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High Mileage & High Zinc #4607420
12/18/17 03:42 PM
12/18/17 03:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Michigan
Building3 Offline OP
Building3  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Michigan
What are my alternatives for a High Mileage and High Zinc motor oil? I want the high mileage to swell the seals and the high zinc for the flat tappets. It seems like I can have one but not both. I have no particular preference if it is conventional or synthetic. Quaker State Defy used to be that oil but the zinc has been reduced to below 1,000ppm. Thanks

Re: High Mileage & High Zinc [Re: Building3] #4607430
12/18/17 03:50 PM
12/18/17 03:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,322
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,322
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Mobil 1 10W40 High Mileage comes to mind-zinc at 1100, or if you want to get crazy-Valvoline Heavy Duty with MaxLife Technology 15W40 has zinc over 1200.


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: High Mileage & High Zinc [Re: Building3] #4607431
12/18/17 03:50 PM
12/18/17 03:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,306
Upper Midwest
kschachn Offline
kschachn  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,306
Upper Midwest
Is high ZDDP level even required for flat tappet engines? I thought it was only needed for break-in, and after that it wasn't needed.


1994 BMW 530i, 238K
1996 Honda Accord, 266K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 407K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 280K
Re: High Mileage & High Zinc [Re: Building3] #4607460
12/18/17 04:28 PM
12/18/17 04:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 893
Colorado
newtoncd8 Offline
newtoncd8  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 893
Colorado
ZDDP plus and your oil of choice? That is what I do with our 77 MG-B.


12 Jeep GC, 04 Lexus RX330, 77 MG-B
11 Audi A4, 01 Audi A4
99 Lexus ES300, 98 Isuzu Trooper
94 & 91 Acura Integra, 88 Toyota Camry,
84 Honda Accord, 70 Pontiac LeMans,
62 Ford Galaxy 500
Re: High Mileage & High Zinc [Re: bullwinkle] #4607504
12/18/17 05:36 PM
12/18/17 05:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Michigan
Building3 Offline OP
Building3  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Michigan
Mobil 1 High Mileage only has 900 ppm of zinc and 800 ppm of phosphorous. That is according to the Mobil product data sheet of March 2017.

Last edited by Building3; 12/18/17 05:38 PM.
Re: High Mileage & High Zinc [Re: Building3] #4607513
12/18/17 05:46 PM
12/18/17 05:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,119
Dallas,Tx USA
aquariuscsm Offline
aquariuscsm  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,119
Dallas,Tx USA
If you look at uoa's here,M1 high mileage oils have even lower zddp than Mobil claims.


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Pennzoil Platinum 5W20

Re: High Mileage & High Zinc [Re: aquariuscsm] #4607541
12/18/17 06:18 PM
12/18/17 06:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,322
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,322
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
If you look at uoa's here,M1 high mileage oils have even lower zddp than Mobil claims.
How can you tell? They're all on [censored] Photobucket, there's no way to see them. Other than HDEOs, I can't think of any high Zn formulations-and some of the CK-4/SN ones have lost it as well.


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: High Mileage & High Zinc [Re: Building3] #4607570
12/18/17 06:33 PM
12/18/17 06:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 127
Canada
mcwilly Offline
mcwilly  Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 127
Canada
If you are going HDEO then Rotella T6 still has 1199 zinc.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...SM_#Post4490450


2010 Subaru Sti 74,000km
2001 Toyota Echo 245,000km
Re: High Mileage & High Zinc [Re: bullwinkle] #4607642
12/18/17 07:54 PM
12/18/17 07:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,119
Dallas,Tx USA
aquariuscsm Offline
aquariuscsm  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,119
Dallas,Tx USA
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
If you look at uoa's here,M1 high mileage oils have even lower zddp than Mobil claims.
How can you tell? They're all on [censored] Photobucket, there's no way to see them. Other than HDEOs, I can't think of any high Zn formulations-and some of the CK-4/SN ones have lost it as well.


I did a uoa on M1 high mileage 10W40 a few years ago and it showed to only have a zddp level in the 700 range.


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Pennzoil Platinum 5W20

Re: High Mileage & High Zinc [Re: Building3] #4607665
12/18/17 08:19 PM
12/18/17 08:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 868
MA USA
andrewp1998 Offline
andrewp1998  Offline
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 868
MA USA
RP hps or hmx


2001 Honda civic HX vtecE- 5 spd,232k+
Re: High Mileage & High Zinc [Re: andrewp1998] #4607676
12/18/17 08:31 PM
12/18/17 08:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,119
Dallas,Tx USA
aquariuscsm Offline
aquariuscsm  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,119
Dallas,Tx USA
Originally Posted By: andrewp1998
RP hps or hmx


I'd forgotten about those. I did a uoa on RP 20W50 (old Synerlec version) and it had a ton of zddp and moly. I bet RP's XPR has even more!


