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Shifting Times #4612260
12/23/17 02:52 PM
12/23/17 02:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,016
Texas
4WD Online confused OP
4WD  Online Confused OP
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,016
Texas
We all witness a lasting trend of more and more gears in the modern automatics.
Name a vehicle you had 5-10 years ago that could have been much better with 6 to 10 gears
I’d start with a Hummer H3 … the 4L60e was not ideal for an I5 and 4.56 gears
What say you?

Re: Shifting Times [Re: 4WD] #4612272
12/23/17 03:11 PM
12/23/17 03:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,377
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Offline
Chris142  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,377
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
My 69 chevelle was a 3 on the tree. I liked it. The new semi trucks are using 8,9 and 10 speeds. 40+ yrs ago they had more gears.4x4,5x4 and 13speeds were the norm


02 Wrangler durablend 10w40
87 F250 traveler 15w40
04 Tahoe super-s 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40
Re: Shifting Times [Re: 4WD] #4612284
12/23/17 03:33 PM
12/23/17 03:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,967
Pennsylvania
Boomer Offline
Boomer  Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,967
Pennsylvania
How about the 1963 Chevy I learned to drive in? Had the slush matic of the times....two forward speeds.


2013 VW Passat TDI SE, 59,300 miles Castrol Professional VW507 5W-30
2017 VW Golf All Track 17,470 miles Castrol Professional VW505 5W-40
Re: Shifting Times [Re: 4WD] #4612290
12/23/17 03:47 PM
12/23/17 03:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 429
New England
555 Offline
555  Offline
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 429
New England
The Chevy in my sig would be much nicer with at least a 6 speed auto as would the Jag.
Wouldn't mind a six or seven speed(manual)for the Mustang either!


84 XJ6 M1
92 Mustang 5.0 Redline
99 Tahoe 2 door Castrol Edge
99 MX5 Miata Anniversary Edition M1
04 Subaru STi Motul
Re: Shifting Times [Re: 4WD] #4612292
12/23/17 03:55 PM
12/23/17 03:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,196
Ontario, Canada
IndyIan Offline
IndyIan  Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,196
Ontario, Canada
I think unless you have a high strung, high rpm NA engine, the more gears thing isn't doing much for you in normal driving. I wish my manuals had a top gear set up mileage, instead I do many of my passes without down shifting...
It does help with mileage and is a slight performance boost, so I guess that's why we see more many geared automatics.


07 Focus ZXW, 5spd manual, 210km M1 5W30
18 Outback 2.5 CVT 10km 0W20 "bulk subaru" whatever that is
Re: Shifting Times [Re: 4WD] #4612293
12/23/17 03:57 PM
12/23/17 03:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,402
KY
MCompact Offline
MCompact  Offline
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,402
KY
My ti has a 3.45 rear gear set with a close ratio five speed; 5th gear is 1.1. I'd like a 4.11 rear set with a six speed with 6th being a .80 overdrive.


Mine:
2014 M235i
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1995 318ti Club Sport

Wife's:
2009 Cooper Clubman

Son's
2009 328i

Buy what makes you smile...
Re: Shifting Times [Re: 4WD] #4612303
12/23/17 04:19 PM
12/23/17 04:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,274
In the Garage...
ls1mike Offline
ls1mike  Offline
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,274
In the Garage...
I feel like my 2002 2500HD could benefit from the current 6 speed auto.

I always felt the old 4 speed in my 3800 cars was good, just could have been beefed up a bit.


Mike
00 Trans Am WS6 5.7 LS1
02 Silverado 2500HD 6.0
14 Caprice PPV 6.0
15 Malibu LTZ Turbo
12 Passport TT
Re: Shifting Times [Re: 4WD] #4612307
12/23/17 04:27 PM
12/23/17 04:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,484
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,484
...
I can go back into the sixties. Three on the tree was still common. The influx of Japanese vehicles changed the notion of the column shift to the floor shift. As for automatics, 3 speeds were mainstream for quite some time.

Did older cars have different gear ratios, especially in the rear end? My recollection is that gears were held longer then compared to today. Granted, fuel economy plays a role in the quick upshifts today but perhaps there is more to the story.

My dad always taught me to wind up the motors, meaning getting rpms up high before shifting. He was a truck driver so that certainly played a part in his opinion but today’s transmissions are so fast to upshift there is not much chance of winding up the engines unless you are doing it manually, either with a manual or automatic if able.


This has the makings of a great thread.

Ps: to keep on track with the general gist of this thread, more gears mean nothing if the upshifts are happening quickly.


Last edited by PimTac; 12/23/17 04:29 PM. Reason: To clarify my thoughts.


Re: Shifting Times [Re: 4WD] #4612320
12/23/17 04:53 PM
12/23/17 04:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,425
Western S.C. since 1996
CR94 Offline
CR94  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,425
Western S.C. since 1996
The '54 Chevy my parents bought new and much later gave me as my first car had a 3.70 axle ratio, along with the standard 3-speed manual and 235 cubic inch "Stove Bolt" I6. That meant about 3000 revs/mile, which was handy for slogging through mud or climbing steepish hills without downshifting, but way too low for relaxed cruising on good roads. It needed the then-optional overdrive.

