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Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 #4614441
12/26/17 09:30 AM
12/26/17 09:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 677
New England
jdavis Offline OP
jdavis  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 677
New England
What properties would keep M1 10w-30 for instance from meeting Dexos 1? I assume it would strictly be viscosity at cold/hot? 10W-30's usually have a lot lower NOACK than 5w-30's for instance so curious on this cert in particular..

thanks

Last edited by jdavis; 12/26/17 09:30 AM.
Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: jdavis] #4614460
12/26/17 09:49 AM
12/26/17 09:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,241
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,241
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: jdavis
I assume it would strictly be viscosity?


Most likely that is the #1 criteria.

Do any 10W-30 meet "Energy Conserving II" ?

I don't think so.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: jdavis] #4614461
12/26/17 09:50 AM
12/26/17 09:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 440
MN
TmanP Offline
TmanP  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 440
MN
Good question...I think GM only wanted 5w30 (and 0/5w20) to meet Dexos 1. It's just part of the trend away from thicker oil, both for CAFE reasons and for cold start protection. Our 2006 GM product (pre-dexos) and 2010 Toyota product both spec 5w30, 10w30 was becoming less commonly specced at that point. But in slightly older engines (as recently as 2003), GM specced 10w30 all the way to 0 degrees! Now, do I use 10w30 here in Minnesota? Nope. (It is forecast to be -13 later this week). Would I ignore Dexos and use 10w30 in a 5w30 engine if I lived in Texas or Florida? Maybe so.

Moral of the story- I'd use it if I wanted to (and lived in an appropriate climate), but know that it didn't meet spec and warranty might be in jeopardy. Hope this helps.


2012 Toyota Camry 2.5 30,000 mi
2015 Chevy Silverado LT Z71 5.3 V8 30,000 mi
2010 Toyota Sienna 3.5 V6 150,000 mi
Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: Linctex] #4614493
12/26/17 10:24 AM
12/26/17 10:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,097
US-WA
Dyusik Offline
Dyusik  Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,097
US-WA
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: jdavis
I assume it would strictly be viscosity?


Most likely that is the #1 criteria.

Do any 10W-30 meet "Energy Conserving II" ?

I don't think so.

PP is RC rated.


95 Cherokee 190K DELO 10W30, XG8
07 IS250 100K Napa 10w30, FULL
04 YZF-R1 19K DELO 15w40, XG7317
99 HD XL1200S 20K VR1 20w50, NG1515
14 RX450h 33k PP MIX, NG7047
Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: Dyusik] #4614532
12/26/17 11:15 AM
12/26/17 11:15 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,386
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,386
Kendall, FL
There are many 10w30 RC oils.


'18 KIA Sportage LX AWD 2.4L: MSS 10w30
'13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: EDGE 5w30
Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: jdavis] #4614735
12/26/17 02:45 PM
12/26/17 02:45 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,280
ROCHESTER, NY
Char Baby Offline
Char Baby  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,280
ROCHESTER, NY
I think that it is simply due to the fact that M1 10w30, or any 10w30 for that matter, are not being tested for dexos1 certification due to 10w30's not being a recommend oil for engines requiring dexos1 certified motor oils.

Last edited by Char Baby; 12/26/17 02:47 PM.

"Retired"
-----------------------------------

'80 Firebird FORMULA V8/4bbl-purchased "NEW"
'15 Nissan Altima 2.5 SV
'15 Honda Civic LX(17K)
Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: Char Baby] #4614750
12/26/17 03:06 PM
12/26/17 03:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,088
socal
barkingspider Offline
barkingspider  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,088
socal
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
I think that it is simply due to the fact that M1 10w30, or any 10w30 for that matter, are not being tested for dexos1 certification due to 10w30's not being a recommend oil for engines requiring dexos1 certified motor oils.


