High Mileage & High Zinc

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What are my alternatives for a High Mileage and High Zinc motor oil? I want the high mileage to swell the seals and the high zinc for the flat tappets. It seems like I can have one but not both. I have no particular preference if it is conventional or synthetic. Quaker State Defy used to be that oil but the zinc has been reduced to below 1,000ppm. Thanks
 
Is high ZDDP level even required for flat tappet engines? I thought it was only needed for break-in, and after that it wasn't needed.
 
Mobil 1 High Mileage only has 900 ppm of zinc and 800 ppm of phosphorous. That is according to the Mobil product data sheet of March 2017.
 
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Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
If you look at uoa's here,M1 high mileage oils have even lower zddp than Mobil claims.
How can you tell? They're all on [censored] Photobucket, there's no way to see them. Other than HDEOs, I can't think of any high Zn formulations-and some of the CK-4/SN ones have lost it as well.
 
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
If you look at uoa's here,M1 high mileage oils have even lower zddp than Mobil claims.
How can you tell? They're all on [censored] Photobucket, there's no way to see them. Other than HDEOs, I can't think of any high Zn formulations-and some of the CK-4/SN ones have lost it as well.


I did a uoa on M1 high mileage 10W40 a few years ago and it showed to only have a zddp level in the 700 range.
 
Originally Posted By: andrewp1998
RP hps or hmx


I'd forgotten about those. I did a uoa on RP 20W50 (old Synerlec version) and it had a ton of zddp and moly. I bet RP's XPR has even more!
 
1,000 PPM is not the problem threshold, < 800 is the problem area for flat tappet engines. Trying to find a seal swell oil with > 800 is what we are on the look-out for...

As far a adequate ZDDP, most "pure" diesel engine oils are good. John Deere Plus 50 is an excellent oil. Mystic and Traveler from TSC are good ones. Chevron Delo 400 SD (severe duty) is a great oil for flat tappets. But, most do not come with additional seal swell additives...
 
Same predicament that I'm in with my GTO. You have to remember, in regards to the uoa's, is that zinc gets used up with mileage. An oil may start with 1200ppm of zinc when new but, as the miles add up, that number will go down. Todays oils with 800ppm are considered fine for flat tappets after an oil change but what is that number after 1K, 2K etc.? And, what level of zinc does it's protection go away? Too high of a zinc level can be bad for an engine as well. The best plan that I've heard, so far, IMO, is to start off with an oil like Valvoline Maxlife and, either add a few oz. of a zinc additive at the oil change or you can wait, in the case of a stock engine that is not pushed too hard, until 1k or even 2k on the oil and add a few oz. of zinc at that point and every 1k after to keep the zinc level at a decent level. Many classic cars only get 2k or less put on them between oil changes so you may be fine without any added zinc between oil changes. Most people want to be safe than sorry, so adding a little extra zinc won't hurt. Today's oils are tougher than any oils 20 or 30 years ago. Todays GM Seq. IIIG test is still done with a flat tappet valve train and todays oils pass with flying colors but for how long will that protection stay adequate as the zinc gets used up? I think that 1 or 2K is well within todays oils' ability to protect but adding zinc as you go beyond that mileage may be needed to give that flat tappet engine the protection it needs. Sorry this is so long. Just my 2 cents on the subject and looking forward to getting different opinions on this very important subject.
 
These are old, as most are now CK, but it gives an idea of ZDDP levels

15. 15W40 MOBIL DELVAC 1300 SUPER Diesel Oil conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4/SM, SL = 73,300 psi
zinc = 1297 ppm
phos = 1944 ppm
ZDDP = 1600 ppm

15b. 15W50 Mystic JT8 Diesel Oil conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4/SM, SL = 73,300 psi
zinc = 1472 ppm
phos = 1160 ppm
ZDDP = 1320 ppm

16. 15W40 Farm Rated Heavy Duty Performance Diesel, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF/SL, SJ (conventional) = 73,176 psi
zinc = 1325ppm
phos = 1234 ppm
ZDDP = 1200 ppm

17. 15W40 “NEW” SHELL ROTELLA T Diesel Oil conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CF-4,CF/SM = 72,022 psi
zinc = 1454 ppm
phos = 1062 ppm
ZDDP = 1200 ppm
 
Valvoline says that their Maxlife is at 830ppm and Pennzoil HM is at 850ppm. Good levels to start with. Rislone zinc additive will add 100ppm for each oz. you add.
 
Originally Posted By: vwalburn
Are the current CK oils restricted to SN levels of zinc, 600-800?

Only if they are also SN and in the viscosity of 0w-30 or 5w-30, or if they have the ACEA E6 specification, regardless of viscosity in that case.
 
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