Silverado 5.3 - Cold lifter tick - Filter related?

[Mossyoakglock]

I posted a question a few weeks ago about getting an occasional cold lifter tick on my 2008 Silverado. It only does it when it's really cold and been sitting outside for an extended period of time (truck is garage kept). It is an '08 so it is part of the notorious early AFM issue but I have AFM tuned out. I was previously running M1 EP and got no tick but higher consumption than I liked so I switched to PP which I had ran about a year earlier. As soon as I switched I've had the cold lifter tick a handful of times which leads me to believe it's the oil. But, in the thread it was mentioned that it could be the Wix filter (or just filter related) and it was suggested to go with a filter with a silicone ADBV.

I checked and confirmed with Wix that their ADBV is silicone for my truck. I also confirmed that the Fram Ultra is Silicone. I also have some PF48, pre E-Core's left along with the UPF-48's which are supposed to be identical to the old PF48's internally.

Does anybody know if the AC Delco filters have a silicone or nitrile ADBV? With how the filters are mounted on the 5.3's, could it be the filter that is causing the cold lifter tick?

Also, I ran a Wix filter with the EP and got no tick so that kind of rules out the filter causing it, correct?

It was suggested to try a thicker oil so I've thought about trying Castrol Edge since its CCSV and MRV numbers are a little higher which means thicker, correct? Or should I go with a thinner oil so it flows easier at cold start? PP HM has slightly better numbers than PP.

Suggestions? I know I'm not going to eliminate the consumption but I'd like to solve the cold tick problem.

 

[irv]

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr..._ti#Post4606011

 

[Bxnanaz]

Doubt it’s the wix filter. They could be just a little worn out and leaking down over time with the truck off? I’d personally try changing the oil out with a 0W-30 with the same or another high quality filter. See what that does.

You could also maybe run a few early changes to clean the engine out some if you don’t know the entire history of the truck

 

[krismoriah72]

TSB

#PIP4499A:




Subject:Short Duration Lifter Tick Noise on Cold Start - Aerated Oil in Lifter



Models:2009 Buick Lacrosse Super, Allure Super (Canada Only)

2007 Buick Rainier

2007-2009 Cadillac CTS-V

2007-2009 Cadillac Escalade

2007-2009 Chevrolet Avalanche, Corvette, Express, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe, Trail Blazer

2007-2009 Chevrolet Impala

2007 Chevrolet Monte Carlo

2007-2009 GMC Envoy, Savana, Sierra, Yukon

2007-2009 Hummer H2

2008-2009 Hummer H3

2007-2008 Pontiac Grand Prix

2008-2009 Pontiac G8

2007-2009 Saab 97x

With Any of the Following V8 Engine RPOs:

L76, L92, L9H, LC9, LFA, LH6, LH8, LMG, LMF, LS2, LS3, LS4, LS7, LY2, LY5, or LY6







This PI was superseded to revise repair instructions to include replacing the oil pump and pick-up tube o-ring. Please discard PIP4499.

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:



Some customers may comment on a short duration lifter tick noise that occurs after cold start and can last for several minutes. This may be the result of air in the high pressure chamber of the lifter affecting valve train lash. When this occurs, valve closing velocity is increased, which causes the noise. Air can be present in the lifter at shutdown due to an aerated oil condition, or it can be ingested into the lifter during a cold start from a suction side leak at the oil pump or oil pump pick up tube o-ring. Oil aeration level, oil viscosity, time to achieve oil pressure, engine speed, and lifter design all play a part in whether lifter noise is observed. Once air gets into the high pressure chamber, it will slowly be expelled through the very tight clearance of the plunger and body.

Recommendation/Instructions:



If the SI diagnostics do not isolate the cause of this concern, perform a cylinder power balance test with the Tech 2 while listening to the noise.

If the noise is eliminated, or is greatly improved, each time a specific fuel injector is cancelled, there is most likely a concern with the clearance of the related piston pin or piston to cylinder wall of that cylinder.

If there is no change in the noise when canceling the fuel injectors with the Tech 2 and this noise occurs at valve speed, the noise is most likely a result of air in the lifters as described above. The air may be the result of a suction side leak at the oil pump and/or pick up tube o-ring, or it may be the result of the lifter design.

If this concern is encountered, replace the oil pump and pick up tube o-ring and re-evaluate the noise. If this does not repair the noise, updated lifters will most likely repair the noise but they will not be available until the 4th quarter of 2009. This P.I. will be updated with additional information as soon as they are available. Replacing the lifters with the ones currently in GMSPO stock may not repair the noise.

Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

 

[ChevyMan93]

Originally Posted By: irv
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr..._ti#Post4606011


x2

 

[BigJakeChevy]

Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
TSB

#PIP4499A:




Subject:Short Duration Lifter Tick Noise on Cold Start - Aerated Oil in Lifter



Models:2009 Buick Lacrosse Super, Allure Super (Canada Only)

2007 Buick Rainier

2007-2009 Cadillac CTS-V

2007-2009 Cadillac Escalade

2007-2009 Chevrolet Avalanche, Corvette, Express, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe, Trail Blazer

2007-2009 Chevrolet Impala

2007 Chevrolet Monte Carlo

2007-2009 GMC Envoy, Savana, Sierra, Yukon

2007-2009 Hummer H2

2008-2009 Hummer H3

2007-2008 Pontiac Grand Prix

2008-2009 Pontiac G8

2007-2009 Saab 97x

With Any of the Following V8 Engine RPOs:

L76, L92, L9H, LC9, LFA, LH6, LH8, LMG, LMF, LS2, LS3, LS4, LS7, LY2, LY5, or LY6







This PI was superseded to revise repair instructions to include replacing the oil pump and pick-up tube o-ring. Please discard PIP4499.

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:



Some customers may comment on a short duration lifter tick noise that occurs after cold start and can last for several minutes. This may be the result of air in the high pressure chamber of the lifter affecting valve train lash. When this occurs, valve closing velocity is increased, which causes the noise. Air can be present in the lifter at shutdown due to an aerated oil condition, or it can be ingested into the lifter during a cold start from a suction side leak at the oil pump or oil pump pick up tube o-ring. Oil aeration level, oil viscosity, time to achieve oil pressure, engine speed, and lifter design all play a part in whether lifter noise is observed. Once air gets into the high pressure chamber, it will slowly be expelled through the very tight clearance of the plunger and body.

Recommendation/Instructions:



If the SI diagnostics do not isolate the cause of this concern, perform a cylinder power balance test with the Tech 2 while listening to the noise.

If the noise is eliminated, or is greatly improved, each time a specific fuel injector is cancelled, there is most likely a concern with the clearance of the related piston pin or piston to cylinder wall of that cylinder.

If there is no change in the noise when canceling the fuel injectors with the Tech 2 and this noise occurs at valve speed, the noise is most likely a result of air in the lifters as described above. The air may be the result of a suction side leak at the oil pump and/or pick up tube o-ring, or it may be the result of the lifter design.

If this concern is encountered, replace the oil pump and pick up tube o-ring and re-evaluate the noise. If this does not repair the noise, updated lifters will most likely repair the noise but they will not be available until the 4th quarter of 2009. This P.I. will be updated with additional information as soon as they are available. Replacing the lifters with the ones currently in GMSPO stock may not repair the noise.

Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.


This is what i did, fixed the tick!!

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted By: krismoriah72


TSB#PIP4499A:
Subject:Short Duration Lifter Tick Noise on Cold Start - Aerated Oil in Lifter


I'm pretty sure this is a cancelled TSB & replaced with this...

TECHNICAL

Bulletin No.: 10-06-01-007D

Date: April 10, 2012

Subject: Active Fuel Management (AFM) Engine, Valve Lifter Tick Noise at Start Up When Engine Has Been Off for 2 Hours or More (Evaluate Noise and/or Replace AFM Valve Lifters)

Models:
2007 Buick Rainier
2009 Buick LaCrosse Super, Allure Super (Canada Only)
2007 Cadillac Escalade
Built Prior to April 1, 2006 with 6.2L Engine RPO L92 (These engines were built with AFM Hardware but the AFM system was disabled)

2010-2011 Cadillac Escalade, Escalade ESV, Escalade EXT
2007 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
2007-2009 Chevrolet Impala
2007-2011 Chevrolet Avalanche, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe, TrailBlazer, TrailBlazer EXT
2010-2011 Chevrolet Camaro SS
2007-2011 GMC Envoy, Envoy XL, Sierra, Yukon, Yukon Denali, Yukon XL, Yukon XL Denali
2007-2008 Pontiac Grand Prix
2008-2009 Pontiac G8
2007-2009 Saab 9-7X
Equipped with AFM (Active Fuel Management) and V8 Engine RPO L76, L94, L99, LC9, LFA, LH6, LMG, LS4, LY5 or LZ1

Attention:
This bulletin only applies to the AFM V8 engines listed above. It DOES NOT apply to non-AFM Engines. If you are dealing with a non-AFM engine that is experiencing a similar noise, refer to Engine Mechanical > Diagnostic Information and Procedures > Symptoms in SI.
Supercede:
This bulletin is being revised to update the Correction information by removing the non-AFM valve lifter replacement and removing the non-AFM valve lifter Parts Information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 10-06-01-007C (Section 06 - Engine/Propulsion System).
Condition

Some customers may comment on an engine valve lifter tick noise that occurs after the engine has been shut off for at least two hours. The tick noise may last from two seconds to ten minutes.

