Recent Topics
Strange tire failure - w picture
by Cressida. 12/10/18 06:10 PM
Looking for a budget steam cleaner
by 2008wrx. 12/10/18 05:04 PM
3.3 V-6 in 2017-18 Santa Fe engine concerns?
by blupupher. 12/10/18 05:00 PM
(NEW) NAPA ProSelect 21060 Cut Open
by rooflessVW. 12/10/18 04:19 PM
True or false
by 53' Stude. 12/10/18 04:15 PM
First repair on Jeep
by OVERKILL. 12/10/18 03:06 PM
Eureka vacuum beater bar
by Donald. 12/10/18 03:04 PM
Talk about keeping ones lungs clear
by BMWTurboDzl. 12/10/18 01:50 PM
Notorious Parts
by DoubleWasp. 12/10/18 01:04 PM
2007 Yaris no oil when draining
by Audios. 12/10/18 12:10 PM
Raptor 700- M1 vs. T4
by Torch94. 12/10/18 11:38 AM
Unusual 75W-90 Cold Specs
by badtlc. 12/10/18 10:39 AM
BITOG Mobile Login
by RamFan. 12/10/18 10:20 AM
Rehab cast iron cornbread mold
by bcossa2001. 12/10/18 07:58 AM
Beware Youtube
by SilverFusion2010. 12/10/18 06:35 AM
Newest Members
Maputocar, ESTEBAN, Torch94, EvilFox, Hawkerpilot05
66643 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
104 registered members (14Accent, ARB1977, 69GTX, Anthony, 2strokeNorthstar, 9 invisible), 2,035 guests, and 40 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics294,885
Posts4,923,741
Members66,643
Most Online2,553
Oct 27th, 2018
Donate to BITOG
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Thick oil and filter media damage #4614413
12/26/17 07:36 AM
12/26/17 07:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,974
Illinois
tig1 Offline OP
tig1  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,974
Illinois
I see media damage from some filters here from time to time. Was wondering if oil thicker than recommended by the engine builders could cause media damage as the oil pump is forcing oil through the filter? As you know I tend to use thinner oil and have never seen media damage in one of my filters. Just a thought when I saw the E-Core thread.


2007 Ford Fusion 235,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 60K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: tig1] #4614416
12/26/17 07:38 AM
12/26/17 07:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,346
NoVA
Jimzz Offline
Jimzz  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,346
NoVA
Should have nothing to do with it. Oil filter, most, have bypass valves. If the pressure increased enough to damage the media then the bypass valve should have already been open well before that.

Either way it shows a bad filter design/manufacture issue.


yup
Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: tig1] #4614417
12/26/17 07:39 AM
12/26/17 07:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,410
Florida
Artem Offline
Artem  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,410
Florida
I suppose it's possible, theoretically. But I'd imagine its an El Cheapo or defective oil filters that's to blame in those cases.


2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart. (thanks Advance Auto Parts for the awesome deal)
Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: tig1] #4614420
12/26/17 07:44 AM
12/26/17 07:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,963
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,963
NY
There are several filters that are in use in vehicles calling for oil ranging from 20 to 40 grade oil, even 50 grade in some cases. So I doubt that would be the cause. A defect or bad filter is just that.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: tig1] #4614421
12/26/17 07:46 AM
12/26/17 07:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,507
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Offline
JohnnyJohnson  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,507
Wet side WA
Finer micron filtering it seems there could be some logic to that especially in colder weather.

Last edited by JohnnyJohnson; 12/26/17 07:46 AM.

2004 Corolla 126649
Out: VML 5w-30 TG4967 OCI 5007 Miles
In: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 122537 7-18-18
2006 Duramax 74478
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73705 4-22-18
Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: tig1] #4614428
12/26/17 08:00 AM
12/26/17 08:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,475
Texas & Global
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,475
Texas & Global
If you follow the original Darcy Flow Equation it was based on water flow through a certain permeability (a function of porosity) — modern iterations used by Petroleum Engineers et al would include the effects of viscosity/phase/temps … so there is more resistance and the PD pump is not slowing down. So to Tig’s question it’s possible … but full flow filters and the lube system can bypass briefly and all grades of oil thins at engine operated temperature

Distance is related as well … a short path of resistance (media) is minor compared to ID and lengths of small ID … so “plumbing” has a high parasitic loss … (filters are oversized even when we don’t call them such)


2018 Chevy 1500 Z71 4WD
2017 Chevy Tahoe LT 4WD
2014 Fusion Hybrid Titanium
2013 Cruze LTZ - RS Turbo
Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: tig1] #4614440
12/26/17 08:26 AM
12/26/17 08:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,937
Connecticut
69GTX Online content
69GTX  Online Content
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,937
Connecticut
At startup in cold weather, your oil is the thickest it will be (ie the 0w, 5w, 10w part). If oil flow through the filter were a problem it would show up there, and not with the "thicker" 10w-40 oil at normal engine operating temps.


----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 39K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs
Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: Jimzz] #4614445
12/26/17 08:34 AM
12/26/17 08:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,547
Storrs, Connecticut
jeepman3071 Offline
jeepman3071  Offline
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,547
Storrs, Connecticut
Originally Posted By: Jimzz

Either way it shows a bad filter design/manufacture issue.


This. It has more to do with manufacturing flaws and inconsistency in the filter media. It can also be caused by using the wrong filter or running a cheap filter for too long.

