Recent Topics
Ford Pickup Front Wheel Bearings 2WD
by benjamming. 12/14/18 10:52 PM
GMC oil fill tube
by Redright9. 12/14/18 10:24 PM
Where do I buy Toto toilets? That has them!
by Vern_in_IL. 12/14/18 10:04 PM
Best filter cutter for the price?
by DONWATERS. 12/14/18 09:38 PM
5W-40 vs 10W-30 for a 2018 Audi A4
by jcr1293. 12/14/18 09:25 PM
Gave up on quadrajet electric choke today...
by leroyd92. 12/14/18 08:54 PM
2015 Odyssey - Which synthetic ATF?
by AngryScientist. 12/14/18 07:56 PM
Hyundai extended my warranty
by ernied. 12/14/18 07:33 PM
2016 Traverse 6350mi Schaeffers 9000 5W30
by chevman4life. 12/14/18 07:21 PM
Oil filter for Canadian winter
by Popsy. 12/14/18 06:11 PM
12-14-18 only! Irwin vise @ Menards. $99.99
by Kruse. 12/14/18 06:01 PM
10" Subwoofer - $6.52 Each
by Greg L. 12/14/18 05:31 PM
Finding 507.00 spec oil
by sloinker. 12/14/18 05:31 PM
New Tires for the Old Chevy!
by dogememe. 12/14/18 05:09 PM
Back to Basics II
by MolaKule. 12/14/18 04:31 PM
"SG(+)" 15w40 or better oil 1987 BBC 454
by F239141. 12/14/18 03:52 PM
All Mazda 3’s have bad OCV’s?
by buster. 12/14/18 03:44 PM
Newest Members
NEKGuy, Deltafaatl, wsalopek, jcr1293, maxwellk
66684 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
64 registered members (AdditiveOCD, AndyB, Ag76, bbhero, 69GTX, 11 invisible), 1,246 guests, and 41 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics295,090
Posts4,927,583
Members66,684
Most Online2,553
Oct 27th, 2018
Donate to BITOG
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
98 Expedition 5.4 Oil and engine noise #4609333
12/20/17 01:29 PM
12/20/17 01:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 318
Florida
Fitz98 Offline OP
Fitz98  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 318
Florida
I have a 98 Expedition 5.4 with a recent 100k replacement used engine put in.
Oil was changed about 3K miles ago with Mobil Synthetic extended performance 5w30.
I have noticed on my last 2 trips towing my boat that after the engine got warmed up about 8-10 miles into the trip, (WITHOUT OVERDRIVE ON) running at about 2500 RPM'S there was a pretty substantial rapping noise coming from engine. Did not sound so much like a bearing knock, as much as a lifter rapping noise. After the 1st time I heard it, I noticed I was about a quart low and topped it off, but 2nd trip was the same.
On my 3rd trip running at about 1500-1800 RPM'S, I did use the overdrive and there was no noise to be heard.
Should I change the oil type, weight, or add an additive?
Do you think it is an engine issue or more of an oil breakdown issue.

Last edited by Fitz98; 12/20/17 01:32 PM.
Re: 98 Expedition 5.4 Oil and engine noise [Re: Fitz98] #4609335
12/20/17 01:31 PM
12/20/17 01:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 34
pa
zues50 Offline
zues50  Offline
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 34
pa
VTC solenoid, or cam phaser/timing knock?

over drive on off, could it be transmission?

Re: 98 Expedition 5.4 Oil and engine noise [Re: zues50] #4609340
12/20/17 01:34 PM
12/20/17 01:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 318
Florida
Fitz98 Offline OP
Fitz98  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 318
Florida
I controlled the overdrive on/off with the switch. No problem there, request is regarding the engine noise under load at high RPM's with warmed up engine.

Re: 98 Expedition 5.4 Oil and engine noise [Re: Fitz98] #4609345
12/20/17 01:38 PM
12/20/17 01:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,988
Onondaga County
Miller88 Offline
Miller88  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,988
Onondaga County
How are the timing chain guides? That's usually an indication that the plastic guides are brittle and coming apart


18 Forester 2.5I 6M
00 Jeep Cherokee
01 Ford F-350 XL 4x4 5M
Re: 98 Expedition 5.4 Oil and engine noise [Re: Fitz98] #4609361
12/20/17 01:52 PM
12/20/17 01:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 91
SC, USA
Bxnanaz Offline
Bxnanaz  Offline
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 91
SC, USA
Those engines are known to have timing chain problems (mainly the guides breaking), as well as roller rocker failures.

