Recent Topics
GM Marine Engine wont start
by Gito. 09/24/18 11:59 PM
New TV bad picture some channels part2
by raaizin. 09/24/18 10:46 PM
Another Bad PCM on a Buick 3.8L!
by clinebarger. 09/24/18 10:17 PM
Funny pictures thread
by JLTD. 09/24/18 08:40 PM
Redline 15w40: Low or Mid Saps?
by SavagePatch. 09/24/18 06:59 PM
What are these cables to?
by 99Eclipse. 09/24/18 06:44 PM
Help with parasitic draw?
by buck91. 09/24/18 05:57 PM
Costco Car Buying Program
by dkryan. 09/24/18 05:39 PM
Glass Scrub?
by buck91. 09/24/18 05:03 PM
Loosing coolant from somewhere
by NICAT. 09/24/18 03:47 PM
2010 or so Ford Fusion Sport thoughts?
by ZZman. 09/24/18 03:35 PM
My boss killed his jeep.
by Chris142. 09/24/18 02:40 PM
Moly question about walmart oils
by jayjr1105. 09/24/18 02:33 PM
Questions About 9011 Bulbs
by knerml. 09/24/18 02:23 PM
Lubricant Additives - A Practical Guide
by wemay. 09/24/18 01:39 PM
Newest Members
fortim, albert001, LG_Electronics, TCam, OzFrog
66063 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
36 registered members (CharlieBauer, carlprop, 1991AirCooled, Bailes1992, Buzzsaw, 4 invisible), 697 guests, and 36 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics290,964
Posts4,853,467
Members66,063
Most Online3,590
Jan 24th, 2017
Donate to BITOG
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Shock and spring setup for better ride quality #4611347
12/22/17 03:24 PM
12/22/17 03:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,916
Chicago, IL
EdwardC Offline OP
EdwardC  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,916
Chicago, IL
I've been thinking about replacing the suspension on all 4 corners of my Honda Element. It has a pretty short wheelbase and with its age, it's become bouncier.

The Element is a keeper, so I was planning to buy whole OEM assemblies and do the installation myself. That should get me close to the original ride quality.

However, for an acceptable amount more money, there are custom coilover setups that I could get with custom springs and damper valving. Originally, the kits were made to be able to lower Elements one or a few inches. However, I can also order the kit with longer springs of varying spring rate, then adjust the spring perch up higher, getting the same ride height, but with more spring. I think I could also potentially get a dual rate spring setup.

So, help me understand what it takes to get better ride quality from the suspension. For now, let's assume the wheels/tires and ultimate ride height (stock) are constants, and that the shocks will always be valved appropriately for the spring rate. Is it just a matter of getting the softest spring that will hold the weight of the car?

Thanks for any thoughts!

Re: Shock and spring setup for better ride quality [Re: EdwardC] #4611353
12/22/17 03:29 PM
12/22/17 03:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,868
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,868
Kalifornia Kollective
OK, so fully 1/2 of ride quality is the tires. Higher aspect ratio and lower tire pressure will help a lot. So if they are riding on 60's, go to 70's and drop the pressure.

Next, a lot of the ride quality comes from the rubber bushings in the suspension. If the rubber is getting hard, that will lead to less compliance and that leads to harsher ride.

Very unlikely the springs are the issue ...

Shock valving can have a very dramatic effect on ride quality. How progressive the valving is is one way. Ranch0 9000 shocks have user adjustable valving and can get you the ride quality you want, just spin the dial smile


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Shock and spring setup for better ride quality [Re: EdwardC] #4611386
12/22/17 03:48 PM
12/22/17 03:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,916
Chicago, IL
EdwardC Offline OP
EdwardC  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,916
Chicago, IL
Oh, I agree completely. I have no doubt there's nothing "wrong" with my current (I'm certain I could save a few bucks by reusing my old springs), or new OEM springs. I'm just curious if I could potentially do better. I'm running the stock tire size, 215/70R16, with decent tires.

Shock valving is something I hadn't really looked into. I know the coilovers have adjustable valving, but I don't know the parameters of those adjustments.

