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#4612440 - 12/23/17 06:36 PM Kawasaki atv vtwin UOA's
kawie_guy Offline


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 70
Loc: utah,usa
Hello all. smile

I've got a dilemma. I have tried a bunch of different oils (had UOA's done on lots of them) in my Kawasaki atv, and I keep seeing a reoccurring theme. Oil disappears in this engine. Syns, dinos, HDEO's, blends, doesn't matter. I've tried them all. It did this from early on in stock form, and continued after a top end rebuild. It goes through about 2 to 4 oz. for every tank of gas, unless I'm going slow. I'm normally not bothered by having to add a little oil, but this summer, I'm going on a grand tour from border to border of my state, and having to pack a couple quarts of oil with me is just not going to be practical. So I'm looking for something to fix the issue (aside from putting new rings and seals in it which didn't help much last time).

A little background on the quad:
It was broken in properly, and has been very well maintained. I average about 3000 miles a year on it, all in dirt.
Has lots of power, never failed me, and runs well. It smokes a bit on startup when it's cold out, but pretty sure that's due to forged pistons and/or valve seals. Goes away when it warms up. It's been built up a bit with 2mm overbore, high comp wiseco pistons, bigger cams, advanced timing, performance clutching, etc etc. It's run from 1200 rpms to about 8500 rpms max, but usually at around 5000 I would say. My temps here can be from 10 degrees F to over 100 F. And I do ride year round, rain or shine. This quad never sits more than 6 or 7 days.

Now, all the oils I've tried have been 40 weight on the upper end. So what I'm contemplating doing is going to a higher weight oil in hopes of mitigating the oil consumption. Kawie recommends a 10w-40 for most situations, but lists a wide variety as acceptable.
So, I've been hearing good things about the new Amsoil 20w50 Vtwin, and Maxima Extra 4 15w-50. I'm wondering what the opinions are of these two oils, and if there are any others I should look at?
I'm just thinking this engine is one of those flukes, and that it wants a heavier oil.

The best UOA I've gotten on this bike was with Amsoil Metric 10w-40.
aluminum 15
iron 22
moly 48
phosphorus 1270
zinc 1480
[email protected] 71.1
flash 405
insolubles trace
antifreeze pos
996 miles
1.5 quarts added in OCI


The latest UOA was Rotella T6 5w40

Aluminum 15
Iron 34
moly 68
phosphorous 1101
zinc 1261
[email protected] 65.2
flash 410
insolubles trace
antifreeze pos
1,058 miles
1 quart added in OCI

Any thoughts or comments? All are welcomed!
Thank you.

Top
#4612452 - 12/23/17 06:49 PM Re: Kawasaki atv vtwin UOA's [Re: kawie_guy]
Chris142 Offline


Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 16843
Loc: Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Did you replace the valve stem seals,guides etc?
_________________________
02 Wrangler durablend 10w40
87 F250 traveler 15w40
04 Tahoe super-s 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40

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#4612533 - 12/23/17 08:47 PM Re: Kawasaki atv vtwin UOA's [Re: kawie_guy]
c502cid Offline


Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1004
Loc: Elizabeth. Colorado
My 08 Brute Force has used zero oil the past 7 years, change it once a year. Only play with it about 10 days a years in Moab though, in the Winter and Fall so it sees all temps. Bone stock internals though. I've been running anything 5w-40 though, change it out once a year. Yours carb or EFI?
_________________________
17 SuperDuty 6.2 4x4
15 Chev Trax AWD
02 GMC 3500 8.1/Allison 4x4
00 Blazer 4x4
97/98 Civic's
84 Chev K30 454EFI 4x4
71 GMC Jimmy 502 RamJet

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#4612540 - 12/23/17 08:52 PM Re: Kawasaki atv vtwin UOA's [Re: kawie_guy]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6178
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: kawie_guy
It's been built up a bit with 2mm overbore, high comp wiseco pistons,


I'll bet you $100 that cylinder bore isn't perfectly round.
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4612541 - 12/23/17 08:52 PM Re: Kawasaki atv vtwin UOA's [Re: Chris142]
kawie_guy Offline


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 70
Loc: utah,usa
New seals were put in according to the builder, but who knows for sure.


Edited by kawie_guy (12/23/17 08:56 PM)

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#4612543 - 12/23/17 08:54 PM Re: Kawasaki atv vtwin UOA's [Re: c502cid]
kawie_guy Offline


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 70
Loc: utah,usa
It's carbed.

Top
#4612545 - 12/23/17 08:59 PM Re: Kawasaki atv vtwin UOA's [Re: Linctex]
kawie_guy Offline


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 70
Loc: utah,usa
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: kawie_guy
It's been built up a bit with 2mm overbore, high comp wiseco pistons,


I'll bet you $100 that cylinder bore isn't perfectly round.