Re: 98 Expedition 5.4 Oil and engine noise [Re: Fitz98] #4609368
12/20/17 02:05 PM
12/20/17 02:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,619
Santa Barbara, CA
bdcardinal Offline
bdcardinal  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,619
Santa Barbara, CA
Timing chain guides as mentioned before are common. There are no VCTs on this, those appeared in 03/04 on the 3V engines. Rocker arms failing or falling off are no uncommon. Lifters going bad is also not uncommon, but not as much as the timing guides being worn out. If you change them, change everything on the timing side since you will have the cover off.

Also take a close look at all the vacuum elbows, especially on the PCV hoses. They will not cause your ticking problem, but they tear and at that age and mileage they are either slightly torn or all splooged out and squishy.


2014 Ford Mustang GT Track Pack
1995 Ford Mustang GT

Ford/Mazda Parts Counter
NRA Benefactor Member
Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: 98 Expedition 5.4 Oil and engine noise [Re: Fitz98] #4609439
12/20/17 03:34 PM
12/20/17 03:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 318
Florida
Fitz98 Offline OP
Fitz98  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 318
Florida
Timing chain guides seems to fit description, especially since I have a noise on cold startup as well, I just thought that was because oil settles down and takes some time to get drawn up to the heads.
Would this explain why it happens only at higher RPM's and only when the engine is running under a towing load?
Symptoms went away when towing with lower RPM's.
Should I consider a different weight oil? I am running 5w30.
Was also more of a rapping noise than a ticking noise.

Re: 98 Expedition 5.4 Oil and engine noise [Re: Fitz98] #4609452
12/20/17 04:01 PM
12/20/17 04:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,939
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,939
Ontario, Canada
Another source of a diesel-like sound is an exhaust manifold leak on the passenger side, where the studs rot off.

Since yours is a '98, and I assume the replacement engine was also a 98 and not a newer "PI" engine, you shouldn't have the spark plug launching issue, which also would make a similar sound when a plug was loose and about ready to pop.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: 98 Expedition 5.4 Oil and engine noise [Re: Fitz98] #4609492
12/20/17 05:09 PM
12/20/17 05:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 91
SC, USA
Bxnanaz Offline
Bxnanaz  Offline
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 91
SC, USA
I heavier weight oil will definitely quiet down the noise... but its just a bandaid on something that needs stitches. If you plan on keeping this vehicle, id repair it ASAP.

Re: 98 Expedition 5.4 Oil and engine noise [Re: OVERKILL] #4609562
12/20/17 06:34 PM
12/20/17 06:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,988
Onondaga County
Miller88 Offline
Miller88  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,988
Onondaga County
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Another source of a diesel-like sound is an exhaust manifold leak on the passenger side, where the studs rot off.

Since yours is a '98, and I assume the replacement engine was also a 98 and not a newer "PI" engine, you shouldn't have the spark plug launching issue, which also would make a similar sound when a plug was loose and about ready to pop.


I think all 5.4s had the PI heads - I put a 1997 F-150 5.4 into my 2001 F-350 and it has PI heads.

Also has the timing chain rattle and a bit knocky at idle.


18 Forester 2.5I 6M
00 Jeep Cherokee
01 Ford F-350 XL 4x4 5M
Re: 98 Expedition 5.4 Oil and engine noise [Re: Miller88] #4609567
12/20/17 06:38 PM
12/20/17 06:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,939
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,939
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Another source of a diesel-like sound is an exhaust manifold leak on the passenger side, where the studs rot off.

Since yours is a '98, and I assume the replacement engine was also a 98 and not a newer "PI" engine, you shouldn't have the spark plug launching issue, which also would make a similar sound when a plug was loose and about ready to pop.


I think all 5.4s had the PI heads - I put a 1997 F-150 5.4 into my 2001 F-350 and it has PI heads.

Also has the timing chain rattle and a bit knocky at idle.


Nope.

The non-PI 5.4L from 1997/1998 was 230HP. In 1999 the upgrade to the PI heads happened (with the cams that go along with the heads) and power was increased to 260HP.

This coincided with the fitment of the PI parts to the Mustang in 1999.

