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#4617514 - 12/29/17 08:40 AM What makes extended oil drain oil extended.
littleant Offline


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 407
Loc: Vermont
What makes extended oil drain oils extended. Stronger add pack? Because its synthetic? Better cleaning?. Is Quaker State UD consider an extended drain oil. Thanks
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#4617519 - 12/29/17 08:48 AM Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: littleant]
wemay Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8986
Loc: Southeast Florida
Specific equipment (PFI vs GDI and/or Turbo...) and how it's used, i.e., severe service vs normal etc.

For confirmation on how long an oil can go in your application, a few UOA at more conservative mileage would serve you better than any marketing claims, lab testing or slick wording on labels. This will give you confidence moving forward since you will also have data to back up your decision.
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#4617524 - 12/29/17 08:54 AM Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: wemay]
JohnnyJohnson Offline


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2876
Loc: Wet side WA
Originally Posted By: wemay
Specific equipment (PFI vs GDI and/or Turbo...) and how it's used, i.e., severe service vs normal etc.

For confirmation on how long an oil can go in your application, a few UOA at a more conservative mileage would serve you better than any marketing claims or slick wording on labels.


thumbsup
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Out: QSUD 5W-30 Purolator One 5030
In: VML 5w-30 TG4967 117530 2-8-18
2006 Duramax 74109
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 74705 4-22-18

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#4617551 - 12/29/17 09:17 AM Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: littleant]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2634
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: littleant
What makes extended oil drain oils extended. Stronger add pack? Because its synthetic? Better cleaning?. Is Quaker State UD consider an extended drain oil. Thanks
Chemistry. ... Oxidation resistance, which mean using expensive base oils like PAO, and using advanced anti-oxidant chemicals thrown in. Also, the anti-wear chemicals must be robust, and the Viscosity Index Improver chemicals as well. Then, there must be plenty of antacid overbased stuff to continue to buffer acid buildup over time, and the amount of sulphur (H2SO4 formed) in gasoline plays a big role in that, as U.S. gasoline is mostly very low-sulphur now.

In a nutshell: chemical stability under heat and stress over time makes an Extended Oil like M1 EP, M1 Ann Prot, and Amsoil SS.

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#4617618 - 12/29/17 09:57 AM Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: littleant]
dlundblad Offline


Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 10174
Loc: Indiana
HTHS above 3.5 cSt?
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#4617821 - 12/29/17 01:37 PM Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: littleant]
Kamele0N Offline


Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 2084
Loc: Slovenia EU
Acea a3/b4 grin
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#4617862 - 12/29/17 02:22 PM Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: littleant]
ndfergy Offline


Registered: 03/28/16
Posts: 419
Loc: burlington ,ontario, canada
TBN greater than 8 would be my guess. As far as conventional vs synthetic? Probably more vehicle specific. Case in point: my Yaris' OCI is 16,000km on their conventional 5W-30 oil for normal operation. My wife has the same OCI but with 0W-20 synthetic.
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#4617917 - 12/29/17 03:51 PM Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: littleant]
Silk Offline


Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 4609
Loc: New Zealand
I thought it was just ignorance or economics...or maybe the lube sticker fell off or became unreadable. I see lots of extended oil changes...they leave my workshop 20,000km over and i never see them again. How far did they go....?
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#4617941 - 12/29/17 04:34 PM Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: littleant]
SR5 Offline


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4516
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: littleant
What makes extended oil drain oils extended.

A3/B4

http://www.acea.be/uploads/news_documents/ACEA_European_oil_sequences_2016.pdf

Shear stable VII
High TBN
Low Noack
High SAPS for strong ZDDP & Detergent add pack (the ZDDP is an antioxidant to protect the oil, anti-wear to protect the metal, and quenches LSPI - while the detergent fights acid build up)
With a HTHS reserve
All formulated around quality base oils to resist oxidation and deposit formation.
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Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154

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#4617957 - 12/29/17 04:52 PM Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: SR5]
chrisri Offline


Registered: 06/01/14
Posts: 1745
Loc: Rijeka, EU
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: littleant
What makes extended oil drain oils extended.

A3/B4

http://www.acea.be/uploads/news_documents/ACEA_European_oil_sequences_2016.pdf

Shear stable VII
High TBN
Low Noack
High SAPS for strong ZDDP & Detergent add pack (the ZDDP is an antioxidant to protect the oil, anti-wear to protect the metal, and quenches LSPI - while the detergent fights acid build up)
With a HTHS reserve
All formulated around quality base oils to resist oxidation and deposit formation.