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Pennzoil Platinum 5W20

Re: High Mileage & High Zinc [Re: Building3] #4607705
12/18/17 09:09 PM
12/18/17 09:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,075
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,075
Kalifornia Kollective
1,000 PPM is not the problem threshold, < 800 is the problem area for flat tappet engines. Trying to find a seal swell oil with > 800 is what we are on the look-out for...

As far a adequate ZDDP, most "pure" diesel engine oils are good. John Deere Plus 50 is an excellent oil. Mystic and Traveler from TSC are good ones. Chevron Delo 400 SD (severe duty) is a great oil for flat tappets. But, most do not come with additional seal swell additives...


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: High Mileage & High Zinc [Re: andrewp1998] #4607800
12/19/17 12:37 AM
12/19/17 12:37 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,428
San Rafael, CA
dogememe Offline
dogememe  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,428
San Rafael, CA
Originally Posted By: andrewp1998
RP hps or hmx


+1


2010 Ford Escape 2.5 ~91K Miles: AMSOIL SS 5W-30, AMSOIL SS FE ATF.
1995 Chevy Silverado 5.7 ~277K Miles: Delo 10W-30, AMSOIL OE MV ATF.
AMSOIL
Re: High Mileage & High Zinc [Re: Building3] #4607879
12/19/17 06:16 AM
12/19/17 06:16 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 117
Wichita, Kansas
vwalburn Offline
vwalburn  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 117
Wichita, Kansas
Same predicament that I'm in with my GTO. You have to remember, in regards to the uoa's, is that zinc gets used up with mileage. An oil may start with 1200ppm of zinc when new but, as the miles add up, that number will go down. Todays oils with 800ppm are considered fine for flat tappets after an oil change but what is that number after 1K, 2K etc.? And, what level of zinc does it's protection go away? Too high of a zinc level can be bad for an engine as well. The best plan that I've heard, so far, IMO, is to start off with an oil like Valvoline Maxlife and, either add a few oz. of a zinc additive at the oil change or you can wait, in the case of a stock engine that is not pushed too hard, until 1k or even 2k on the oil and add a few oz. of zinc at that point and every 1k after to keep the zinc level at a decent level. Many classic cars only get 2k or less put on them between oil changes so you may be fine without any added zinc between oil changes. Most people want to be safe than sorry, so adding a little extra zinc won't hurt. Today's oils are tougher than any oils 20 or 30 years ago. Todays GM Seq. IIIG test is still done with a flat tappet valve train and todays oils pass with flying colors but for how long will that protection stay adequate as the zinc gets used up? I think that 1 or 2K is well within todays oils' ability to protect but adding zinc as you go beyond that mileage may be needed to give that flat tappet engine the protection it needs. Sorry this is so long. Just my 2 cents on the subject and looking forward to getting different opinions on this very important subject.


1996 Dodge Ram 1500
Valvoline MaxLife
2002 Honda Accord
Valvoline SynPower
2011 Chevrolet Equinox
Mobil1
1964 Pontiac GTO
Pennzoil 10W-40
Re: High Mileage & High Zinc [Re: Building3] #4608118
12/19/17 10:43 AM
12/19/17 10:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 429
Florida, USA
vintageant Offline
vintageant  Offline
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 429
Florida, USA
These are old, as most are now CK, but it gives an idea of ZDDP levels

15. 15W40 MOBIL DELVAC 1300 SUPER Diesel Oil conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4/SM, SL = 73,300 psi
zinc = 1297 ppm
phos = 1944 ppm
ZDDP = 1600 ppm

15b. 15W50 Mystic JT8 Diesel Oil conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4/SM, SL = 73,300 psi
zinc = 1472 ppm
phos = 1160 ppm
ZDDP = 1320 ppm

16. 15W40 Farm Rated Heavy Duty Performance Diesel, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF/SL, SJ (conventional) = 73,176 psi
zinc = 1325ppm
phos = 1234 ppm
ZDDP = 1200 ppm

17. 15W40 “NEW” SHELL ROTELLA T Diesel Oil conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CF-4,CF/SM = 72,022 psi
zinc = 1454 ppm
phos = 1062 ppm
ZDDP = 1200 ppm


1925 Alvis HDEO 15W40
1937 Alvis Speed 25 20W50 w LM MoS2 & LM MOS
1970 VW Peking - Paris Rally Beetle HDEO 15W40 w LM MoS2
1987 Porsche 924S HDEO 15W40
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