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#4612695 - 12/24/17 05:36 AM 2016 Harley Ultra Limited 103 C.I. Blackstone Lab
RedVic Offline


Registered: 06/10/14
Posts: 68
Loc: Florida
Got back my oil report on my 2016 Harley Davidson Ultra Limited Twin Cool 103 C.I. engine. I have run Redline 20w-50 motorcycle oil since the 5,000 mile oil change, The engine ran the factory fill for the first 1,000 miles then was changed at the 1,000 mile service to Harley SYN 3 synthetic oil until the 5,000 mile oil change.

Engine has a Vance & Hines FP3 tuner, Vance & Hines Powerdual header, Rinehart mufflers and a Arlen Ness Big Sucker stage one intake.

Oil Type & Grade: Redline 20w-50 motorcycle oil

Comments: Wear metals look great for this first sample from your limited. Averages for this engine type are based on about 4,200 miles on the oil. You ran longer and got less metal in the oil-- that's great! Your engine is wearing with the best of them! The viscosity was a little think, but that hasn't hurt anything that we can see. We're not sure what causes it, but it's fairly common to see high viscosity in Harley engines. As far as we can tell, it's harmless. The TBN was quite strong at 5.0 (1.0 is low) so you should be fine with a longer interval. Try 6,500 miles. Nice!

Miles on oil: 5,222

Miles on unit: 25,001

Sample Date: 11/25/2017

Make up oil added: 0

Aluminum: 2 universal averages: 4

Chromium: 0 universal averages: 0

Iron: 8 universal averages: 11

Copper: 10 universal averages: 18

Lead:0 universal averages: 0

Tin: 1 universal averages: 1

Molybdenum: 560 universal averages: 103

Nickel: 0 universal averages: 0

Manganese: 1 universal averages: 1

Silver: 1 universal averages: 0

Titanium: 0 universal averages: 0

Potassium: 1 universal averages: 2

Boron: 17 universal averages: 139

Silicon: 18 Universal averages: 16

Sodium: 10 universal Averages: 7

Calcium: 2695 universal averages: 2223

Magnesium: 14 universal averages: 259

Phosphorus: 1901 universal averages: 1116

Since: 2117 universal averages: 1390

Barium: 1 universal averages: 1

SUS Viscosity @ 210 F: 109.0 Values: 75 - 99

cSt Viscosity @ 100 C: 22.45 Values: 14.3 - 20.4

Flashpoint in F: 415 Values: >385

Fuel %: <0.5 Values: <2.0

Antifreese %: 0

Water %: 0

Insolubles %: 0.2 Values: < 0.6

TBN 5.0


Edited by RedVic (12/24/17 05:50 AM)

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#4612701 - 12/24/17 05:53 AM Re: 2016 Harley Ultra Limited 103 C.I. Blackstone Lab [Re: RedVic]
RedVic Offline


Registered: 06/10/14
Posts: 68
Loc: Florida
Frigging Apple iMac changed Zinc to Since in the spell check.

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#4612861 - 12/24/17 09:19 AM Re: 2016 Harley Ultra Limited 103 C.I. Blackstone Lab [Re: RedVic]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 18836
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
That would be great for any engine especially one that's air cooled, you found the right oil for this engine IMO.
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#4612926 - 12/24/17 10:20 AM Re: 2016 Harley Ultra Limited 103 C.I. Blackstone Lab [Re: RedVic]
gman2304 Offline


Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 3047
Loc: n.c.
I've used Valvoline Vr1 for several years but I did order enough Redline 20w50 from Amazon this summer for my next oil change, just haven't changed it yet. After seeing your UOA with the Redline, I'm feeling better about switching to the Redline. thumbsup

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#4614363 - 12/26/17 06:11 AM Re: 2016 Harley Ultra Limited 103 C.I. Blackstone Lab [Re: RedVic]
alarmguy Offline


Registered: 07/10/12
Posts: 2147
Loc: South Carolina
Great report for sure as far as wear goes, cant ask for more.
With that said it certainly is not an HEDO oil and is very heavy on the moly.

Whether or not the high moly contributes to piston and ring deposits I have no idea and that is if you even have the bike for the long haul at 75,000 plus miles. (just my thoughts)


Edited by alarmguy (12/26/17 06:13 AM)
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#4624578 - 01/05/18 07:28 AM Re: 2016 Harley Ultra Limited 103 C.I. Blackstone Lab [Re: RedVic]
RedVic Offline


Registered: 06/10/14
Posts: 68
Loc: Florida
I installed an external filter to vent the crankcase so that it does not ingest the crankcase oil fumes which are known to cause carbon build up on the pistons.

