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#4614413 - 12/26/17 07:36 AM Thick oil and filter media damage
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 13657
Loc: Illinois
I see media damage from some filters here from time to time. Was wondering if oil thicker than recommended by the engine builders could cause media damage as the oil pump is forcing oil through the filter? As you know I tend to use thinner oil and have never seen media damage in one of my filters. Just a thought when I saw the E-Core thread.
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 227,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 49K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and MC LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters


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#4614416 - 12/26/17 07:38 AM Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: tig1]
Jimzz Offline


Registered: 10/03/14
Posts: 1142
Loc: NoVA
Should have nothing to do with it. Oil filter, most, have bypass valves. If the pressure increased enough to damage the media then the bypass valve should have already been open well before that.

Either way it shows a bad filter design/manufacture issue.
_________________________
yup

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#4614417 - 12/26/17 07:39 AM Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: tig1]
Artem Offline


Registered: 10/30/10
Posts: 5117
Loc: Florida
I suppose it's possible, theoretically. But I'd imagine its an El Cheapo or defective oil filters that's to blame in those cases.
_________________________
2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart.

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#4614420 - 12/26/17 07:44 AM Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: tig1]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 29747
Loc: NY
There are several filters that are in use in vehicles calling for oil ranging from 20 to 40 grade oil, even 50 grade in some cases. So I doubt that would be the cause. A defect or bad filter is just that.
_________________________
God Bless Our Troops


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#4614421 - 12/26/17 07:46 AM Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: tig1]
JohnnyJohnson Online   content


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2735
Loc: Wet side WA
Finer micron filtering it seems there could be some logic to that especially in colder weather.


Edited by JohnnyJohnson (12/26/17 07:46 AM)
_________________________
2004 Toyota Corolla 121668
Out: QSUD 5W-30 Purolator One 5030
In: Valvoline ML 5w-30 TG4967 117530 2-8-18
2006 Duramax 74047
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73752 4-22-18

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#4614428 - 12/26/17 08:00 AM Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: tig1]
4WD Offline


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 6366
Loc: Texas
If you follow the original Darcy Flow Equation it was based on water flow through a certain permeability (a function of porosity) — modern iterations used by Petroleum Engineers et al would include the effects of viscosity/phase/temps … so there is more resistance and the PD pump is not slowing down. So to Tig’s question it’s possible … but full flow filters and the lube system can bypass briefly and all grades of oil thins at engine operated temperature

Distance is related as well … a short path of resistance (media) is minor compared to ID and lengths of small ID … so “plumbing” has a high parasitic loss … (filters are oversized even when we don’t call them such)

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#4614440 - 12/26/17 08:26 AM Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: tig1]
69GTX Offline


Registered: 09/23/15
Posts: 3815
Loc: Connecticut
At startup in cold weather, your oil is the thickest it will be (ie the 0w, 5w, 10w part). If oil flow through the filter were a problem it would show up there, and not with the "thicker" 10w-40 oil at normal engine operating temps.
_________________________
----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 39K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs

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#4614445 - 12/26/17 08:34 AM Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: Jimzz]
jeepman3071 Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 4216
Loc: Storrs, Connecticut
Originally Posted By: Jimzz

Either way it shows a bad filter design/manufacture issue.


This. It has more to do with manufacturing flaws and inconsistency in the filter media. It can also be caused by using the wrong filter or running a cheap filter for too long.

I did an oil change last night on my sister's 2013 VW Jetta 2.5L, which has a cartridge filter. The dealer she bought it from put in synthetic oil, but used a cheap STP cartridge filter that didn't seem to fit correctly. The oil had about 7,000 miles on it and the filter was crushed with wavy media.
_________________________
2000 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L (179k) - Pennzoil 10w30, Napa Gold 1516, Magnefine trans filter
2009 BMW 328i (32k) - Castrol Edge Euro 0w40, MANN HU816X

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#4614447 - 12/26/17 08:37 AM Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: tig1]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: tig1
I see media damage from some filters here from time to time. Was wondering if oil thicker than recommended by the engine builders could cause media damage as the oil pump is forcing oil through the filter?


