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What makes extended oil drain oil extended. #4617514
12/29/17 09:40 AM
12/29/17 09:40 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 438
Vermont
littleant Online content OP
littleant  Online Content OP
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 438
Vermont
What makes extended oil drain oils extended. Stronger add pack? Because its synthetic? Better cleaning?. Is Quaker State UD consider an extended drain oil. Thanks


I can't prevent getting old but I REFUSE to grow up.
2010 Mountaineer 4.0
2002 Jeep Wrangler TJ 4.0
Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: littleant] #4617519
12/29/17 09:48 AM
12/29/17 09:48 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,387
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,387
Kendall, FL
Specific equipment (PFI vs GDI and/or Turbo...) and how it's used, i.e., severe service vs normal etc.

For confirmation on how long an oil can go in your application, a few UOA at more conservative mileage would serve you better than any marketing claims, lab testing or slick wording on labels. This will give you confidence moving forward since you will also have data to back up your decision.


'18 KIA Sportage LX AWD 2.4L: MSS 10w30
'13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: EDGE 5w30
Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: wemay] #4617524
12/29/17 09:54 AM
12/29/17 09:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,223
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Offline
JohnnyJohnson  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,223
Wet side WA
Originally Posted By: wemay
Specific equipment (PFI vs GDI and/or Turbo...) and how it's used, i.e., severe service vs normal etc.

For confirmation on how long an oil can go in your application, a few UOA at a more conservative mileage would serve you better than any marketing claims or slick wording on labels.


thumbsup


2004 Corolla 124805
Out: VML 5w-30 TG4967 OCI 5007 Miles
In: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 122537 7-18-18
2006 Duramax 74277
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 74705 4-22-18
Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: littleant] #4617551
12/29/17 10:17 AM
12/29/17 10:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,997
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,997
MN
Originally Posted By: littleant
What makes extended oil drain oils extended. Stronger add pack? Because its synthetic? Better cleaning?. Is Quaker State UD consider an extended drain oil. Thanks
Chemistry. ... Oxidation resistance, which mean using expensive base oils like PAO, and using advanced anti-oxidant chemicals thrown in. Also, the anti-wear chemicals must be robust, and the Viscosity Index Improver chemicals as well. Then, there must be plenty of antacid overbased stuff to continue to buffer acid buildup over time, and the amount of sulphur (H2SO4 formed) in gasoline plays a big role in that, as U.S. gasoline is mostly very low-sulphur now.

In a nutshell: chemical stability under heat and stress over time makes an Extended Oil like M1 EP, M1 Ann Prot, and Amsoil SS.

Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: littleant] #4617618
12/29/17 10:57 AM
12/29/17 10:57 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,453
Indiana
dlundblad Offline
dlundblad  Offline
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,453
Indiana
HTHS above 3.5 cSt?


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 200k Castrol Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 177k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 149k Rotella T5 10w30 Supertech ST3980

Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: littleant] #4617821
12/29/17 02:37 PM
12/29/17 02:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,201
Slovenia EU
Kamele0N Online sick
Kamele0N  Online Sick
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,201
Slovenia EU
Acea a3/b4 grin


2011 Hyundai i30 1.4 CVVT Shell Helix Ultra 5w40
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD Shell Rimula R6M 10w40
Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: littleant] #4617862
12/29/17 03:22 PM
12/29/17 03:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 466
burlington ,ontario, canada
ndfergy Offline
ndfergy  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 466
burlington ,ontario, canada
TBN greater than 8 would be my guess. As far as conventional vs synthetic? Probably more vehicle specific. Case in point: my Yaris' OCI is 16,000km on their conventional 5W-30 oil for normal operation. My wife has the same OCI but with 0W-20 synthetic.


2015 Toyota Yaris 5spd Manual
Summer: Mobil Super 1000 10w30
Winter: Mobil Super 1000 5w30
OEM Filter
Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: littleant] #4617917
12/29/17 04:51 PM
12/29/17 04:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,754
New Zealand
Silk Offline
Silk  Offline
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,754
New Zealand
I thought it was just ignorance or economics...or maybe the lube sticker fell off or became unreadable. I see lots of extended oil changes...they leave my workshop 20,000km over and i never see them again. How far did they go....?


1987 BMW R65 - Penrite V Twin 20/50
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: littleant] #4617941
12/29/17 05:34 PM
12/29/17 05:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
Originally Posted By: littleant
What makes extended oil drain oils extended.

A3/B4

http://www.acea.be/uploads/news_documents/ACEA_European_oil_sequences_2016.pdf

Shear stable VII
High TBN
Low Noack
High SAPS for strong ZDDP & Detergent add pack (the ZDDP is an antioxidant to protect the oil, anti-wear to protect the metal, and quenches LSPI - while the detergent fights acid build up)
With a HTHS reserve
All formulated around quality base oils to resist oxidation and deposit formation.


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: SR5] #4617957
12/29/17 05:52 PM
12/29/17 05:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,749
Rijeka, EU
chrisri Offline
chrisri  Offline
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,749
Rijeka, EU
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: littleant
What makes extended oil drain oils extended.

