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#4616884 - 12/28/17 03:52 PM Big Bore Bah Humbug!
bigj_16 Offline


Registered: 07/03/17
Posts: 1271
Loc: Douglas County, Colorado
I was just doing a little poking around on Gallery of Guns. Now, this is just a casual look at one distributor, and I know they don't carry everything. But, it looks as if, with one major exception, if you want a high powered rifle above .30 cal, you're going to have a very limited selection. The .325 WSM, .338 RCM, .338 Federal, .35 Whelen, .375 H&H, .375 Ruger, .416 Ruger, either aren't around or have just a couple of rifles available. The huge exception is the .338 Win Mag, obviously.
I wonder if this is due to the advances in bullet construction?


Edited by bigj_16 (12/28/17 03:53 PM)

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#4616942 - 12/28/17 05:00 PM Re: Big Bore Bah Humbug! [Re: bigj_16]
billt460 Online   content


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4416
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
The big African calibers don't sell all that well. And they're expensive to both buy and feed. The last time I priced .460 Weatherby Magnum it was right around $175.00 a box of 20. That comes to almost $9 bucks a pop after tax. The .416 Rigby is more expensive than that. I can shoot my .50 BMG for $2.75 a round. Even .300 Weatherby Magnum can go for over $60.00 a box if loaded with premium bullets.

The .223 and .308 are the big sellers. And the .300 Win. Mag., if anyone needs or wants anything more powerful than that. The .300 Win. Mag. sells well, and it will drop anything that walks in North America, and everything except the Big 5 in Africa. And that is only because of the .40 caliber laws many African nations have in place on dangerous game.

The short fat Winchester Magnums, and the Ruger and Federal Magnums are all going the way of the Remington SAUMS. It was too much of a good thing, all at the same time. The existing long action belted Magnums, (.300 and .338 Win. Mag.), have a good foothold in the market, and have a good track record both here, and in Africa. And they have been around for decades. And a lot of hunters who already have a .300 Win. or .300 Weatherby Magnum, aren't going to need or want another one. Winchester lost their rears with all of their short fat Magnums, in the law suit Rick Jameson brought against them. And they were forced to pay him royalties on every gun they sold in those calibers. Jameson was able to retire off it in grand fashion. Most every rifle I've seen chambered in any of these short fat Magnums was, and continues to be heavily discounted. Much like the .40 S&W, they're all dying.

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#4616952 - 12/28/17 05:14 PM Re: Big Bore Bah Humbug! [Re: bigj_16]
bigj_16 Offline


Registered: 07/03/17
Posts: 1271
Loc: Douglas County, Colorado
I get the Africans and the Weatherby's. But 10-12 years ago the short Mags were the hot thing. There were even some .35 Whelens running around. I guess when you get down to it, there is not a whole lot the .338 Win Mag can't do, it has been around a long time, and is probably about the upper limit of a lot of folks recoil tolerance.

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#4616967 - 12/28/17 05:37 PM Re: Big Bore Bah Humbug! [Re: bigj_16]
Boomer Offline


Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1934
Loc: Pennsylvania
Try the old tried and true .45-70. A bit pricey to shoot if you don't handload but with the modern 350 grain Hornady rounds with the conical plastic tip or even the old flat nosed 500 grain lead rounds, you can probably drop any thing that walks. And it is a very accurate round.
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#4616971 - 12/28/17 05:42 PM Re: Big Bore Bah Humbug! [Re: bigj_16]
bigj_16 Offline


Registered: 07/03/17
Posts: 1271
Loc: Douglas County, Colorado
Major respect for the 45/70. I was thinking CO elk, though. Something a little flatter shooting.

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#4616975 - 12/28/17 05:44 PM Re: Big Bore Bah Humbug! [Re: bigj_16]
Cujet Offline


Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 7164
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
I have a 50 beowulf. That's a really fun gun to shoot. Packs quite a wallop.
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#4616999 - 12/28/17 06:09 PM Re: Big Bore Bah Humbug! [Re: bigj_16]
billt460 Online   content


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4416
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
I get the Africans and the Weatherby's. But 10-12 years ago the short Mags were the hot thing. There were even some .35 Whelens running around. I guess when you get down to it, there is not a whole lot the .338 Win Mag can't do, it has been around a long time, and is probably about the upper limit of a lot of folks recoil tolerance.


Another thing with the short fat wonders, was they tried to sell the short action, along with the fact it was a beltless case as some big advantage. Personally in over 40 years of shooting, I've never had an issue with either a belted case, or a long action cartridge. I might buy into the whole shorter powder column deal for better accuracy. But in a hunting rifle, it really isn't going to matter. Besides, all 3 of my .300 Win. Mag. rifles are some of the most accurate rifles I own. And the .300 Win. Mag. has won more than it's share of 1,000 yard matches through the years.