Here is a link showing a piston that the crankcase was not vented externally and a photo of a piston that was vented externally.

http://www.dkcustomproducts.com/diy-head...-diy-bh-brt.htm

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#4624637 - 01/05/18 08:38 AM Re: 2016 Harley Ultra Limited 103 C.I. Blackstone Lab [Re: RedVic]
sunruh Offline


Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 1935
Loc: Cedar Park, TX
rv,
what those 2 pics show is that excessive blowby of the oil past the rings that then carbon up the piston.
DUH!
external vs internal venting IS not the issue.
the issue is ring seal, which those 2 photos show to be quite poor.
cars (ie just like a harley motor) have had a positive crankcase valve (pcv) installed since....early 60s at least.
so...BUZZZ nice try by company to sell a solution to a non-problem, but hey at least they make a profit from suckers aka pt barnum
get an actual round cylinder with good sealing rings and the oil blowby goes away and no carbon buildup
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#4626037 - 01/06/18 02:18 PM Re: 2016 Harley Ultra Limited 103 C.I. Blackstone Lab [Re: sunruh]
RedVic Offline


Registered: 06/10/14
Posts: 68
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: sunruh
rv,
what those 2 pics show is that excessive blowby of the oil past the rings that then carbon up the piston.
DUH!
external vs internal venting IS not the issue.
the issue is ring seal, which those 2 photos show to be quite poor.
cars (ie just like a harley motor) have had a positive crankcase valve (pcv) installed since....early 60s at least.
so...BUZZZ nice try by company to sell a solution to a non-problem, but hey at least they make a profit from suckers aka pt barnum
get an actual round cylinder with good sealing rings and the oil blowby goes away and no carbon buildup


You must not know a lot about the Harley engines. The crankcase ventilation will put quite a bit of oil into the intake which gets burned in the cylinder. I have to change the filter out every 1,000 miles so it does not get overwhelmed with oil from the crankcase ventilation.

I had a catch cup for a while but I got tired of having to drain that. The filter is quicker and easier to deal with and can be cleaned and reused.

You clearly don't understand the two photos in the link.

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#4626692 - 01/07/18 08:52 AM Re: 2016 Harley Ultra Limited 103 C.I. Blackstone Lab [Re: RedVic]
alarmguy Offline


Registered: 07/10/12
Posts: 2147
Loc: South Carolina
Most motorcycle engines dump a sloppy mess into the air cleaner box.
Nature of the beast.
Engine and bike, leaning, turning oil getting banged all over, foam ... ya da ya da.

My Yamaha was worse then my Harley when it came to oil in the air box.
Good post RedVic, interesting, never thought about pulling the hose from the airbox. I almost wish it is was little less "invasive" like plug and play, no drilling ...

As a side note, I am convinced one reason HD oil is formulated like an HDEO and why when not available HD recommends an HDEO is because of those pictures as HDEO is formulated to minimize piston and ring deposits.

(even better post, I see they have a kit for a stock unit, no drilling!)


Edited by alarmguy (01/07/18 08:58 AM)
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08 VStar 1300 Tourer
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#4627787 - 01/08/18 06:46 AM Re: 2016 Harley Ultra Limited 103 C.I. Blackstone Lab [Re: RedVic]
rossn2 Offline


Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 419
Loc: Ft Hood Texas area
Quote:
You must not know a lot about the Harley engines. The crankcase ventilation will put quite a bit of oil into the intake which gets burned in the cylinder. I have to change the filter out every 1,000 miles so it does not get overwhelmed with oil from the crankcase ventilation.

I had a catch cup for a while but I got tired of having to drain that. The filter is quicker and easier to deal with and can be cleaned and reused.

You clearly don't understand the two photos in the link.


If you're having to replace the air filter every 1k you're overfilling the crankcase. Forget the HD owner manual fill level and take out 1/2 to 3/4 of a quart..
The 103 is notorious for sucking oil thru the air filter.

My 2015 FLHTK was a 4-stage 103 and I ran 3 quarts of oil in it..no issues
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#4628915 - 01/09/18 06:20 AM Re: 2016 Harley Ultra Limited 103 C.I. Blackstone Lab [Re: rossn2]
alarmguy Offline


Registered: 07/10/12
Posts: 2147
Loc: South Carolina
I wonder if everyone knows there is a "Cold" level on the dipstick and a "HOT".
The cold level is .5 to 1 inch below the hot level.
Level should be checked while on the bike is side stand of course.