No, in the past I have seen oil filters last just fine handling 20W-50 oil and 80-100 psi. No tears in any, other than a Fram from the 80's

I am VERY surprised at the tearing media epidemic we have seen the last couple years!
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4614464 - 12/26/17 08:52 AM Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: tig1]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 7664
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Originally Posted By: tig1
I see media damage from some filters here from time to time. Was wondering if oil thicker than recommended by the engine builders could cause media damage as the oil pump is forcing oil through the filter? As you know I tend to use thinner oil and have never seen media damage in one of my filters. Just a thought when I saw the E-Core thread.
Thin, brittle media with poorly engineered pleats (think Purolator), combined with winter temperatures, thick conventional oil, and even moderately high RPMs can cause the tearing issues. I personally haven't had Puros (or old Ecores) with torn media-but I try hard not to push engines hard until they're completely (or at least mostly) warmed up.
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 15 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)

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#4614467 - 12/26/17 08:55 AM Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: Linctex]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 13657
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: tig1
I see media damage from some filters here from time to time. Was wondering if oil thicker than recommended by the engine builders could cause media damage as the oil pump is forcing oil through the filter?


No, in the past I have seen oil filters last just fine handling 20W-50 oil and 80-100 psi. No tears in any, other than a Fram from the 80's

I am VERY surprised at the tearing media epidemic we have seen the last couple years!


Is there a surge in oil pressure at start in very cold temps? Especially with thicker oils. The oil filter is the first place the oil travels from the oil pump(is that right). On cold starts thick oil can by pass the filter for a time(not good). Can the filter by pass system(OEM filters) be designed for the oil wt. called for by the engine builders?
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 227,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 49K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and MC LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters


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#4614474 - 12/26/17 09:03 AM Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: Linctex]
car51 Offline


Registered: 03/12/15
Posts: 10252
Loc: Southwest PA
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: tig1
I see media damage from some filters here from time to time. Was wondering if oil thicker than recommended by the engine builders could cause media damage as the oil pump is forcing oil through the filter?


No, in the past I have seen oil filters last just fine handling 20W-50 oil and 80-100 psi. No tears in any, other than a Fram from the 80's

I am VERY surprised at the tearing media epidemic we have seen the last couple years!


Quality control at PUROLATOR as I’ve cut and posted, witnessed is job # 0 that is ZERO. Why I would not use Motorcraft filters at all even if paid to wink
_________________________
2009 Toyota Camry LE

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#4614482 - 12/26/17 09:15 AM Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: tig1]
4WD Offline


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 6366
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: tig1
I see media damage from some filters here from time to time. Was wondering if oil thicker than recommended by the engine builders could cause media damage as the oil pump is forcing oil through the filter?


No, in the past I have seen oil filters last just fine handling 20W-50 oil and 80-100 psi. No tears in any, other than a Fram from the 80's

I am VERY surprised at the tearing media epidemic we have seen the last couple years!


Is there a surge in oil pressure at start in very cold temps? Especially with thicker oils. The oil filter is the first place the oil travels from the oil pump(is that right). On cold starts thick oil can by pass the filter for a time(not good). Can the filter by pass system(OEM filters) be designed for the oil wt. called for by the engine builders?


A filter bypass due to surge will be fairly short … the oil was clean to start with …
If I was worried about filter collapse … I’d be all over a wire backed synthetic … Oh wait, I am …

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#4614484 - 12/26/17 09:16 AM Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: tig1]
WellOiled Offline


Registered: 10/03/15
Posts: 1356
Loc: Houston, Texas
Tig1 - good question. My take is a thicker oil will offer more resistance to flow especially during cold starts. If the filter design and manufacturing implementation is weak or the media is weak, then the weak filter may tear sooner with the thick oil than the thin oil. This is with respect to number of cold starts. Just my opinion.
_________________________
2004 Ford Ranger 4.0L V6
NAPA Full Synthetic 5W30 + Fram Tough Guard

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#4614485 - 12/26/17 09:18 AM Re: Thick oil and filter media damage [Re: car51]
4WD Offline


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 6366
Loc: Texas
51 - agree ~ From my hands on “messing” with new/used Puro and a few repainted versions … the box was tougher than the media

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