Typical for small cars of its day, my '72 Subaru was geared very low, with 4.02 overall ratio. Even with a 1267 cc engine, it could've used a 5th gear for cruising. Five-speeds came a few years later, as exemplified by my Mazda.


2011 Toyota Prius now at 92K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Re: Shifting Times [Re: 4WD] #4612379
12/23/17 06:05 PM
12/23/17 06:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,755
New Zealand
Silk Offline
Silk  Offline
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,755
New Zealand
My scooter has one gear, that's all it needs. 5 speeds was a good step for motorcycles, there was normally a big gap between 2nd and 3rd to have a smaller gap between 3rd and 4th, with 5 speeds thay are better spaced out. 6 gears are just more to change, and I don't like the 6 speed manual utes either, too m uch gear changing. The older 4 speed trucks (Bedfords etc, not pickups) had a crawler 1st gear with a huge gap to 2nd, scream the engine out in 1st, and then try to get it into 2nd...on a cold morning they often used to stall on the 1 2 shift.


1987 BMW R65 - Penrite V Twin 20/50
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: Shifting Times [Re: CR94] #4612390
12/23/17 06:25 PM
12/23/17 06:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,484
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,484
...
Originally Posted By: CR94
The '54 Chevy my parents bought new and much later gave me as my first car had a 3.70 axle ratio, along with the standard 3-speed manual and 235 cubic inch "Stove Bolt" I6. That meant about 3000 revs/mile, which was handy for slogging through mud or climbing steepish hills without downshifting, but way too low for relaxed cruising on good roads. It needed the then-optional overdrive.

Typical for small cars of its day, my '72 Subaru was geared very low, with 4.02 overall ratio. Even with a 1267 cc engine, it could've used a 5th gear for cruising. Five-speeds came a few years later, as exemplified by my Mazda.



This is part of my thinking. Cars are being geared higher for fuel economy so would that pushed the need for more gears. Also what I see is a 1:1 ratio not at the high gear but further back. Since overdrive was considered anything beyond 1:1 I am seeing OD gearing at the top two speeds. Coupled with smaller engines makes more gears a necessity. Of course there is a limit of value. 6-7-8 speeds may be the sweet spot. A 10 speed might be playing on the idea that more is better.



Re: Shifting Times [Re: PimTac] #4612409
12/23/17 06:55 PM
12/23/17 06:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 371
Alabama, USA
bcossa2001 Offline
bcossa2001  Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 371
Alabama, USA
My 1974 Fiat X 1/9 turned 4000 rpm at 60 mph. It certainly would have been nice to have had a 5th gear...


"Facts are pesky things"

2003 Town & Country--143 k
2016 Fusion 8 k
2016 Fusion 34 k
2017 Santa Fe 8k
Re: Shifting Times [Re: bcossa2001] #4612462
12/23/17 08:09 PM
12/23/17 08:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 440
Near Mobile
ffhdriver Offline
ffhdriver  Offline
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 440
Near Mobile
My '61 Ford Fairlane had a 3.0 rear end and a Cruise-o-matic transmission which had two D positions so you had a choice of either two or three forward gears. It performed fine.

Last edited by ffhdriver; 12/23/17 08:15 PM.
Re: Shifting Times [Re: 4WD] #4612504
12/23/17 09:08 PM
12/23/17 09:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,755
New Zealand
Silk Offline
Silk  Offline
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,755
New Zealand
1st was sometimes an option - on the early Mercedes (finny) autos it only went into 1st when you went full throttle. On my 1993 Nissan Laurel there was a switch on the consol that said ''slow'', when it was on it locked out 1st and took off in 2nd. My 1954 Austin A40 pickup had a sticker on the quarter window - do not use 1st gear. It had a low ratio rear end that put 2nd nearly where 1st was in the car, if you used 1st it would just go bang! and wind the diff and springs up.


1987 BMW R65 - Penrite V Twin 20/50
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: Shifting Times [Re: Silk] #4612512
12/23/17 09:16 PM
12/23/17 09:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,270
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,270
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Silk
The older 4 speed trucks (Bedfords etc, not pickups) had a crawler 1st gear with a huge gap to 2nd, scream the engine out in 1st, and then try to get it into 2nd...on a cold morning they often used to stall on the 1 2 shift.


I've got a "granny low" NP-435 behind a 3.9L-4BTA Cummins in a F-350 with 3.55's.
1st is about worthless, so I usually just take off in 2nd.

The jump between 3rd and 4th is HORRIBLE - I have to get to 3000 RPM in 3rd before trying to get in 4th.

My old Harley Shovel 4 speed was worthless around town - 2nd rev'd too high, 3rd lugged. My 1988 Softail is MUCH better - all 5 seems evenly spaced.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
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