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#4614441 - 12/26/17 08:30 AM Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30
jdavis Offline


Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 675
Loc: New England
What properties would keep M1 10w-30 for instance from meeting Dexos 1? I assume it would strictly be viscosity at cold/hot? 10W-30's usually have a lot lower NOACK than 5w-30's for instance so curious on this cert in particular..

thanks


Edited by jdavis (12/26/17 08:30 AM)

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#4614460 - 12/26/17 08:49 AM Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: jdavis]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: jdavis
I assume it would strictly be viscosity?


Most likely that is the #1 criteria.

Do any 10W-30 meet "Energy Conserving II" ?

I don't think so.
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4614461 - 12/26/17 08:50 AM Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: jdavis]
TmanP Offline


Registered: 10/30/15
Posts: 436
Loc: MN
Good question...I think GM only wanted 5w30 (and 0/5w20) to meet Dexos 1. It's just part of the trend away from thicker oil, both for CAFE reasons and for cold start protection. Our 2006 GM product (pre-dexos) and 2010 Toyota product both spec 5w30, 10w30 was becoming less commonly specced at that point. But in slightly older engines (as recently as 2003), GM specced 10w30 all the way to 0 degrees! Now, do I use 10w30 here in Minnesota? Nope. (It is forecast to be -13 later this week). Would I ignore Dexos and use 10w30 in a 5w30 engine if I lived in Texas or Florida? Maybe so.

Moral of the story- I'd use it if I wanted to (and lived in an appropriate climate), but know that it didn't meet spec and warranty might be in jeopardy. Hope this helps.
_________________________
2006 Buick Lacrosse 3.8 V6 150,000 mi
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#4614493 - 12/26/17 09:24 AM Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: Linctex]
Dyusik Offline


Registered: 09/26/14
Posts: 1982
Loc: US-WA
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: jdavis
I assume it would strictly be viscosity?


Most likely that is the #1 criteria.

Do any 10W-30 meet "Energy Conserving II" ?

I don't think so.

PP is RC rated.
_________________________
95 Cherokee 190K DELO 10W30,XG8
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14 RX450h 30k PP 0w20,NAPAG

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#4614532 - 12/26/17 10:15 AM Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: Dyusik]
wemay Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8880
Loc: Southeast Florida
There are many 10w30 RC oils.
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#4614735 - 12/26/17 01:45 PM Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: jdavis]
Char Baby Online   content


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 10022
Loc: ROCHESTER, NY
I think that it is simply due to the fact that M1 10w30, or any 10w30 for that matter, are not being tested for dexos1 certification due to 10w30's not being a recommend oil for engines requiring dexos1 certified motor oils.


Edited by Char Baby (12/26/17 01:47 PM)
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#4614750 - 12/26/17 02:06 PM Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: Char Baby]
barkingspider Offline


Registered: 12/22/13
Posts: 2048
Loc: socal
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
I think that it is simply due to the fact that M1 10w30, or any 10w30 for that matter, are not being tested for dexos1 certification due to 10w30's not being a recommend oil for engines requiring dexos1 certified motor oils.


I agree w this
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#4614808 - 12/26/17 03:17 PM Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: jdavis]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24574
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
GM's requirement includes viscosity, simply. 10w-30 is not a dexos1 viscosity. The first number has to be a "5w" or a "0w", so it loses right away.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#4614853 - 12/26/17 04:11 PM Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: jdavis]
SR5 Offline


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4462
Loc: Down Under
I feel confident that M1 10W-30 could pass all the Dexos1 test and quality requirements. It's simply that GM require their 30 grade oil to be a 5W-30 viscosity oil. It works for most people (wrt cold starting) and simplifies ownership for non-oil people.
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#4615024 - 12/26/17 06:45 PM Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: jdavis]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
I guess I was confused...


https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=110708

Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Not sure this helps, but:

From one website (dated early 90s):

Engine oils categorized as Energy Conserving are formulated to improve the fuel economy of passenger cars, vans and light-duty trucks. These oils have produced a fuel economy improvement of 1.5 percent or greater over a standard reference oil in a standard test procedure. Oils meeting this requirement display the Energy Conserving label in the lower portion of the doughnut-shaped API Service Symbol.

Engine oils categorized as Energy Conserving II are formulated to improve the fuel economy of passenger cars, vans and light-duty trucks. These oils have produced a fuel economy improvement of 2.7 percent or greater over a standard reference oil in a standard test procedure. Oils meeting this requirement display the Energy Conserving II label in the lower portion of the doughnut-shaped API Service Symbol.

From another website:

After August1, 1997 only SJ oils will be designated as "Energy Conserving". The test for SH in combination with "Energy Conserving" and "Energy Conserving II" will not exist.


It's the chicken & egg...

GM needs to build fuel efficient engines.
These new engines must use thinner oil to meet efficiency ("Let's create 'Dexos' ')
If it is made a requirement, people fear engine damage on "non-Dexos approved" oils..
People won't necessarily buy it for fuel economy, but if it is MANDATED, they'll buy it out of fear.
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4615032 - 12/26/17 06:53 PM Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: Linctex]
Bryanccfshr Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 5717
Loc: Durango, Co
I don’t own any gm product. I won’t buy a product with “Dexos”on the label, instant no buy.
Loooking at delo le and SD n 5w30and 10w30f flavors. Redline and many of the 10w30pcmo options and Motorcraft.
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2018 Trd Pro 4Runner M1 0w40
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#4615059 - 12/26/17 07:14 PM Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: jdavis]
jdavis Offline


Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 675
Loc: New England

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#4615189 - 12/26/17 09:08 PM Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: jdavis]
Virtus_Probi Offline


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 3970
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: jdavis


The 5W30 is tested at temps 5C (9F) lower than the 10W30 for both MRV and CCS...what is interesting here?
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#4615311 - 12/27/17 01:47 AM Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: Linctex]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24574
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Linctex
GM needs to build fuel efficient engines.
These new engines must use thinner oil to meet efficiency ("Let's create 'Dexos' ')
If it is made a requirement, people fear engine damage on "non-Dexos approved" oils..
People won't necessarily buy it for fuel economy, but if it is MANDATED, they'll buy it out of fear.

In retrospect, though, GM has specified resource conserving oils since they came out. Also, 0w-20 can be chosen irrespective of dexos1, and that's done with many manufacturers. GM has also had its own proprietary specification for motor oil for a lot of years.

The only thing that's changed from a customer perspective is the logo on the bottle, rather than a simple GM number buried in the fine print on the back, and Vettes being able to use blends rather than synthetics, and "regular" vehicles calling for at a minimum blends rather than conventional, along with longer OCIs.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#4615325 - 12/27/17 02:40 AM Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: Garak]
4WD Offline


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 6374
Loc: Texas
Yep ~ I have more respect for GM’s approach to lubricants than some of the others … and looking for Dexos is like hunting sand on the beach … it’s everywhere and cheap …

Can’t say Dexron has not been an effective standard either …

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