I did an oil change last night on my sister's 2013 VW Jetta 2.5L, which has a cartridge filter. The dealer she bought it from put in synthetic oil, but used a cheap STP cartridge filter that didn't seem to fit correctly. The oil had about 7,000 miles on it and the filter was crushed with wavy media.


2000 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L (181k) - Pennzoil 10w30, Napa Gold 1516, Magnefine trans filter
2009 BMW 328i (35k) - Castrol Edge Euro 0w40, MANN HU816X
Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: tig1] #4614447
12/26/17 08:37 AM
12/26/17 08:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,110
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,110
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: tig1
I see media damage from some filters here from time to time. Was wondering if oil thicker than recommended by the engine builders could cause media damage as the oil pump is forcing oil through the filter?


No, in the past I have seen oil filters last just fine handling 20W-50 oil and 80-100 psi. No tears in any, other than a Fram from the 80's

I am VERY surprised at the tearing media epidemic we have seen the last couple years!


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: tig1] #4614464
12/26/17 08:52 AM
12/26/17 08:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,299
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Online confused
bullwinkle  Online Confused
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,299
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Originally Posted By: tig1
I see media damage from some filters here from time to time. Was wondering if oil thicker than recommended by the engine builders could cause media damage as the oil pump is forcing oil through the filter? As you know I tend to use thinner oil and have never seen media damage in one of my filters. Just a thought when I saw the E-Core thread.
Thin, brittle media with poorly engineered pleats (think Purolator), combined with winter temperatures, thick conventional oil, and even moderately high RPMs can cause the tearing issues. I personally haven't had Puros (or old Ecores) with torn media-but I try hard not to push engines hard until they're completely (or at least mostly) warmed up.


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: Linctex] #4614467
12/26/17 08:55 AM
12/26/17 08:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,974
Illinois
tig1 Offline OP
tig1  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,974
Illinois
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: tig1
I see media damage from some filters here from time to time. Was wondering if oil thicker than recommended by the engine builders could cause media damage as the oil pump is forcing oil through the filter?


No, in the past I have seen oil filters last just fine handling 20W-50 oil and 80-100 psi. No tears in any, other than a Fram from the 80's

I am VERY surprised at the tearing media epidemic we have seen the last couple years!


Is there a surge in oil pressure at start in very cold temps? Especially with thicker oils. The oil filter is the first place the oil travels from the oil pump(is that right). On cold starts thick oil can by pass the filter for a time(not good). Can the filter by pass system(OEM filters) be designed for the oil wt. called for by the engine builders?


2007 Ford Fusion 235,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 60K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: Linctex] #4614474
12/26/17 09:03 AM
12/26/17 09:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 11,865
In the shop
53' Stude Online content
53' Stude  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 11,865
In the shop
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: tig1
I see media damage from some filters here from time to time. Was wondering if oil thicker than recommended by the engine builders could cause media damage as the oil pump is forcing oil through the filter?


No, in the past I have seen oil filters last just fine handling 20W-50 oil and 80-100 psi. No tears in any, other than a Fram from the 80's

I am VERY surprised at the tearing media epidemic we have seen the last couple years!


Quality control at PUROLATOR as I’ve cut and posted, witnessed is job # 0 that is ZERO. Why I would not use Motorcraft filters at all even if paid to wink


09' Camry LE, 141,020 miles

PP 5w30 and TG 4967
Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: tig1] #4614482
12/26/17 09:15 AM
12/26/17 09:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,475
Texas & Global
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,475
Texas & Global
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: tig1
I see media damage from some filters here from time to time. Was wondering if oil thicker than recommended by the engine builders could cause media damage as the oil pump is forcing oil through the filter?


No, in the past I have seen oil filters last just fine handling 20W-50 oil and 80-100 psi. No tears in any, other than a Fram from the 80's

I am VERY surprised at the tearing media epidemic we have seen the last couple years!


Is there a surge in oil pressure at start in very cold temps? Especially with thicker oils. The oil filter is the first place the oil travels from the oil pump(is that right). On cold starts thick oil can by pass the filter for a time(not good). Can the filter by pass system(OEM filters) be designed for the oil wt. called for by the engine builders?


A filter bypass due to surge will be fairly short … the oil was clean to start with …
If I was worried about filter collapse … I’d be all over a wire backed synthetic … Oh wait, I am …


2018 Chevy 1500 Z71 4WD
2017 Chevy Tahoe LT 4WD
2014 Fusion Hybrid Titanium
2013 Cruze LTZ - RS Turbo
Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: tig1] #4614484
12/26/17 09:16 AM
12/26/17 09:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,515
Houston, Texas
WellOiled Online content
WellOiled  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,515
Houston, Texas
Tig1 - good question. My take is a thicker oil will offer more resistance to flow especially during cold starts. If the filter design and manufacturing implementation is weak or the media is weak, then the weak filter may tear sooner with the thick oil than the thin oil. This is with respect to number of cold starts. Just my opinion.


2004 Ford Ranger 4.0L V6
Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5W30 + Fram Tough Guard
Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: 53' Stude] #4614485
12/26/17 09:18 AM
12/26/17 09:18 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,475
Texas & Global
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,475
Texas & Global
51 - agree ~ From my hands on “messing” with new/used Puro and a few repainted versions … the box was tougher than the media


2018 Chevy 1500 Z71 4WD
2017 Chevy Tahoe LT 4WD
2014 Fusion Hybrid Titanium
2013 Cruze LTZ - RS Turbo
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™