Buying PAO/Group IV oil in the US. Options?

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Hey guys, so I want to run a PAO oil for my next OCI, but I'm not sure which brands are even really Group IV oils anymore? AmsOil withholds this information as "proprietary". Apparently at least some Motul varieties are hydrocracked according to their MDS sheets. What about Redline?

I'm looking for a 5w-20. This is for my Accord, not a race engine, so it needs to have detergents. What is out there?
 
No oil is 100% PAO to my knowledge. M1 EP is heavily PAO with some esters and other goodies. Amsoil is probably similar to M1 EP.. We think PU and PP is grp 3
 
German Castrol 0W-30 or 0W-40 have a good amount of PAO on them. Much cheaper and easier to find than Amsoil too.
 
Originally Posted By: Linctex
100% has been proven to be a bad idea...

it REALLY excels in some areas, but falls short in others.


Care to elaborate? PAO basestock was literally recommended to me by a real tribologist.

I didn't know M1 EP was high in PAO. I'll probably use that then due to cost effectiveness. Excellent info guys, thanks to all.
 
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs

Care to elaborate? PAO basestock was literally recommended to me by a real tribologist.
I didn't know M1 EP was high in PAO. I'll probably use that then due to cost effectiveness. Excellent info guys, thanks to all.


You can look up Mobil1 Extended Performance EP motor oils, any grade you want, and also other M1 oils like M1 Annual Protection too by looking for
"1-DECENE, HOMOPOLYMER HYDROGENATED", which is PAO, on the search website:
https://www.exxonmobil.com/sds Just type in Annual Protection for example in the search box and download the MSDS.

I've noticed that the M1 EP & Annual Protection products in 0w20 flavor, have a lot of PAO, almost all, like 80% of the base oil in there is PAO (exclusive of the additive package chemicals and possibly esters & Group III base oils mixed in). The other grades in the EP and Ann Prot lines have less PAO than the 0w20 ones.
 
Old time it was a problem, but modern time tested formulas have zero issues. Seal swell and such things. I have been using redline for 5 years in my truck to prevent ticking other oils had me living with, I cut my filter open religiously, no issues even though I am on a 2 year OCI with uoa's. I only put 5k miles a year on the truck is why, but filters always look good. Going to do my oil change soon, 2 years on a Royal Purple synthetic media filter and I am expecting no issues like I did on the last one I cut open at 14 months, but we will see.
 
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Care to elaborate? PAO basestock was literally recommended to me by a real tribologist.

100% leaves no room for additives.
wink.gif
In reality, blending in a bit of other base stocks for solubility and seal compatibility has value.
 
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs

Care to elaborate? PAO basestock was literally recommended to me by a real tribologist.


It's been a while.... I seem to recall that it was an excellent lubricant, but couldn't handle the contamination presented to it very well.

Oils have to do more than just lubricate...
They clean, cool, be miscible with additives, carry away particles, avoid oxidization, not get overly acidic, etc. etc etc.

Oils "wet" the surface of metal parts. If they are a great lubricant but won't stick, what good are they?

I don't think anyone sells 100% PAO in a bottle.
 
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Hey guys, so I want to run a PAO oil for my next OCI, but I'm not sure which brands are even really Group IV oils anymore? AmsOil withholds this information as "proprietary". Apparently at least some Motul varieties are hydrocracked according to their MDS sheets. What about Redline?

I'm looking for a 5w-20. This is for my Accord, not a race engine, so it needs to have detergents. What is out there?


You never mentioned your OCI lengths.
You could run NAPA synthetic for the next 300K in that Honda and sleep like a baby. What matters-most is how often that oil gets changed.
 
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Hey guys, so I want to run a PAO oil for my next OCI, but I'm not sure which brands are even really Group IV oils anymore? AmsOil withholds this information as "proprietary". Apparently at least some Motul varieties are hydrocracked according to their MDS sheets. What about Redline?

I'm looking for a 5w-20. This is for my Accord, not a race engine, so it needs to have detergents. What is out there?


You never mentioned your OCI lengths.
You could run NAPA synthetic for the next 300K in that Honda and sleep like a baby. What matters-most is how often that oil gets changed.


Yes but wouldn't you feel guilty spending $17.45 a 5 quart jug vs $24.97 to $47.95 plus?
 
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