Thick oil and filter media damage

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I see media damage from some filters here from time to time. Was wondering if oil thicker than recommended by the engine builders could cause media damage as the oil pump is forcing oil through the filter? As you know I tend to use thinner oil and have never seen media damage in one of my filters. Just a thought when I saw the E-Core thread.
 
Should have nothing to do with it. Oil filter, most, have bypass valves. If the pressure increased enough to damage the media then the bypass valve should have already been open well before that.

Either way it shows a bad filter design/manufacture issue.
 
I suppose it's possible, theoretically. But I'd imagine its an El Cheapo or defective oil filters that's to blame in those cases.
 
There are several filters that are in use in vehicles calling for oil ranging from 20 to 40 grade oil, even 50 grade in some cases. So I doubt that would be the cause. A defect or bad filter is just that.
 
If you follow the original Darcy Flow Equation it was based on water flow through a certain permeability (a function of porosity) — modern iterations used by Petroleum Engineers et al would include the effects of viscosity/phase/temps … so there is more resistance and the PD pump is not slowing down. So to Tig’s question it’s possible … but full flow filters and the lube system can bypass briefly and all grades of oil thins at engine operated temperature

Distance is related as well … a short path of resistance (media) is minor compared to ID and lengths of small ID … so “plumbing” has a high parasitic loss … (filters are oversized even when we don’t call them such)
 
At startup in cold weather, your oil is the thickest it will be (ie the 0w, 5w, 10w part). If oil flow through the filter were a problem it would show up there, and not with the "thicker" 10w-40 oil at normal engine operating temps.
 
Originally Posted By: Jimzz

Either way it shows a bad filter design/manufacture issue.


This. It has more to do with manufacturing flaws and inconsistency in the filter media. It can also be caused by using the wrong filter or running a cheap filter for too long.

I did an oil change last night on my sister's 2013 VW Jetta 2.5L, which has a cartridge filter. The dealer she bought it from put in synthetic oil, but used a cheap STP cartridge filter that didn't seem to fit correctly. The oil had about 7,000 miles on it and the filter was crushed with wavy media.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
I see media damage from some filters here from time to time. Was wondering if oil thicker than recommended by the engine builders could cause media damage as the oil pump is forcing oil through the filter?


No, in the past I have seen oil filters last just fine handling 20W-50 oil and 80-100 psi. No tears in any, other than a Fram from the 80's

I am VERY surprised at the tearing media epidemic we have seen the last couple years!
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
I see media damage from some filters here from time to time. Was wondering if oil thicker than recommended by the engine builders could cause media damage as the oil pump is forcing oil through the filter? As you know I tend to use thinner oil and have never seen media damage in one of my filters. Just a thought when I saw the E-Core thread.
Thin, brittle media with poorly engineered pleats (think Purolator), combined with winter temperatures, thick conventional oil, and even moderately high RPMs can cause the tearing issues. I personally haven't had Puros (or old Ecores) with torn media-but I try hard not to push engines hard until they're completely (or at least mostly) warmed up.
 
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: tig1
I see media damage from some filters here from time to time. Was wondering if oil thicker than recommended by the engine builders could cause media damage as the oil pump is forcing oil through the filter?


No, in the past I have seen oil filters last just fine handling 20W-50 oil and 80-100 psi. No tears in any, other than a Fram from the 80's

I am VERY surprised at the tearing media epidemic we have seen the last couple years!


Is there a surge in oil pressure at start in very cold temps? Especially with thicker oils. The oil filter is the first place the oil travels from the oil pump(is that right). On cold starts thick oil can by pass the filter for a time(not good). Can the filter by pass system(OEM filters) be designed for the oil wt. called for by the engine builders?
 
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: tig1
I see media damage from some filters here from time to time. Was wondering if oil thicker than recommended by the engine builders could cause media damage as the oil pump is forcing oil through the filter?


No, in the past I have seen oil filters last just fine handling 20W-50 oil and 80-100 psi. No tears in any, other than a Fram from the 80's

I am VERY surprised at the tearing media epidemic we have seen the last couple years!


Quality control at PUROLATOR as I’ve cut and posted, witnessed is job # 0 that is ZERO. Why I would not use Motorcraft filters at all even if paid to
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: tig1
I see media damage from some filters here from time to time. Was wondering if oil thicker than recommended by the engine builders could cause media damage as the oil pump is forcing oil through the filter?


No, in the past I have seen oil filters last just fine handling 20W-50 oil and 80-100 psi. No tears in any, other than a Fram from the 80's

I am VERY surprised at the tearing media epidemic we have seen the last couple years!


Is there a surge in oil pressure at start in very cold temps? Especially with thicker oils. The oil filter is the first place the oil travels from the oil pump(is that right). On cold starts thick oil can by pass the filter for a time(not good). Can the filter by pass system(OEM filters) be designed for the oil wt. called for by the engine builders?


A filter bypass due to surge will be fairly short … the oil was clean to start with …
If I was worried about filter collapse … I’d be all over a wire backed synthetic … Oh wait, I am …
 
Tig1 - good question. My take is a thicker oil will offer more resistance to flow especially during cold starts. If the filter design and manufacturing implementation is weak or the media is weak, then the weak filter may tear sooner with the thick oil than the thin oil. This is with respect to number of cold starts. Just my opinion.
 
51 - agree ~ From my hands on “messing” with new/used Puro and a few repainted versions … the box was tougher than the media
 
No.

There's a lot of data on the "thick vs. thin" topic in the marine industry. Engines made for 5w30 being started and operated in freezing temps with 20w, 25w, SAE30, and SAE40 oils (hot viscosity being a non-issue here).

No oil filter genocide is occurring.

There are plenty of diesels that start in freezing weather on 15w conventional oil that have 40+psi bypass valves in-block. Oil PSID on one side of the filter has to be greater than 40-50 psi in order to bypass. No filter genocide.

These problems are due to garbage filters and nothing else.
 
Yeah, it's viscosity vs permeability, and or, volume vs permeability ...

HV pumps at 5,500 should destroy media, but they don't... I mostly run oversized filters with HV pumps to make sure there is enough media area to handle the flow w/o going into by-pass ...

I think the tearing issues have to do with weak media (glue joints, crimps, not enough resin, etc.)... Well made filters just don't tear. Baldwin, better WIX and some others seem to hold up fine, no matter what you throw at them.

Filters made to the lowest bid ...
 
Any filter that fails from a delta-p equal to the filter's bypass valve setting or less needs to be sent back to the drawing board.

Only thing a thicker oil or a higher volume oil pump should do is cause the filter's bypass to open sooner.

Also, it's possible that a bad bypass valve (design or functionality in use) could be a factor by not opening at the right delta-p. Or the size of the bypass valve flow area is under sized and can't handle a large bypass flow spike causing a short high delta-p spike across the media. If the media is brittle and weak, a short instantaneous delta-p spike could cause tearing.

Bottom line is the bypass valve's main purpose is to save the filter from damage due to oil flow delta-p, and the guts of the filter better be able to take that delta-p all day long if needed.
 
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