why extended OCI ?

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
There are plenty of oils today to go well past 10,000 miles with no issues whatsoever.


Can you promise me that they will go 10,000 miles without causing the faintest indication of varnish staining for every engine on the planet? And before you answer that, keep in mind that if you're wrong, lightning will strike you.


You can't promise that with whatever interval youre touting... Way too many variables to that.

3/3k or whatever was found with old tech materials, controls and oils, and was an extension on whatever the prior recommendation was (recall the Kendall "V"?).

Extensions from there based upon best practices, new controls and materials is viable - and vendors are extending them as they see fit and as they align to the fluids they spec.

Ill venture to guess that many of the situations where people experience issues are due to using the incorrect fluids. Sort of like the dex cool debacle - If green never touched your system, it was OK, but mix a little in by accident once and sludge city.

 

[demarpaint]

I pushed my Liberty OCI to 6K miles, my van 18-24 months and the Rubicon 5K miles. I have UOA data showing those intervals are fine with a little margin for error. I've said this before caught some praise, and some heat. I would not buy a use car from anyone that did 10K or higher OCI's I don't care what condition it's in. Will I miss out on a good one? Maybe, but odds are all things being equal the one with the 5K OCI is going to have a cleaner engine with less wear. Operative words: "all things being equal."

 

[Tony10s]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
These guys get some kind of macho high by pushing their engine oil to 10,000 miles. It's dumb as heck.

I'd rather take my engine apart someday to find that it's spotless. Much more satisfaction that way.


For 40 years now I have done 10K OCIs. 10K has been my normal OCI and thought nothing about it until I got on BITOG and saw stupid comments like yours.

 

[dnewton3]

By now, there must just be pure boredom on the part of many BITOGers that we even have to have this conversation ...
THERE IS NO ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL ANSWER TO THIS TOPIC, AND THOSE WHO WANT TO BENCH RACE THIS INTO A CANNED ANSWER ARE FOOLING THEMSELVES AND BAITING OTHERS.

There are tons of examples here that prove extended OCIs are safe, reliable, cost effective and of no substantial risk.
There are plenty of examples here that have shown extending an OCI is a ill-advised risk due to conditions that cannot be adequately controlled.
.

Making the decision is about knowing the overall risks and benefits. Not guessing; too many BITOGers bench-race this topic. I'm talking about KNOWING with direct and indirect data and facts. There are times an extended OCI makes perfect sense; other times it won't.

What I am comfortable in saying is that the POTENTIAL for extending OCIs exists in nearly every BITOGers garage. Whether he/she is comfortable, and (more importantly) capable, of doing it intelligently and methodically with a penchant of success is up to the individual.

There are three types of maintenance programs all based on "PM":
1) preventative maintenance; changing out things based on preconceived notions or simple guesstimates.
2) predictive maintenance; changing out things based on facts and data collected directly from the operation and/or indirectly from other similar situations
3) panic maintenance; waiting until something goes wrong to address it

Which do you practice?

 

[Tony10s]

Originally Posted By: BalticBob
Why do some car owners try to get the last mile out of a oil change?
Compared to engine damage from dirty oil, they are not that costly.
Even a low price oil and filter changed at 5-8K is better than extending any oil/filter combination. The whole point of a oil change is to get the dirty oil out and clean oil in, right?

I agree with the UOA group, that is the only way to know when oil needs to be replaced.
That mileage is different for every car (even if the same model), because of different driving habits, etc.

Even with a UOA at a high mile interval, it would be better to put the UOA cost into a fresh oil change.
When in doubt, change it out.

Now I wait for the posts to correct my skewed reasoning !

If you want to change your oil and filter at 5000 - 8000 miles, there's nothing wrong with that. I don't do extended OCIs either.

 

[fdcg27]

You must first define the term "extended."
My newer Accord will allow 10K+ drains per the MM.
Toyota has made a flat 10K recommendation for some years for most of its vehicles.
Many IOLM equipped engines will allow 10K+ drains in actual use.
Engine control systems as well as oils have progressed over the years and current drain interval recommendations reflect this.
Manufacturer's drain interval recommendations are also quite conservative for various good reasons, so there is potential for extending them for those who do a ton of miles and are willing to do the homework, like UOAs, to validate them.
There is a convenience factor for those of us who live in areas of cold winter weather and for those who run a lot of miles. It doesn't break my heart at all to know that I won't need to get under a car to change its oil until the return of warmer weather.

 

[UberArchetype]

Originally Posted By: BalticBob
Why do some car owners try to get the last mile out of a oil change?

Same reason some people eat 4-5 slices of pizza at one sitting instead of 2 or 3.

Originally Posted By: BalticBob
Compared to engine damage from dirty oil, they are not that costly.

Both pizza and motor oil are relatively inexpensive commodities. Some people just use what they need. Others pig out.

 

[eyeofthetiger]

Originally Posted By: UberArchetype
Originally Posted By: BalticBob
Why do some car owners try to get the last mile out of a oil change?

Same reason some people eat 4-5 slices of pizza at one sitting instead of 2 or 3.
Originally Posted By: BalticBob
Compared to engine damage from dirty oil, they are not that costly.

Both pizza and motor oil are relatively inexpensive commodities. Some people just use what they need. Others pig out.