EDIT:

To add some official information from here

Quote:


HEADS

There have been two different head castings used for the SOHC motors, each with two variations, and one DOHC casting that was used on both the right and left side of these engines. All of the SOHC heads are Windsor castings, so they have individual caps on each cam journal and four 10 x 1.5mm holes in both ends of the heads, but the DOHC heads are Romeo castings, so they have ladder caps and four 8.0 x 1.25mm holes on both ends.

1997 (through 7/20/97) SOHC "Not Power Improved" Heads The 5.4L engines originally came with a F65E, F75 or F75E castings. Theyre all "NPI" heads that have the bigger chambers with the "swirl fin" behind the intake valve and the small, oval shaped, intake ports. This early head is unique because the two blind holes that are used for the pegs that keep the intake gasket aligned during installation are drilled toward the inside of the port, closer to the valley.

97 (7/21/97) through 99 SOHC "Not Power Improved" Heads Ford made one minor, but important, change to the "NPI" head late in 1997; the intake gaskets were modified and the blind holes for the alignment pegs were moved over to the opposite side of the ports so they were closer to the head. It appears that Ford made this change only on the F75E castings, but its best to check all of the 5.4L "NPI" castings to be sure you get the right heads on the right engine, or make sure that you send the gaskets that match the heads that were installed on the long block.

1999-01 SOHC "Power Improved" Heads The "power improved heads" with the square intake ports were introduced in 99. They had bigger intake valves, different springs and a heart-shaped chamber with a modified swirl-fin behind the intake valves. Theyre all XL3E castings. NOTE: The "PI" heads werent used on everything in 99, so be sure to have your customer actually look at the intake ports before selling an engine or you will have about a 50/50 chance of selling the wrong engine.

2002 "Power Improved" Heads Ford continued to use the "PI" heads in 2002, but they revised the intake gasket again, so they moved the two dowel holes back over to the valley side of the ports. There are two versions of the later gasket, one that has a coolant restrictor built into the gasket and one that doesnt, so rebuilders need to be especially careful when supplying gaskets for these late model applications. This latest version of the "PI" head is a 2L1E casting.

1999 through 01 DOHC Heads The XL1E-AE DOHC casting showed up mid-year in 99 on the Lincoln Navigator and was used up through 2001 on the Navigator and the Blackwood. These heads were built in the Romeo plant along with all the other DOHC heads for the Lincoln cars and Mustang Cobras, but this casting number doesnt match any of those found on the car heads, so we believe these castings are unique to this application. The DOHC head casting has three holes for the secondary chain tensioners on both the front and the top of the #1 bulkhead, so it can be used on either side of the engine as long as the oil hole for the tensioner on the opposite end is plugged off.

Something Else To Know The 5.4L seems to be having a lot of problems with stripped spark plug threads. Both the head and the spark plugs only have five or six threads, so its easy to strip them out if someone tries to remove the plugs when the head is hot or overtorques them during installation. Ford recommends 7 to 15 pounds of torque, which doesnt seem like enough to some people who have big wrenches. Some of the plugs werent torqued properly at the factory, either, so they slowly worked themselves loose until they were literally blown out of the head, coil pack and all. Rebuilders should check the spark plug threads carefully and repair any of them that even look questionable. Some rebuilders are actually installing inserts in all of the spark plug holes to avoid problems in the field. Were familiar with three different repair inserts: the ones that are made of stainless steel, like Heli Coil; the steel inserts made by Time Fastener; and the hard anodized aluminum ones that are made by Lock-N-Stitch. Each design has its pros and cons, so its up to each rebuilder to decide which one he prefers to use in his shop. Time-Serts are available through Enginetech at 800-869-8711 and the Full-Torque inserts are available through Lock-N-Stitch at 800-736-8621. Whichever insert you decide to use, just make sure you check the treads and fix the ones that are suspect or you will get to fix the problem when the engine comes back home again.

CAMS

The cams for the 5.4L are all hollow designs with pressed-on lobes. There are right and left cams for the SOHC motors along with the right and left intake and exhaust cams for the DOHC. The SOHC heads are made in Windsor, so the cam gears are pressed-on, but the DOHC heads are made in Romeo, so the gears are bolted-on.