We are getting PUG Expert 2018 (1.6 hdi) and PUG Boxer (one is 3.0 IVECO, no idea for the other). Expert's OCI is 40k km, Boxer's 50k km. On C3 (possibly C2 oils)!

I agree with your post completely, but OEMs recommendations go completely different way- low HTHS, low/mid SAPS and very long OCIs.
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#4618071 - 12/29/17 06:22 PM Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: chrisri]
SR5 Offline


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4516
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: chrisri
I agree with your post completely, but OEMs recommendations go completely different way- low HTHS, low/mid SAPS and very long OCIs.


Yeah I hear you mate. And I shake my head at these long OCI's on C3 oils and shocked at C2 oils. I assume this is for Europe only with it's super high quality and low sulphur fuel. Some reports here on BITOG suggest they are not doing as well as the A3/B4 oils (from memory) but maybe they just have to be "acceptable".

Some of those low-SAPS & high-HTHS Porsche C30 & VW 504 / 507 oils are very high quality and seem to require very good base oils to get the job done. They are usually a high content PAO (Group IV) based oils. The high-SAPS versions being A3/B4 and Porsche A40 etc can seem to get away with Group III Hydrocracked synthetics.

My preference is for a PAO based A3/B4 such as Castrol Edge 0W40 to get the best of both worlds.
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Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154

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#4618133 - 12/29/17 07:20 PM Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: littleant]
blupupher Offline


Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 4475
Loc: Katy, Republic of Texas
For me, it mainly depends on my driving style.
When I was driving 350 miles/week all highway, I did 10,000 mile intervals on my '04 Elantra using several different synthetic oils.
On my truck, I only drive maybe 350 miles a month, mostly short trips, so I change it every 4000 or so.

Now days is also depends on the engine. On a direct engine turbo, I would not do 10,000 miles even if all highway.
_________________________
1994 Honda VT1100C: Peak 15w-40/TG/2500 mile OCI
2002 Ford F150: GTX HM 5w-20/EcoGard Syn/1yr OCI
2012 Scion xB: QSUD 0w-20/CQ Blue/5k OCI


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#4618391 - 12/30/17 12:07 AM Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: SR5]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6186
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: SR5
[quote=chrisri]
My preference is for a PAO based A3/B4 such as Castrol Edge 0W40 to get the best of both worlds.


Nice... the Castrol Edge 10W-40 oil (clearance $2.00 qt) at Autozone is ACEA A3/B4 thumbsup
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#4618874 - 12/30/17 02:13 PM Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: chrisri]
RichardS Offline


Registered: 01/14/17
Posts: 632
Loc: Melbourne, Florida
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: littleant
What makes extended oil drain oils extended.

A3/B4

http://www.acea.be/uploads/news_documents/ACEA_European_oil_sequences_2016.pdf

Shear stable VII
High TBN
Low Noack
High SAPS for strong ZDDP & Detergent add pack (the ZDDP is an antioxidant to protect the oil, anti-wear to protect the metal, and quenches LSPI - while the detergent fights acid build up)
With a HTHS reserve
All formulated around quality base oils to resist oxidation and deposit formation.


We are getting PUG Expert 2018 (1.6 hdi) and PUG Boxer (one is 3.0 IVECO, no idea for the other). Expert's OCI is 40k km, Boxer's 50k km. On C3 (possibly C2 oils)!

I agree with your post completely, but OEMs recommendations go completely different way- low HTHS, low/mid SAPS and very long OCIs.



Wait, 50k km oil change interval?!
_________________________
2008 Dodge Caliber SE 2.0 117k
4qt Imeditsu 0w-20, 1/2qt Mobil SS 5w-20 Fram HM

2003 Buick Century 107k
4.5q Havoline 5w-30 HM Fram XG

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#4619343 - 12/31/17 01:50 AM Re: What makes extended oil drain oil extended. [Re: oil_film_movies]
Joekar Offline


Registered: 12/30/17
Posts: 4
Loc: wild blue yonder
So if I want to do 10,000 mile changes in my gently driven 2008 Tundra these oils you mention above would be a smarter choice than Penzoil Platinum Ultra for the reasons you specify? I'm learning...


Edited by Joekar (12/31/17 01:52 AM)

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