4-5 slices? Try 8. In fact, I think I'll order a pizza for lunch today. Why should I put on real pants and risk a cold start on one of my engines when I can just pay $10 extra to have food brought to my front door? I also like to change my oil and fluids early and often. I like to drive around aimlessly just to consume gasoline and make sure my engine oil warms up completely. I will drink 8 cups of coffee this morning, and then make another pot for this evening. My dogs are fat.

 

[BeerCan]

I do ~10k oil changes for 2 reasons

1. Ford says I can
2. If I can conserve resources then why not.

My UOA suit me fine so I rest easy

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You must first define the term "extended."
My newer Accord will allow 10K+ drains per the MM.
Toyota has made a flat 10K recommendation for some years for most of its vehicles.
Many IOLM equipped engines will allow 10K+ drains in actual use.
Engine control systems as well as oils have progressed over the years and current drain interval recommendations reflect this.
Manufacturer's drain interval recommendations are also quite conservative for various good reasons, so there is potential for extending them for those who do a ton of miles and are willing to do the homework, like UOAs, to validate them.
There is a convenience factor for those of us who live in areas of cold winter weather and for those who run a lot of miles. It doesn't break my heart at all to know that I won't need to get under a car to change its oil until the return of warmer weather.


But have any of those car manufacturer guaranteed a 10K OCI will give your engine optimum or best wear?

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You must first define the term "extended."
My newer Accord will allow 10K+ drains per the MM.
Toyota has made a flat 10K recommendation for some years for most of its vehicles.
Many IOLM equipped engines will allow 10K+ drains in actual use.
Engine control systems as well as oils have progressed over the years and current drain interval recommendations reflect this.
Manufacturer's drain interval recommendations are also quite conservative for various good reasons, so there is potential for extending them for those who do a ton of miles and are willing to do the homework, like UOAs, to validate them.
There is a convenience factor for those of us who live in areas of cold winter weather and for those who run a lot of miles. It doesn't break my heart at all to know that I won't need to get under a car to change its oil until the return of warmer weather.


But have any of those car manufacturer guaranteed a 10K OCI will give your engine optimum or best wear?


You'd first have to define what you mean by optimum or best wear and no manufacturer can guarantee anything anyway even were they to spec 3K drains.
You wanna change more frequently?
Have at it while thinking you're doing some good.
Whatever gives you the warm and fuzzies.
The recommended drain intervals are intended to keep the engine healthy for the life of the vehicle in which it's installed.
They aren't intended to leave the engine entirely free of wear and deposits, but wear is the inevitable result of use and no oil change interval can prevent it.

 

[DBMaster]

I started using 10K as my OCI around 1991 - for my 1989 Honda Accord. I used whatever synthetic 10W-30 was the best price. In it's later years - after 300K miles - I was using Rotella T 5W-40 to limit the leakage past the worn valve stem seals and valve guides. I replaced so much on that car in 353K miles, but never the engine or any component that could have failed due to lubrication issues. Many have been sold a bill of goods regarding OCIs.

 

[fdcg27]

You must be making this up.
Too many people know that you can't run any oil in any engine for 10K.
That's just crazy!
Or is it?
Too many people have run 10K drains for too many years on too many different oils for anyone to seriously doubt that this is a viable plan for OCIs.
It should also be noted that one can't do frequent enough drains to make up for design problems in various engines that bring either excessive deposits or high oil consumption.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I started using 10K as my OCI around 1991 - for my 1989 Honda Accord. I used whatever synthetic 10W-30 was the best price. In it's later years - after 300K miles - I was using Rotella T 5W-40 to limit the leakage past the worn valve stem seals and valve guides. I replaced so much on that car in 353K miles, but never the engine or any component that could have failed due to lubrication issues. Many have been sold a bill of goods regarding OCIs.


Arent leaky valve guide seals an oil related problem?


Jeff

 

[Brigadier]

Depends on the vehicle.

My 06 Colorado had a bad thermostat, and the cooler oil gummed up the VVT Solenoid and I was running 8K OCI on T6 5W-40. Now I keep it to about 5-6k on 5W-30 Max-Life as that is cheaper than a new VVT solenoid. My commute is 20 miles each way, 60% traffic, 40% freeway. My OLM has usually indicated to change oil at 8-10k.

My wife's 13 Mazda3 lives on trips less than 5 miles. So, it is 4k OCI on Castrol EP 5W-30 as it is also a DI engine and fuel dilution is a concern.

 

[DBMaster]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I started using 10K as my OCI around 1991 - for my 1989 Honda Accord. I used whatever synthetic 10W-30 was the best price. In it's later years - after 300K miles - I was using Rotella T 5W-40 to limit the leakage past the worn valve stem seals and valve guides. I replaced so much on that car in 353K miles, but never the engine or any component that could have failed due to lubrication issues. Many have been sold a bill of goods regarding OCIs.


Arent leaky valve guide seals an oil related problem?

Jeff


No, they are actually a Honda A20A3 engine issue. Not terribly serious leakage and the engine did have over 300,000 miles on it.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
These guys get some kind of macho high by pushing their engine oil to 10,000 miles. It's dumb as heck.

Merk, if you ran taxis and got under the car each time you didn't like the oil colour, you'd never make any money or get off the ground.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Merk, if you ran taxis and got under the car each time you didn't like the oil colour, you'd never make any money or get off the ground.

What was the OCI on your taxis? I forget.

 

[Garak]

It was 10,000 km (6,000 miles) on conventional of the day, like around the SE to SH days.

 

[fdcg27]

No.