engines, to get a better handle on fuel dilution percentage.


Edited by claluja (01/01/18 04:28 PM)
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#4620922 - 01/01/18 05:39 PM Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja]
BobFout Offline


Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 3189
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: claluja
Synthetic oil is more tolerant of fuel dilution. For example, see:

http://www.boats.com/reviews/the-outboard-expert-outboard-oil-facts-and-myths/#.WkqwiHNOnqA

A certification under FC-W requires an HTHS of at least 3.3 cP, which most other xw30 oils don't meet. FA-4 HDEOs, for example, have HTHS of 2.9-3.2.

So, for now, due to the expected fuel dilution, thinking of reducing OCI intervals, and sticking with synthetic Yamalube 5w30 (OEM rec) which is FC-W certified.

Will also get a new lab (preferably Oil Analyzers) to handle next UOAs for this pair of engines, to get a better handle on fuel dilution percentage.


Pick an ACEA A3/B3/B4/C3/C4 xw30 or CJ-4/CK-4 xw30. You'll get a higher HTHS.
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#4621194 - 01/01/18 09:19 PM Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: claluja]
KL31 Offline


Registered: 06/03/16
Posts: 549
Loc: South OZ
Actually someone did find some boutique oils like bio syn? Resisted fuel dilution very well. Can't remember the name of it but there was a user spouting off about it and a number of things and people got sick of some of his comments. His UOA however did show some of the lowest dilution in a turbo DI car and he used a lab with GC testing.

Blackstone fuel numbers can't be trusted. If they say there's X amount of fuel, it's almost always way more and the viscosity does look really low. If the engine is port injected then something may be wrong.
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#4621684 - 01/02/18 12:01 PM Re: Best oil for handling 1-3% fuel dilution [Re: KL31]
bluesubie Offline


Registered: 08/04/03
Posts: 2279
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: KL31
Actually someone did find some boutique oils like bio syn? Resisted fuel dilution very well. Can't remember the name of it but there was a user spouting off about it and a number of things and people got sick of some of his comments. His UOA however did show some of the lowest dilution in a turbo DI car and he used a lab with GC testing.

Blackstone fuel numbers can't be trusted. If they say there's X amount of fuel, it's almost always way more and the viscosity does look really low. If the engine is port injected then something may be wrong.

I've been looking for details on how RLI is supposed to handle fuel better for a while now, but can't find the details. A few good threads can be found with a google search.

I like this from edhackett:
Quote:
The unsaturated aromatic hydrocarbons in the fuel react with the base oils and VIIs and permanently shear them. The sheared ends then oxidize. The oil is permanently damaged and can not be restored by getting it up to temperature. The damage does effect the ability of the oil to lubricate.

What you would see in UOA would be lower viscosity, lower HTHS, high oxidation, and rapid TBN depletion compared to an oil not subjected to excessive fuel dilution. Keeping the OCIs short is the only way to mitigate the effects of fuel dilution.

High quality HDEOs seem to be able to better withstand the effects of fuel dilution better than standard PCMOs.

From this thread:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2752927

Some quotes in here from Terry Dyson:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1308021

And I do not recall if there are more details about how RLI is supposed to help in one of the original RS4 threads (haven't read through this lately):

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1173821/1


Edited by bluesubie (01/02/18 12:03 PM)
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