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#4617005 - 12/28/17 06:15 PM Re: Big Bore Bah Humbug! [Re: bigj_16]
bigj_16 Offline


Registered: 07/03/17
Posts: 1271
Loc: Douglas County, Colorado
The .300 Mag always caught it for its short neck, and it turns out it didn't matter.

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#4617140 - 12/28/17 08:27 PM Re: Big Bore Bah Humbug! [Re: bigj_16]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 41804
Loc: New Jersey
The cost is atrocious. Even if you want to spend money shooting, you can do so much more with another caliber.

Add to that the fact that in populated areas, you don't often get further than 200yd ranges. My range is 200, and iirc its the longest in a decent area around. Even in the friendlier state of PA only one or two public ranges are 300yd, most are 50-200. So consider that some huge fraction of the public can only access such facilities, and why do it? If you need the right tool for the job, by all means, absolutely, but it's just not, imo...

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#4617178 - 12/28/17 08:58 PM Re: Big Bore Bah Humbug! [Re: JHZR2]
john_pifer Offline


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 1971
Loc: Nashville, TN via Memphis
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
The cost is atrocious. Even if you want to spend money shooting, you can do so much more with another caliber.

Add to that the fact that in populated areas, you don't often get further than 200yd ranges. My range is 200, and iirc its the longest in a decent area around. Even in the friendlier state of PA only one or two public ranges are 300yd, most are 50-200. So consider that some huge fraction of the public can only access such facilities, and why do it? If you need the right tool for the job, by all means, absolutely, but it's just not, imo...


He's in Colorado.
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#4617189 - 12/28/17 09:04 PM Re: Big Bore Bah Humbug! [Re: bigj_16]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5528
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
The OP is in Colorado. He can glass stuff 1/2 mile away. In that scenario, I'd prolly be hand loading the 45-70 (for component availability) or the 375 H&H. But Colorado clear high mountain air and cross canyon shots might want more ...

However, the chase starting to 500+ yds for a wounded animal is not trivial at all frown
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#4617266 - 12/28/17 10:08 PM Re: Big Bore Bah Humbug! [Re: bigj_16]
bigj_16 Offline


Registered: 07/03/17
Posts: 1271
Loc: Douglas County, Colorado
I grew up in the Appalachians, and hunted Whitetail through the 1993 season(Maryland and Pennsylvania). Most of the places I hunted, a long shot would have been 35 yards. Out here it about as opposite from that as you can get. Eastern high plains are a long shot. The foothills or mountains can be a long shot. Not a lot of vegetation.

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#4617484 - 12/29/17 08:03 AM Re: Big Bore Bah Humbug! [Re: bigj_16]
Astro14 Offline


Registered: 10/10/10
Posts: 8544
Loc: Virginia Beach
We've got a 600 yard range here in VB. nice range. Have to demonstrate proficiency to go in the 600 yard lanes, but the 100, 200, and 300 yard ranges are all available.

Still, even at 600 yards, .308 is fine for punching holes. SA at brought me a Vortex scope for my LR-308. I hope to get it down there once that's mounted up.

Frankly, I'm remiss in getting my K-31 down there now that I've got a scope mounted on it. I'll take the performance of the 7.5 Swiss at that range, too.

Unless I'm trying to bring down an animal/bad guy at that range, I don't see why some killer round is needed.

In fact, now that I think about it, I should get my Trapdoor in on some long range action. The .45-70 isn't a speedy round, but the Buffington sight is good out to 1200 yards...
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#4617497 - 12/29/17 08:21 AM Re: Big Bore Bah Humbug! [Re: Astro14]
billt460 Online   content


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4416
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Astro14
.....Unless I'm trying to bring down an animal/bad guy at that range, I don't see why some killer round is needed.

In fact, now that I think about it, I should get my Trapdoor in on some long range action. The .45-70 isn't a speedy round, but the Buffington sight is good out to 1200 yards...


Flat trajectory is very much over rated. Just ask the long range artillery boys who lob them in from miles away.

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#4617620 - 12/29/17 09:57 AM Re: Big Bore Bah Humbug! [Re: billt460]
ironman_gq Offline


Registered: 04/30/14
Posts: 604
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Astro14
.....Unless I'm trying to bring down an animal/bad guy at that range, I don't see why some killer round is needed.

In fact, now that I think about it, I should get my Trapdoor in on some long range action. The .45-70 isn't a speedy round, but the Buffington sight is good out to 1200 yards...


Flat trajectory is very much over rated. Just ask the long range artillery boys who lob them in from miles away.


It is until you have a cross wind or miscalculate your range slightly, flatter means faster and faster means less time for the environment to affect the bullet. Although a big slow bullet isn't as affected by the wind which is wonderfully demonstrated by the 45-70. There's also the issue when the bullet destabilizes when it goes transonic at longer ranges, that's what really sets the effective range of a round. Any level of precision gets sketchy once a bullet drops below supersonic.
Those artillery guys are really good at getting the calcs right and a big artillery shell cares much less about the wind.

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