Could be. Would be my luck. frown

Top
#4612622 - 12/24/17 12:16 AM Re: Kawasaki atv vtwin UOA's [Re: kawie_guy]
DoubleWasp Offline


Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 5236
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL
I'd start with a leak down test.
_________________________
07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio

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#4612632 - 12/24/17 01:12 AM Re: Kawasaki atv vtwin UOA's [Re: DoubleWasp]
kawie_guy Offline


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 70
Loc: utah,usa
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I'd start with a leak down test.


Yeah, I'll do that later. I know it's getting by the pistons or the valves, etc. What I'm wanting for now is a thicker oil to see if it mitigates the consumption. I've never tried the Amsoil 20w50 or the Extra4 15w50, but they seem like a good place to start.

Top
#4612669 - 12/24/17 02:57 AM Re: Kawasaki atv vtwin UOA's [Re: kawie_guy]
DoubleWasp Offline


Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 5236
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL
I hear you.

I'd pick the Amsoil 20-50 because of its stronger HTHS and very low NOACK #.

One of the guys who comes to our meets stopped the oil from weeping out of his crankcase vents on his Harley by switching to Amsoil 20-50 MC. Hardly an apples to apples comparison, but worth noting.
_________________________
07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio

Top
#4612759 - 12/24/17 07:42 AM Re: Kawasaki atv vtwin UOA's [Re: kawie_guy]
krismoriah72 Offline


Registered: 02/16/09
Posts: 1519
Loc: wv
Originally Posted By: kawie_guy
Hello all. smile

I've got a dilemma. I have tried a bunch of different oils (had UOA's done on lots of them) in my Kawasaki atv, and I keep seeing a reoccurring theme. Oil disappears in this engine. Syns, dinos, HDEO's, blends, doesn't matter. I've tried them all. It did this from early on in stock form, and continued after a top end rebuild. It goes through about 2 to 4 oz. for every tank of gas, unless I'm going slow. I'm normally not bothered by having to add a little oil, but this summer, I'm going on a grand tour from border to border of my state, and having to pack a couple quarts of oil with me is just not going to be practical. So I'm looking for something to fix the issue (aside from putting new rings and seals in it which didn't help much last time).

A little background on the quad:
It was broken in properly, and has been very well maintained. I average about 3000 miles a year on it, all in dirt.
Has lots of power, never failed me, and runs well. It smokes a bit on startup when it's cold out, but pretty sure that's due to forged pistons and/or valve seals. Goes away when it warms up. It's been built up a bit with 2mm overbore, high comp wiseco pistons, bigger cams, advanced timing, performance clutching, etc etc. It's run from 1200 rpms to about 8500 rpms max, but usually at around 5000 I would say. My temps here can be from 10 degrees F to over 100 F. And I do ride year round, rain or shine. This quad never sits more than 6 or 7 days.

Now, all the oils I've tried have been 40 weight on the upper end. So what I'm contemplating doing is going to a higher weight oil in hopes of mitigating the oil consumption. Kawie recommends a 10w-40 for most situations, but lists a wide variety as acceptable.
So, I've been hearing good things about the new Amsoil 20w50 Vtwin, and Maxima Extra 4 15w-50. I'm wondering what the opinions are of these two oils, and if there are any others I should look at?
I'm just thinking this engine is one of those flukes, and that it wants a heavier oil.

The best UOA I've gotten on this bike was with Amsoil Metric 10w-40.
aluminum 15
iron 22
moly 48
phosphorus 1270
zinc 1480
[email protected] 71.1
flash 405
insolubles trace
antifreeze pos
996 miles
1.5 quarts added in OCI


The latest UOA was Rotella T6 5w40

Aluminum 15
Iron 34
moly 68
phosphorous 1101
zinc 1261
[email protected] 65.2
flash 410
insolubles trace
antifreeze pos
1,058 miles
1 quart added in OCI

Any thoughts or comments? All are welcomed!
Thank you.




from V Force John.. a guru on kawis

from my experiences and motors Ive rebuilt that have used synthetic like mobil1, amsoil, royal purple. the wear in the motor isn't caused by bad oil. I believe the oil runs too thin when hot and can find its way to cavitation, or find it's way past the oil bearing on the left of the crankshaft.

I had a guy JUST LAST WEEK!! member from on here. he came up to buy ANOTHER crankshaft. his machine was NOT abused, its stock and in amazing shape. he didn't head the warning about using royal purple and it cost him another crankshaft.

on the other hand.

a 730cc motor I built back in 2005 (yes 7 years old) raced me with my can am 1000 and BEAT ME. this motor is running rotella 15-40 and was a race bike for GNCC and AGP NEVER FAILED YET!! and still runs strong or stronger than the day I dynotuned it.


ask yourself. spend $$$$$$ on the expensive snake oils. or buy a cheap [censored] gallon of rotella 15-40 and prevent this.

you can think, do and believe what you want.