Re: Shock and spring setup for better ride quality [Re: EdwardC] #4611429
12/22/17 04:36 PM
12/22/17 04:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
The Midwest
skyactiv Offline
skyactiv  Offline
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
The Midwest
It needs need shocks/struts to restore the original ride quality. Speaking of ride quality, I just looked at the road test on Consumers Reports, which usually has a bias towards Honda and Toyota. They state the Honda Element has a stiff, choppy ride.

While I would replace the shocks on all four corners since your describing your Element has become bouncier over time, I'd learn to live with the ride.


Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 13' VW GTI 3 door 6 speed manual
Re: Shock and spring setup for better ride quality [Re: EdwardC] #4611431
12/22/17 04:36 PM
12/22/17 04:36 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,282
ROCHESTER, NY
Char Baby Offline
Char Baby  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,282
ROCHESTER, NY
Are you looking for a ride that is more absorbent to road irregularities or a ride that is a bit more cushioned/floaty?


"Retired"
-----------------------------------

'80 Firebird FORMULA V8/4bbl-purchased "NEW"
'15 Nissan Altima 2.5 SV
'15 Honda Civic LX
Re: Shock and spring setup for better ride quality [Re: EdwardC] #4611444
12/22/17 04:58 PM
12/22/17 04:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,719
Hudson, NH
LeakySeals Offline
LeakySeals  Offline
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,719
Hudson, NH
Being bouncy is the biggest Element complaint, you're far from alone. Especially in the rear. According to many that have tried and failed, its the design, the shape. So its not something you can't easily get rid of if at all. Many say adding weight in the rear helps. That means maybe the springs are too high or too strong. Lowering the center of gravity, lowering the springs should help.


06 Escalade 6.0L LQ9 AWD 165k M1 5w30
03 Maxima 3.5L POS 152k ST HM 10w30
Re: Shock and spring setup for better ride quality [Re: Char Baby] #4611448
12/22/17 05:02 PM
12/22/17 05:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,916
Chicago, IL
EdwardC Offline OP
EdwardC  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,916
Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Are you looking for a ride that is more absorbent to road irregularities or a ride that is a bit more cushioned/floaty?


I think I'd want... both? Maybe more the first, for road irregularities. I'm not sure if this answers your question, but the ride seems more acceptable at highway speeds, but harsher than I like around tow, hitting bumps and such.

Re: Shock and spring setup for better ride quality [Re: EdwardC] #4611457
12/22/17 05:14 PM
12/22/17 05:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,905
NE,Ohio
Rand Offline
Rand  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,905
NE,Ohio
What tires do you have on it?.. That is part of the equation as well.


2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk 2.0T
Re: Shock and spring setup for better ride quality [Re: Rand] #4611469
12/22/17 05:23 PM
12/22/17 05:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,916
Chicago, IL
EdwardC Offline OP
EdwardC  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,916
Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: Rand
What tires do you have on it?.. That is part of the equation as well.


Since everyone keeps bringing that up, I have Bridgestone Dueler H/L 422 Ecopia in the stock size (215/70R16), but I don't plan on changing tires for better ride quality, however, if the type of tire I am using affects suspension suggestions, please let me know.

Edit: Also, I typically run at the stock tire pressure, 33 front, 35 rear PSI. I lower the rear one or two PSI sometimes as well since I rarely carry passengers and currently have the rear seats out.

Last edited by EdwardC; 12/22/17 05:25 PM.
Re: Shock and spring setup for better ride quality [Re: EdwardC] #4611511
12/22/17 06:24 PM
12/22/17 06:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 511
Roswell GA
eagle23 Offline
eagle23  Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 511
Roswell GA
Originally Posted By: EdwardC
[quote=Rand]What tires do you have on it?.. That is part of the equation as well.


[I have Bridgestone Dueler H/L 422 Ecopia in the stock size (215/70R16), but I don't plan on changing tires for better ride quality, however, if the type of tire I am using affects suspension suggestions, please let me know.

Edit: Also, I typically run at the stock tire pressure, 33 front, 35 rear PSI. I lower the rear one or two PSI sometimes as well since I rarely carry passengers and currently have the rear seats out.]

Part of the ride harshness are the tire pressures you're using. For a vehicle that doesn't carry passengers, I would lower the rear pressures to 29, and the fronts to no more than 32. I suspect you'd see a noticeable ride difference.