A3/B4

http://www.acea.be/uploads/news_documents/ACEA_European_oil_sequences_2016.pdf

Shear stable VII
High TBN
Low Noack
High SAPS for strong ZDDP & Detergent add pack (the ZDDP is an antioxidant to protect the oil, anti-wear to protect the metal, and quenches LSPI - while the detergent fights acid build up)
With a HTHS reserve
All formulated around quality base oils to resist oxidation and deposit formation.


We are getting PUG Expert 2018 (1.6 hdi) and PUG Boxer (one is 3.0 IVECO, no idea for the other). Expert's OCI is 40k km, Boxer's 50k km. On C3 (possibly C2 oils)!

I agree with your post completely, but OEMs recommendations go completely different way- low HTHS, low/mid SAPS and very long OCIs.


02 Nissan Terrano 2.7.TDi Motul 15w40
06 FIAT Stilo MW 1.9 Multijet SHU 5w40
07 Opel Vectra SW 1.9 CDTI 150 MST 5w40
Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: chrisri] #4618071
12/29/17 07:22 PM
12/29/17 07:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
Originally Posted By: chrisri
I agree with your post completely, but OEMs recommendations go completely different way- low HTHS, low/mid SAPS and very long OCIs.


Yeah I hear you mate. And I shake my head at these long OCI's on C3 oils and shocked at C2 oils. I assume this is for Europe only with it's super high quality and low sulphur fuel. Some reports here on BITOG suggest they are not doing as well as the A3/B4 oils (from memory) but maybe they just have to be "acceptable".

Some of those low-SAPS & high-HTHS Porsche C30 & VW 504 / 507 oils are very high quality and seem to require very good base oils to get the job done. They are usually a high content PAO (Group IV) based oils. The high-SAPS versions being A3/B4 and Porsche A40 etc can seem to get away with Group III Hydrocracked synthetics.

My preference is for a PAO based A3/B4 such as Castrol Edge 0W40 to get the best of both worlds.


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: littleant] #4618133
12/29/17 08:20 PM
12/29/17 08:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,637
Katy, Republic of Texas
blupupher Offline
blupupher  Offline
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,637
Katy, Republic of Texas
For me, it mainly depends on my driving style.
When I was driving 350 miles/week all highway, I did 10,000 mile intervals on my '04 Elantra using several different synthetic oils.
On my truck, I only drive maybe 350 miles a month, mostly short trips, so I change it every 4000 or so.

Now days is also depends on the engine. On a direct engine turbo, I would not do 10,000 miles even if all highway.


1994 Honda VT1100: Peak 15w-40/PSL/2500 mile OCI
2002 Ford F150: GTX HM 5w-20/EcoGard Syn/1yr OCI
2012 Scion xB: QSUD 0w-20/CQ Blue/5k OCI

Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: SR5] #4618391
12/30/17 01:07 AM
12/30/17 01:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,247
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,247
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: SR5
[quote=chrisri]
My preference is for a PAO based A3/B4 such as Castrol Edge 0W40 to get the best of both worlds.


Nice... the Castrol Edge 10W-40 oil (clearance $2.00 qt) at Autozone is ACEA A3/B4 thumbsup


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: chrisri] #4618874
12/30/17 03:13 PM
12/30/17 03:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 632
Melbourne, Florida
RichardS Offline
RichardS  Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 632
Melbourne, Florida
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: littleant
What makes extended oil drain oils extended.

A3/B4

http://www.acea.be/uploads/news_documents/ACEA_European_oil_sequences_2016.pdf

Shear stable VII
High TBN
Low Noack
High SAPS for strong ZDDP & Detergent add pack (the ZDDP is an antioxidant to protect the oil, anti-wear to protect the metal, and quenches LSPI - while the detergent fights acid build up)
With a HTHS reserve
All formulated around quality base oils to resist oxidation and deposit formation.


We are getting PUG Expert 2018 (1.6 hdi) and PUG Boxer (one is 3.0 IVECO, no idea for the other). Expert's OCI is 40k km, Boxer's 50k km. On C3 (possibly C2 oils)!

I agree with your post completely, but OEMs recommendations go completely different way- low HTHS, low/mid SAPS and very long OCIs.



Wait, 50k km oil change interval?!


2008 Dodge Caliber SE 2.0 117k
4qt Imeditsu 0w-20, 1/2qt Mobil SS 5w-20 Fram HM

2003 Buick Century 107k
4.5q Havoline 5w-30 HM Fram XG
Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: oil_film_movies] #4619343
12/31/17 02:50 AM
12/31/17 02:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 4
wild blue yonder
Joekar Offline
Joekar  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 4
wild blue yonder
So if I want to do 10,000 mile changes in my gently driven 2008 Tundra these oils you mention above would be a smarter choice than Penzoil Platinum Ultra for the reasons you specify? I'm learning...

Last edited by Joekar; 12/31/17 02:52 AM.
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