I guess I am one of the lucky ones, every time I change the oil I use the dipstick to exactly fill the oil to the proper level, never an issue.
I do now use Harleys Digital Dipstick with same results, when using the digital dipstick I still fill the oil up to the physical lines on the dipstick itself, I use the digital part primarily for oil temperature. .

I do change the air filter every two years as required and it does come out dark and dry/greasy on the side where the vent tube is, but that is expected.

I do like the idea of the external vent that redvic mentions.





Edited by alarmguy (01/09/18 06:22 AM)
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14 Road King (current)
08 VStar 1300 Tourer
07 Suzuki C50

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#4639298 - 01/18/18 09:08 PM Re: 2016 Harley Ultra Limited 103 C.I. Blackstone Lab [Re: alarmguy]
loneryder Offline


Registered: 04/19/14
Posts: 489
Loc: WV
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
I wonder if everyone knows there is a "Cold" level on the dipstick and a "HOT".
The cold level is .5 to 1 inch below the hot level.
Level should be checked while on the bike is side stand of course.

I guess I am one of the lucky ones, every time I change the oil I use the dipstick to exactly fill the oil to the proper level, never an issue.
I do now use Harleys Digital Dipstick with same results, when using the digital dipstick I still fill the oil up to the physical lines on the dipstick itself, I use the digital part primarily for oil temperature. .

I do change the air filter every two years as required and it does come out dark and dry/greasy on the side where the vent tube is, but that is expected.

I do like the idea of the external vent that redvic mentions.

You know I've been dumping 4 qts in the crankcase in my 14 103 and it's always registered Full Hot when it is cold. What do you do, put 3 qts in and start checking the stick? I have the Big Sucker air cleaner and don't want to do any drilling but I like the vent filter idea.




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#4639755 - 01/19/18 10:00 AM Re: 2016 Harley Ultra Limited 103 C.I. Blackstone Lab [Re: loneryder]
alarmguy Offline


Registered: 07/10/12
Posts: 2147
Loc: South Carolina
When I used oil in quart containers I would pour in 3.5 quarts or so and check the dipstick, keeping in mind once the engine is started a small amount of oil will fill up the oil filter. I did this on all my bikes as we know, to much oil = foaming and will come out in the airbox.

I did revisit my 2014 Touring manual (w/oil cooler) and see that it says with oil and filter change 4 quarts, so you sound about right.
The manual does add when refilling, use 3 quarts and then add remainder checking the dipstick.

I then ride the bike and check the hot level, I do like to see the level at the top of the HOT level as I know, no matter what I wont need additional oil till the next change, even though I do check before a trip or whatever.

Its been a while since quart containers, the oil I use comes in 2 gallon jugs and of course always use the dipstick.

Yes, I like that external vent idea as well, maybe more because I feel like doing something to the bike, bike is pretty much the way I want it now and almost, dare I say, boring that it feels so complete?
Agree though, Im not going to drill or mod anything that can not be removed without a "scar"


Edited by alarmguy (01/19/18 10:06 AM)
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14 Road King (current)
08 VStar 1300 Tourer
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#4646646 - 01/26/18 06:49 AM Re: 2016 Harley Ultra Limited 103 C.I. Blackstone Lab [Re: RedVic]
Bellavita Offline


Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
I've learned that checking the oil cold on my Harley is very accurate, convenient and more reliable versus checking it hot. I've found this out in doing my oil changes.

After I drain the oil on my 2013 Street Bob 96CI, I fill it with exactly 2.5 quarts per the manual. After starting the engine to circulate the oil through the filter, I check it and the oil level is exactly halfway up the stick, 3.5 squares as pictured in the manual, perfect.

The oil capacity specifications for the 96CI is 3.0 quarts for a dry engine (coming off the assembly line or a rebuild) and 2.5 for a wet engine that is in use. The engineers have got these specs spot on.

I check my oil prior to riding it in the morning for the half way mark on the stick. I barely need to wipe the stick because it has sat overnight. I changed my air cleaner at 16,000 miles and had almost no oil residue on it. This is probably because for the 1st 5,000 miles I was checking it hot and overfilling.

Its tough to adapt to looking at a dipstick with the level only half way up and accept that it is full. We're trained with our cars we want it to the top! Using the cold check on a Harley will guarantee no oil going back through the air cleaner and a very reliable check.
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2013 Harley Street Bob Twin Cam 96
2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5I Ltd
2010 Honda Pilot EX
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