Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30

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What properties would keep M1 10w-30 for instance from meeting Dexos 1? I assume it would strictly be viscosity at cold/hot? 10W-30's usually have a lot lower NOACK than 5w-30's for instance so curious on this cert in particular..

thanks
 
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Originally Posted By: jdavis
I assume it would strictly be viscosity?


Most likely that is the #1 criteria.

Do any 10W-30 meet "Energy Conserving II" ?

I don't think so.
 
Good question...I think GM only wanted 5w30 (and 0/5w20) to meet Dexos 1. It's just part of the trend away from thicker oil, both for CAFE reasons and for cold start protection. Our 2006 GM product (pre-dexos) and 2010 Toyota product both spec 5w30, 10w30 was becoming less commonly specced at that point. But in slightly older engines (as recently as 2003), GM specced 10w30 all the way to 0 degrees! Now, do I use 10w30 here in Minnesota? Nope. (It is forecast to be -13 later this week). Would I ignore Dexos and use 10w30 in a 5w30 engine if I lived in Texas or Florida? Maybe so.

Moral of the story- I'd use it if I wanted to (and lived in an appropriate climate), but know that it didn't meet spec and warranty might be in jeopardy. Hope this helps.
 
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: jdavis
I assume it would strictly be viscosity?


Most likely that is the #1 criteria.

Do any 10W-30 meet "Energy Conserving II" ?

I don't think so.

PP is RC rated.
 
I think that it is simply due to the fact that M1 10w30, or any 10w30 for that matter, are not being tested for dexos1 certification due to 10w30's not being a recommend oil for engines requiring dexos1 certified motor oils.
 
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Originally Posted By: Char Baby
I think that it is simply due to the fact that M1 10w30, or any 10w30 for that matter, are not being tested for dexos1 certification due to 10w30's not being a recommend oil for engines requiring dexos1 certified motor oils.


I agree w this
 
I feel confident that M1 10W-30 could pass all the Dexos1 test and quality requirements. It's simply that GM require their 30 grade oil to be a 5W-30 viscosity oil. It works for most people (wrt cold starting) and simplifies ownership for non-oil people.
 
I guess I was confused...


https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=110708

Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Not sure this helps, but:

From one website (dated early 90s):

Engine oils categorized as Energy Conserving are formulated to improve the fuel economy of passenger cars, vans and light-duty trucks. These oils have produced a fuel economy improvement of 1.5 percent or greater over a standard reference oil in a standard test procedure. Oils meeting this requirement display the Energy Conserving label in the lower portion of the doughnut-shaped API Service Symbol.

Engine oils categorized as Energy Conserving II are formulated to improve the fuel economy of passenger cars, vans and light-duty trucks. These oils have produced a fuel economy improvement of 2.7 percent or greater over a standard reference oil in a standard test procedure. Oils meeting this requirement display the Energy Conserving II label in the lower portion of the doughnut-shaped API Service Symbol.

From another website:

After August1, 1997 only SJ oils will be designated as "Energy Conserving". The test for SH in combination with "Energy Conserving" and "Energy Conserving II" will not exist.


It's the chicken & egg...

GM needs to build fuel efficient engines.
These new engines must use thinner oil to meet efficiency ("Let's create 'Dexos' ')
If it is made a requirement, people fear engine damage on "non-Dexos approved" oils..
People won't necessarily buy it for fuel economy, but if it is MANDATED, they'll buy it out of fear.
 
I don’t own any gm product. I won’t buy a product with “Dexos”on the label, instant no buy.
Loooking at delo le and SD n 5w30and 10w30f flavors. Redline and many of the 10w30pcmo options and Motorcraft.
 
Originally Posted By: Linctex
GM needs to build fuel efficient engines.
These new engines must use thinner oil to meet efficiency ("Let's create 'Dexos' ')
If it is made a requirement, people fear engine damage on "non-Dexos approved" oils..
People won't necessarily buy it for fuel economy, but if it is MANDATED, they'll buy it out of fear.

In retrospect, though, GM has specified resource conserving oils since they came out. Also, 0w-20 can be chosen irrespective of dexos1, and that's done with many manufacturers. GM has also had its own proprietary specification for motor oil for a lot of years.

The only thing that's changed from a customer perspective is the logo on the bottle, rather than a simple GM number buried in the fine print on the back, and Vettes being able to use blends rather than synthetics, and "regular" vehicles calling for at a minimum blends rather than conventional, along with longer OCIs.
 
Yep ~ I have more respect for GM’s approach to lubricants than some of the others … and looking for Dexos is like hunting sand on the beach … it’s everywhere and cheap …

Can’t say Dexron has not been an effective standard either …
 
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi


The 5W30 is tested at temps 5C (9F) lower than the 10W30 for both MRV and CCS...what is interesting here?


Point is there is marginal difference there.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak


The only thing that's changed from a customer perspective is the logo on the bottle, rather than a simple GM number buried in the fine print on the back, and Vettes being able to use blends rather than synthetics, and "regular" vehicles calling for at a minimum blends rather than conventional, along with longer OCIs.


It's kind of nice that GM actually puts out a standard they want in their engines as far as oil goes - I'm talking quality here not just profit reasons.
 
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Originally Posted By: 4WD
Yep ~ I have more respect for GM’s approach to lubricants than some of the others … and looking for Dexos is like hunting sand on the beach … it’s everywhere and cheap …

Can’t say Dexron has not been an effective standard either …


This...
 
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
I don’t own any gm product. I won’t buy a product with “Dexos”on the label, instant no buy.
Loooking at delo le and SD n 5w30and 10w30f flavors. Redline and many of the 10w30pcmo options and Motorcraft.


Interesting mix of thoughts
 
Originally Posted By: jdavis
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi


The 5W30 is tested at temps 5C (9F) lower than the 10W30 for both MRV and CCS...what is interesting here?


Point is there is marginal difference there.


A rule of thumb that has been tossed around here a lot is that viscosity at low temps will double with every 5C drop.
Given that the 5W30 and 10W30 being discussed have similar CCS viscosities at -30C/-25C, the 10W30 will probably be about twice as thick as the 5W30 at -30C.
If you never get down near -30C/-22F, you probably don't care too much. If you do deal with the cold, twice as thick could be a big issue.

Even within a grade, there can be a good spread of performance. Plenty of synthetic 5W30s will flirt with maybe 6000cP in the CCS test at -30C, but the Pennzoil Gold 5W30 I just poured in my car came in around 3500cP...I like that given that we're already flirting with -20F at my ski condo in December. Maybe it won't make one bit of difference to me this season, but I like to play the percentages. Was thinking about running a 0W30 this winter, but couldn't find one that was dexos1 Gen 2 (for LSPI testing).
 
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