1997 thru 99 SOHC with "NPI" Heads The "NPI" heads came with a "mild" grind that worked well with the small oval ports found on these heads. The right hand cam had a F65E-6251-BA identification number on the barrel and the left cam had F65E-6C255-AA on it.

1999 through 01 SOHC with "PI" Heads The "power improved" heads with the square intake ports and bigger valves came with "power improved" cams, too. The right cam was a XL3E-6251-A8C and the left one was a XL3E-6C255-A8C. Both are hollow cams with pressed-on lobes and gears.

Read more at: http://www.modularfords.com/threads/79320-this-should-answer-alot-of-5-4-2v-questions




2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: 98 Expedition 5.4 Oil and engine noise [Re: Fitz98] #4609573
12/20/17 06:46 PM
12/20/17 06:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,816
Katy, Republic of Texas
blupupher Offline
blupupher  Offline
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,816
Katy, Republic of Texas
PI heads came about in '99 on the 5.4.

Timing chain tensioner guide issues are usually heard at startup and idle, not under load.
The exhaust manifold could make the sound you are talking about, especially under load.
Check that out, as well as the spark plug tightness (28 ft lbs dry).

I would try a different oil and see what happens.
Also, what oil filter are you using?


2012 xB: QSUD 0w-20/CQ Blue/5k
2010 Santa Fe: PP 0w-20/P1/8k
2007 Vue: VSP 5w-30/EcoGard/OLM
2004 F150: GTX HM 5w-20/TG2/4k
2002 F150: GTX HM 5w-20/EcoGard/1yr
1994 VT1100c: Peak 15w-40/PSL/5k



Re: 98 Expedition 5.4 Oil and engine noise [Re: OVERKILL] #4609585
12/20/17 06:58 PM
12/20/17 06:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,988
Onondaga County
Miller88 Offline
Miller88  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,988
Onondaga County
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Another source of a diesel-like sound is an exhaust manifold leak on the passenger side, where the studs rot off.

Since yours is a '98, and I assume the replacement engine was also a 98 and not a newer "PI" engine, you shouldn't have the spark plug launching issue, which also would make a similar sound when a plug was loose and about ready to pop.


I think all 5.4s had the PI heads - I put a 1997 F-150 5.4 into my 2001 F-350 and it has PI heads.

Also has the timing chain rattle and a bit knocky at idle.


Nope.

The non-PI 5.4L from 1997/1998 was 230HP. In 1999 the upgrade to the PI heads happened (with the cams that go along with the heads) and power was increased to 260HP.

This coincided with the fitment of the PI parts to the Mustang in 1999.

EDIT:

To add some official information from here

Quote:


HEADS

There have been two different head castings used for the SOHC motors, each with two variations, and one DOHC casting that was used on both the right and left side of these engines. All of the SOHC heads are Windsor castings, so they have individual caps on each cam journal and four 10 x 1.5mm holes in both ends of the heads, but the DOHC heads are Romeo castings, so they have ladder caps and four 8.0 x 1.25mm holes on both ends.

1997 (through 7/20/97) SOHC "Not Power Improved" Heads The 5.4L engines originally came with a F65E, F75 or F75E castings. Theyre all "NPI" heads that have the bigger chambers with the "swirl fin" behind the intake valve and the small, oval shaped, intake ports. This early head is unique because the two blind holes that are used for the pegs that keep the intake gasket aligned during installation are drilled toward the inside of the port, closer to the valley.

97 (7/21/97) through 99 SOHC "Not Power Improved" Heads Ford made one minor, but important, change to the "NPI" head late in 1997; the intake gaskets were modified and the blind holes for the alignment pegs were moved over to the opposite side of the ports so they were closer to the head. It appears that Ford made this change only on the F75E castings, but its best to check all of the 5.4L "NPI" castings to be sure you get the right heads on the right engine, or make sure that you send the gaskets that match the heads that were installed on the long block.

1999-01 SOHC "Power Improved" Heads The "power improved heads" with the square intake ports were introduced in 99. They had bigger intake valves, different springs and a heart-shaped chamber with a modified swirl-fin behind the intake valves. Theyre all XL3E castings. NOTE: The "PI" heads werent used on everything in 99, so be sure to have your customer actually look at the intake ports before selling an engine or you will have about a 50/50 chance of selling the wrong engine.