I agree w this


06 Cadillac Escalade Ext
17 Cadillac ATS (wife)
05 Toyota Camry (daughter)
11 GMC Canyon off-road (daily)
Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: jdavis] #4614808
12/26/17 04:17 PM
12/26/17 04:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,385
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,385
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
GM's requirement includes viscosity, simply. 10w-30 is not a dexos1 viscosity. The first number has to be a "5w" or a "0w", so it loses right away.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: jdavis] #4614853
12/26/17 05:11 PM
12/26/17 05:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
I feel confident that M1 10W-30 could pass all the Dexos1 test and quality requirements. It's simply that GM require their 30 grade oil to be a 5W-30 viscosity oil. It works for most people (wrt cold starting) and simplifies ownership for non-oil people.


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: jdavis] #4615024
12/26/17 07:45 PM
12/26/17 07:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,241
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,241
Waco, TX
I guess I was confused...


https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=110708

Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Not sure this helps, but:

From one website (dated early 90s):

Engine oils categorized as Energy Conserving are formulated to improve the fuel economy of passenger cars, vans and light-duty trucks. These oils have produced a fuel economy improvement of 1.5 percent or greater over a standard reference oil in a standard test procedure. Oils meeting this requirement display the Energy Conserving label in the lower portion of the doughnut-shaped API Service Symbol.

Engine oils categorized as Energy Conserving II are formulated to improve the fuel economy of passenger cars, vans and light-duty trucks. These oils have produced a fuel economy improvement of 2.7 percent or greater over a standard reference oil in a standard test procedure. Oils meeting this requirement display the Energy Conserving II label in the lower portion of the doughnut-shaped API Service Symbol.

From another website:

After August1, 1997 only SJ oils will be designated as "Energy Conserving". The test for SH in combination with "Energy Conserving" and "Energy Conserving II" will not exist.


It's the chicken & egg...

GM needs to build fuel efficient engines.
These new engines must use thinner oil to meet efficiency ("Let's create 'Dexos' ')
If it is made a requirement, people fear engine damage on "non-Dexos approved" oils..
People won't necessarily buy it for fuel economy, but if it is MANDATED, they'll buy it out of fear.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: Linctex] #4615032
12/26/17 07:53 PM
12/26/17 07:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,734
Texas, Mentone for work, Galve...
Bryanccfshr Offline
Bryanccfshr  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,734
Texas, Mentone for work, Galve...
I don’t own any gm product. I won’t buy a product with “Dexos”on the label, instant no buy.
Loooking at delo le and SD n 5w30and 10w30f flavors. Redline and many of the 10w30pcmo options and Motorcraft.


2018 Trd Pro 4Runner M1 0w40
2018 Tacoma off-road Castrol 5w30 Magnatec
Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: jdavis] #4615059
12/26/17 08:14 PM
12/26/17 08:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 677
New England
jdavis Offline OP
jdavis  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 677
New England

Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: jdavis] #4615189
12/26/17 10:08 PM
12/26/17 10:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Originally Posted By: jdavis


The 5W30 is tested at temps 5C (9F) lower than the 10W30 for both MRV and CCS...what is interesting here?


2014 Forester XT, 86000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: Linctex] #4615311
12/27/17 02:47 AM
12/27/17 02:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,385
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,385
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Linctex
GM needs to build fuel efficient engines.
These new engines must use thinner oil to meet efficiency ("Let's create 'Dexos' ')
If it is made a requirement, people fear engine damage on "non-Dexos approved" oils..
People won't necessarily buy it for fuel economy, but if it is MANDATED, they'll buy it out of fear.

In retrospect, though, GM has specified resource conserving oils since they came out. Also, 0w-20 can be chosen irrespective of dexos1, and that's done with many manufacturers. GM has also had its own proprietary specification for motor oil for a lot of years.

The only thing that's changed from a customer perspective is the logo on the bottle, rather than a simple GM number buried in the fine print on the back, and Vettes being able to use blends rather than synthetics, and "regular" vehicles calling for at a minimum blends rather than conventional, along with longer OCIs.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Dexos1 requirements and 10w-30 [Re: Garak] #4615325
12/27/17 03:40 AM
12/27/17 03:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,000
Texas
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,000
Texas
Yep ~ I have more respect for GM’s approach to lubricants than some of the others … and looking for Dexos is like hunting sand on the beach … it’s everywhere and cheap …

Can’t say Dexron has not been an effective standard either …

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