From: http://www.kawieriders.com/forum/kawasak...e-force-11.html

Top
#4612958 - 12/24/17 10:52 AM Re: Kawasaki atv vtwin UOA's [Re: krismoriah72]
kawie_guy Offline


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 70
Loc: utah,usa
Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
Originally Posted By: kawie_guy
Hello all. smile

I've got a dilemma. I have tried a bunch of different oils (had UOA's done on lots of them) in my Kawasaki atv, and I keep seeing a reoccurring theme. Oil disappears in this engine. Syns, dinos, HDEO's, blends, doesn't matter. I've tried them all. It did this from early on in stock form, and continued after a top end rebuild. It goes through about 2 to 4 oz. for every tank of gas, unless I'm going slow. I'm normally not bothered by having to add a little oil, but this summer, I'm going on a grand tour from border to border of my state, and having to pack a couple quarts of oil with me is just not going to be practical. So I'm looking for something to fix the issue (aside from putting new rings and seals in it which didn't help much last time).

A little background on the quad:
It was broken in properly, and has been very well maintained. I average about 3000 miles a year on it, all in dirt.
Has lots of power, never failed me, and runs well. It smokes a bit on startup when it's cold out, but pretty sure that's due to forged pistons and/or valve seals. Goes away when it warms up. It's been built up a bit with 2mm overbore, high comp wiseco pistons, bigger cams, advanced timing, performance clutching, etc etc. It's run from 1200 rpms to about 8500 rpms max, but usually at around 5000 I would say. My temps here can be from 10 degrees F to over 100 F. And I do ride year round, rain or shine. This quad never sits more than 6 or 7 days.

Now, all the oils I've tried have been 40 weight on the upper end. So what I'm contemplating doing is going to a higher weight oil in hopes of mitigating the oil consumption. Kawie recommends a 10w-40 for most situations, but lists a wide variety as acceptable.
So, I've been hearing good things about the new Amsoil 20w50 Vtwin, and Maxima Extra 4 15w-50. I'm wondering what the opinions are of these two oils, and if there are any others I should look at?
I'm just thinking this engine is one of those flukes, and that it wants a heavier oil.

The best UOA I've gotten on this bike was with Amsoil Metric 10w-40.
aluminum 15
iron 22
moly 48
phosphorus 1270
zinc 1480
[email protected] 71.1
flash 405
insolubles trace
antifreeze pos
996 miles
1.5 quarts added in OCI


The latest UOA was Rotella T6 5w40

Aluminum 15
Iron 34
moly 68
phosphorous 1101
zinc 1261
[email protected] 65.2
flash 410
insolubles trace
antifreeze pos
1,058 miles
1 quart added in OCI

Any thoughts or comments? All are welcomed!
Thank you.




from V Force John.. a guru on kawis

from my experiences and motors Ive rebuilt that have used synthetic like mobil1, amsoil, royal purple. the wear in the motor isn't caused by bad oil. I believe the oil runs too thin when hot and can find its way to cavitation, or find it's way past the oil bearing on the left of the crankshaft.

I had a guy JUST LAST WEEK!! member from on here. he came up to buy ANOTHER crankshaft. his machine was NOT abused, its stock and in amazing shape. he didn't head the warning about using royal purple and it cost him another crankshaft.

on the other hand.

a 730cc motor I built back in 2005 (yes 7 years old) raced me with my can am 1000 and BEAT ME. this motor is running rotella 15-40 and was a race bike for GNCC and AGP NEVER FAILED YET!! and still runs strong or stronger than the day I dynotuned it.


ask yourself. spend $$$$$$ on the expensive snake oils. or buy a cheap [censored] gallon of rotella 15-40 and prevent this.

you can think, do and believe what you want.


From: http://www.kawieriders.com/forum/kawasak...e-force-11.html


Read that quote of his before. Never could understand why he'd lump RP in with Amsoil and M1. Obviously the guy who had to get a new crank was using RP.

Top
#4613149 - 12/24/17 02:22 PM Re: Kawasaki atv vtwin UOA's [Re: kawie_guy]
DoubleWasp Offline


Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 5236
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Oil runs too thin when hot? What? confused

I'm assuming this man is not familiar with HTHS.
_________________________
07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio

Top
#4615229 - 12/26/17 09:58 PM Re: Kawasaki atv vtwin UOA's [Re: DoubleWasp]
kawie_guy Offline


Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 70
Loc: utah,usa
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I hear you.

I'd pick the Amsoil 20-50 because of its stronger HTHS and very low NOACK #.

One of the guys who comes to our meets stopped the oil from weeping out of his crankcase vents on his Harley by switching to Amsoil 20-50 MC. Hardly an apples to apples comparison, but worth noting.


Interesting. Thank you. I've got a few weep spots I wouldn't mind getting rid of. The rubber plug holding the crank position sensor and stator wire is getting messy on high rpm runs.

How are the ester-based oils for hydrolizing? Maxima says their oils don't latch onto water like ester based refrigerants, but I've grown leary of verbal claims.


Edited by kawie_guy (12/26/17 09:59 PM)

Top
#4615299 - 12/27/17 12:48 AM Re: Kawasaki atv vtwin UOA's [Re: kawie_guy]
DoubleWasp Offline


Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 5236
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL
The Maxima oil is also a performer. User Albertdi found it was the only MC oil his LC4 engine didn't shear badly.
_________________________
07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio

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