Cause

This condition may be caused by any of the following:

- Aerated oil in the valve lifter body, resulting in the valve lifter being unable to purge the air quickly.
- A low engine oil level or incorrect oil viscosity.
- Dirty or contaminated oil.
- A low internal valve lifter oil reservoir level.
- Debris in the valve lifter.
- A high valve lifter leak down rate.
Correction

If the SI diagnostics do not isolate the cause of this valve lifter tick noise and normal oil pressure is noted during the concern, perform the following steps:

1. Inspect the engine oil condition and level. Refer to Owner Manual > Service and Appearance Care > Checking Things Under the Hood > Description and Operation > Engine Oil in SI.
¤ If the engine oil is more than one quart low, an incorrect oil viscosity is being used or if poor quality/contamination is observed, change the oil and filter.
Notice
Allow at least a two hour soak time between engine OFF and start up when evaluating the valve lifter tick noise.
2. Start the engine and evaluate the valve lifter tick noise.
¤ If the valve lifter tick noise is still present, replace all 8 active fuel management (AFM) valve lifters ONLY.
Refer to Valve Lifter Replacement (With AFM) in SI.

 

[Georgiey22]

Had the same issue with my older 5.3L Silverado. Switched away from M1 5W30 and over to M1 0W30 and my tick was eliminated!

 

[burla]

lifter tick

Is there a surprise that with the lower additive oils and thinner oils there have been more instance of lifter tick? Give a hearty based oil with high additives a shot, many guys have seen the same thing, lifter tick giving way to butter smooth operation.

Royal Purple filters also have incredible flow but sacrifice nothing as far as filtering, here .

Each rectangle below is a filter that was placed behind the filter media noted, the whiter the filter, the more the original filter media caught. In other words, any visable contamination is what is rolling around that engine at 30 microns, as you see there is literally no contamination that size that made it through the spun microglass filters, they took all 3 top spots, and another feature of spun microglass is better flow.

I think people that use paper filters must not mind the contamination rolling around their engines, because with Fram Ultra I don't even think cost is much of a consideration. But spend a little more and get a RP filter, nothing at 30 microns will be in that engine.

 

[burla]

Why 30 microns is a critical particle size? Wear can be reduced by 50% by keeping 30 micron stuff out of your engine.


Society Of Automotive Engineers (SAE)
Paper Number 881825 Entitled
"Correlating Lube Oil Filtration Efficiencies
With Engine Wear"

Concludes..

The researchers drew the following conclusions:
Abrasive Engine wear can be substantially reduced with an increase in single pass efficiency. Compared to a 40-Micron filter, Gasoline Engine wear was reduced by 50 percent with 30-Micron filtration. Likewise, wear was reduced by 70 percent with 15-Micron filtration.

 

[Mossyoakglock]

Does the AC Delco PF48 or UPF48 filters have Silicone or Nitrile ADBVs?

I've owned the truck since new and always changed my own oil so I know the history of the truck. I tried M1 0W-30 before but that's been a few years ago. If I remember correctly I got a little smoke at startup with that oil and once I switched, it went away.

How does Castrol Edge compare to PP? Better, worse, the same?

I might try the 0w-30 again and see what happens.

 

[RonRonnster]

Originally Posted By: Mossyoakglock
Does the AC Delco PF48 or UPF48 filters have Silicone or Nitrile ADBVs?


I've had the same question myself, and was curious is the UPF is a better filter. I found this post over at the corvette forum pretty informative (corvettes spec the UPF48 filter)

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c6-...#post1582332944

It appears that the standard PF48 uses either a nitrile or silicone ADBV, depending on where or when the filter was manufactured. The UPF48 appears to have a Silicone ADBV. Both the standard PF (hard to find lately) and the UPF are built much better than the PF48E, in my opinion. I'm going to move away from the standard PF line to the UPF line for both my Yukon and Chev. K1500.

 

[clinebarger]

The UPF48 is a Mobil 1 filter with a different sticker on it.