2002 "Power Improved" Heads Ford continued to use the "PI" heads in 2002, but they revised the intake gasket again, so they moved the two dowel holes back over to the valley side of the ports. There are two versions of the later gasket, one that has a coolant restrictor built into the gasket and one that doesnt, so rebuilders need to be especially careful when supplying gaskets for these late model applications. This latest version of the "PI" head is a 2L1E casting.

1999 through 01 DOHC Heads The XL1E-AE DOHC casting showed up mid-year in 99 on the Lincoln Navigator and was used up through 2001 on the Navigator and the Blackwood. These heads were built in the Romeo plant along with all the other DOHC heads for the Lincoln cars and Mustang Cobras, but this casting number doesnt match any of those found on the car heads, so we believe these castings are unique to this application. The DOHC head casting has three holes for the secondary chain tensioners on both the front and the top of the #1 bulkhead, so it can be used on either side of the engine as long as the oil hole for the tensioner on the opposite end is plugged off.

Something Else To Know The 5.4L seems to be having a lot of problems with stripped spark plug threads. Both the head and the spark plugs only have five or six threads, so its easy to strip them out if someone tries to remove the plugs when the head is hot or overtorques them during installation. Ford recommends 7 to 15 pounds of torque, which doesnt seem like enough to some people who have big wrenches. Some of the plugs werent torqued properly at the factory, either, so they slowly worked themselves loose until they were literally blown out of the head, coil pack and all. Rebuilders should check the spark plug threads carefully and repair any of them that even look questionable. Some rebuilders are actually installing inserts in all of the spark plug holes to avoid problems in the field. Were familiar with three different repair inserts: the ones that are made of stainless steel, like Heli Coil; the steel inserts made by Time Fastener; and the hard anodized aluminum ones that are made by Lock-N-Stitch. Each design has its pros and cons, so its up to each rebuilder to decide which one he prefers to use in his shop. Time-Serts are available through Enginetech at 800-869-8711 and the Full-Torque inserts are available through Lock-N-Stitch at 800-736-8621. Whichever insert you decide to use, just make sure you check the treads and fix the ones that are suspect or you will get to fix the problem when the engine comes back home again.

CAMS

The cams for the 5.4L are all hollow designs with pressed-on lobes. There are right and left cams for the SOHC motors along with the right and left intake and exhaust cams for the DOHC. The SOHC heads are made in Windsor, so the cam gears are pressed-on, but the DOHC heads are made in Romeo, so the gears are bolted-on.

1997 thru 99 SOHC with "NPI" Heads The "NPI" heads came with a "mild" grind that worked well with the small oval ports found on these heads. The right hand cam had a F65E-6251-BA identification number on the barrel and the left cam had F65E-6C255-AA on it.

1999 through 01 SOHC with "PI" Heads The "power improved" heads with the square intake ports and bigger valves came with "power improved" cams, too. The right cam was a XL3E-6251-A8C and the left one was a XL3E-6C255-A8C. Both are hollow cams with pressed-on lobes and gears.

Read more at: http://www.modularfords.com/threads/79320-this-should-answer-alot-of-5-4-2v-questions




Well, that's interesting.

The valve cover says 97 on it, but it definitely has the square ports and PI head. Car-Part said it came out of a 2001 F-150 but I had assumed they listed it wrong. It may actually be a 2001 engine!


18 Forester 2.5I 6M
00 Jeep Cherokee
01 Ford F-350 XL 4x4 5M
Re: 98 Expedition 5.4 Oil and engine noise [Re: Miller88] #4609683
12/20/17 08:23 PM
12/20/17 08:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,939
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,939
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Miller88


Well, that's interesting.

The valve cover says 97 on it, but it definitely has the square ports and PI head. Car-Part said it came out of a 2001 F-150 but I had assumed they listed it wrong. It may actually be a 2001 engine!




grin


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: 98 Expedition 5.4 Oil and engine noise [Re: zues50] #4610026
12/21/17 09:28 AM
12/21/17 09:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
BlueOvalFitter Offline
BlueOvalFitter  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,003
Cajun Country, La.
Originally Posted By: zues50
VTC solenoid, or cam phaser/timing knock?

over drive on off, could it be transmission?

^^^This.^^^
My son works at a Ford dealership. He's very good friends with the shop foreman. Whenever his truck needs something his friend helps him out. Just recently he told my son his VTC Solenoids need to be replaced. His engine is having the same issues as what yours is.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™