Every front drive car I've had for decades I've done that with. Unless I've had a lot of passengers, I usually run a 3-5 psi difference front to rear. The centers don't wear out as quickly, either.

Also, consider changing to a softer riding tire. The Ecopias are not well rated in that category at Tire Rack. In a car that is already harsh riding, the tires make a big difference, as was said earlier. That would give better results that spring/shock changes that have a history of disappointing outcomes, and maybe for the same or less money.

Re: Shock and spring setup for better ride quality [Re: EdwardC] #4611525
12/22/17 06:44 PM
12/22/17 06:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,837
USA
slacktide_bitog Offline
slacktide_bitog  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,837
USA
Just get the OEM Honda quick struts, and be lucky that Honda offers complete assemblies from the dealer smile

How many miles on your Element? What year is it? For the early cars 03-06, Monroe makes quick struts for all 4 wheels. For the later cars 07+ they only have the rears available. There is also a rebate if you buy by 1/30

Re: Shock and spring setup for better ride quality [Re: LeakySeals] #4611564
12/22/17 07:28 PM
12/22/17 07:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,916
Chicago, IL
EdwardC Offline OP
EdwardC  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,916
Chicago, IL

Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Just get the OEM Honda quick struts, and be lucky that Honda offers complete assemblies from the dealer smile

How many miles on your Element? What year is it? For the early cars 03-06, Monroe makes quick struts for all 4 wheels. For the later cars 07+ they only have the rears available. There is also a rebate if you buy by 1/30


It's an 07 with about 120,000 miles on it.


Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Being bouncy is the biggest Element complaint, you're far from alone. Especially in the rear. According to many that have tried and failed, its the design, the shape. So its not something you can't easily get rid of if at all. Many say adding weight in the rear helps. That means maybe the springs are too high or too strong. Lowering the center of gravity, lowering the springs should help.


It's definitely does ride better with weight in the back. The coilovers do allow me to play with the ride height a little as well. I had thought about lowering it an inch or so to help prevent thieves from stealing the cat again. Better ride would be a nice bonus.

Thanks everyone! I understand that the Element won't be the smoothest vehicle ever, just wanted to see if I could gain anything since I'll be replacing the suspension anyway.

Re: Shock and spring setup for better ride quality [Re: EdwardC] #4611776
12/23/17 03:15 AM
12/23/17 03:15 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,387
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Offline
DoubleWasp  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,387
Fort Lauderdale, FL
The problem with the Element and similar vehicles is that the shocks are too short in the rear. This is a very common engineering problem that always causes bad ride behavior.

The coil over is probably your best way to go. I've done those on a number of modern Hondas, and was able to tune the suspension just right every time.

Ride, grip, handling, and absorption all improved without any changes to the tires or wheels.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio
Re: Shock and spring setup for better ride quality [Re: DoubleWasp] #4611791
12/23/17 05:31 AM
12/23/17 05:31 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,282
ROCHESTER, NY
Char Baby Offline
Char Baby  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,282
ROCHESTER, NY
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
The problem with the Element and similar vehicles is that the shocks are too short in the rear. This is a very common engineering problem that always causes bad ride behavior.

The coil over is probably your best way to go. I've done those on a number of modern Hondas, and was able to tune the suspension just right every time.

Ride, grip, handling, and absorption all improved without any changes to the tires or wheels.


^^^This seems like the way to go!


"Retired"
-----------------------------------

'80 Firebird FORMULA V8/4bbl-purchased "NEW"
'15 Nissan Altima 2.5 SV
'15 Honda Civic LX
Re: Shock and spring setup for better ride quality [Re: EdwardC] #4611793
12/23/17 05:38 AM
12/23/17 05:38 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,063
North Carolina
spasm3 Offline
spasm3  Offline
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,063
North Carolina
Is your element an SC? They had lowered suspension which means even less suspension travel.

Last edited by spasm3; 12/23/17 05:38 AM.

13 elantra 70k 5w30 QSUD
03 chevy avalanche79k synpwr 10w30
01 saturnsc1 185k synpwr rebuilt
17 mazda cx-5 5600 miles m1 0w30
Page 1 of 2 1 2

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™